Nagy’s Dink and Dunk Offense Frustrated Marquise Goodwin

remydat

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I agree with that buy you still have to take a deep shot, to keep them honest. Go Max protect and take a shot or two. You cant keep throwing short without making them respect a deep pass.

I am not saying they shouldn't have gone deep. I am saying the fact they didn't really had little impact on the game as they still had plenty of chances to put points on the board if the players had executed basic plays. This isn't either/or. Them going deep more would not have changed the game because the players were fucking up basic and easier plays that were open so I think it is a bit of wishful thinking to pretend they would be able to throw successfully into the heart of the D.

This is really a case of because it is a hypothetical, we can pretend it would have worked. More likely Dalton throws some picks into the heart of the D and then Bears fans bitch and moan about why the Bears didn't take what the defense gave them. It is always going to be the case that whatever the Bears chose when they fuck it up, Bears fans are going to pretend if they had done the other thing, it would have worked.
 

thenewguy

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This simply isn't true. They threw intermediate and deep a decent amount of the time as again Foles and Trubisky combined were 5th in the NFL in deep attempts. The problem is that collectively their completion percentage sucked.

TB - Foles threw intermediate or deep on 31 percent of throws.
Rams - 30%
Saints - 24%
Titans - 23%
Packers - 37%
Packers - 17%
Saints - 37%
I didn't intend to mean it was the same game plan, just a scared game plan. Outside of TB, they were down double digits or not competitive in the games you listed. That's when they started throwing the ball around. The game plan to start in those games were the conservative Nagy crap he always does to try and mimic winning under the Fangio defense.
 

legendxofxlink

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Herbert completed a dozen passes over 15 yards, against one of the best pass rushers in the league. I understand the quick passes, but don’t fucking wait till 4th and 15 to throw down the field.
 

remydat

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I didn't intend to mean it was the same game plan, just a scared game plan. Outside of TB, they were down double digits or not competitive in the games you listed. That's when they started throwing the ball around. The game plan to start in those games were the conservative Nagy crap he always does to try and mimic winning under the Fangio defense.
The first Saints game went to OT. In the Saints playoff game, Trubs threw deep to Wims on the 2nd drive. One was completed and the other was the infamous drop. I think you have created a narrative in your head and will stick to it no matter the evidence.
  • 1st & 10 at CHI 32​

    (3:58 - 1st) (Shotgun) M.Trubisky pass incomplete deep right to J.Wims. Chicago challenged the incomplete pass ruling, and the play was REVERSED. (Shotgun) M.Trubisky pass deep right to J.Wims pushed ob at NO 40 for 28 yards (J.Jenkins). Pass 26, YAC 2
  • 1st & 10 at NO 40​

    (3:42 - 1st) (Shotgun) M.Trubisky pass incomplete deep middle to J.Wims. CHI 32-D.Montgomery was in the wildcat, lateraled to 84-C.Patterson, who pitched backwards to 10-M.Trubisky, who threw deep.

I also forget the Colts team where they threw intermediate or deep 31% of the time.
 

CHIBEAR

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This simply isn't true. They threw intermediate and deep a decent amount of the time as again Foles and Trubisky combined were 5th in the NFL in deep attempts. The problem is that collectively their completion percentage sucked.

TB - Foles threw intermediate or deep on 31 percent of throws.
Rams - 30%
Saints - 24%
Titans - 23%
Packers - 37%
Packers - 17%
Saints - 37%

Last year you had a lot of teams that clamped down on the short stuff and forced the Bears to attack deep counting on Foles and Trubisky fucking it up. They usually did.

Last year we didn't even have a run game at all before the bye .

Foles threw the ball because we literally couldn't do anything else .

After the bye we ran the ball very well which opened up things for mitch but he couldn't read the field and thus the run game was wasted.

It seems to me that we did not get the type of play calling and performance you would expect from a veteran qb with that type of run support . It seems Nagy had a plan A(run Monty) but no plan in to take advantage of what happens if plan A actually worked . Hes in over his head
 

remydat

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Last year we didn't even have a run game at all before the bye .

Foles threw the ball because we literally couldn't do anything else .

After the bye we ran the ball very well which opened up things for mitch but he couldn't read the field and thus the run game was wasted.

It seems to me that we did not get the type of play calling and performance you would expect from a veteran qb with that type of run support . It seems Nagy had a plan A(run Monty) but no plan in to take advantage of what happens if plan A actually worked . Hes in over his head

manipulation.jpg


Another goalpost moved. The original argument was that we scared. That is proven wrong by the data. Argument then changes to well we were scared against good teams. That is proven wrong by the data. Now it's well we threw deep but that's only because we didn't have a good run game.

SMH!
 

Probie2429

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The quick passes were moving the chains and controlling the clock. That’s how the team needs to play.

What they should have done more of was feed Montgomery who would have gone for 200 with the number of touches he should have received.

The reason they lost was that the defense gave up too many big plays which forced the offense to abandon the run game too early.
 

Chicagosports89

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manipulation.jpg


Another goalpost moved. The original argument was that we scared. That is proven wrong by the data. Argument then changes to well we were scared against good teams. That is proven wrong by the data. Now it's well we threw deep but that's only because we didn't have a good run game.

SMH!
Wasn't nagys problem that he was running too much deep stuff and the line was getting foles killed because of it?

I still think it is a mistake to go all short like he did against the rams. At least use the speed on some crossers with other guys clearing out deep. It was a pretty weak gameplan.
 

Romo27

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I agree with that buy you still have to take a deep shot, to keep them honest. Go Max protect and take a shot or two. You cant keep throwing short without making them respect a deep pass.
This. Nagy's playcalling telegraphed to the Rams that they only needed to defend 15 yards deep. That makes it much easier to play defense. Air it out a few times to loosen things up in the flat.
 

thenewguy

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This. Nagy's playcalling telegraphed to the Rams that they only needed to defend 15 yards deep. That makes it much easier to play defense. Air it out a few times to loosen things up in the flat.
That's why Ramsey was near the LOS making plays all game. At least use Mooney(who beat him last year) or Robinson to bring him and even a safety away from the play.
 

Too easy

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No wonder he throws the ball 69 times a game bc they’re just runs or the equivalent of a held decent one.

how can You have the fastest wr core in football and still average 5.4 yards per catch. Didn’t see the game but I would be good money that the first pass was a bubble screen? Was I right?

Nagy doesn’t understand basic statistics the percentage of completion from 0-7 yards is like 62% if you take out drops. Past ten yards is like 5% less!!!! If you have 3 downs and you run one then all you have to do is complete one of the next two. Here’s a novel idea Nagy, how about getting first downs on first down!?!? You don’t have to use all of them.

One last thing, you have to throw a minimum of 3 bombs a game to keep them honest, I’d throw more like 5. One of those will be a penalty. Even if it’s intercepted which is rarely the case then it’s as good as a punt. You take a dive to seven step drop pump or look off the safety and then throw it. The receiver will covered the fist third of that route bc dbacks are starting way in front of receiver so you can’t go by eyesight. It’s a called play to a certain wide out. It works as long as the whole throwing it is at his limit of throwing and the speed guy can catch.

Graham was an ignorant keep over fuller, just like trevathan was an stupid too. I think they faked that bum knee so ogletree could start next to quan.

did anyone okay well in that game cuz no score says no!
 

ChiKhan

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Herbert completed a dozen passes over 15 yards, against one of the best pass rushers in the league. I understand the quick passes, but don’t fucking wait till 4th and 15 to throw down the field.
Nagy on 4th and 15 didn't even have a route that went passed or at 15 yards lmao. Playcalling so chit they won't see it coming.
 

remydat

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Wasn't nagys problem that he was running too much deep stuff and the line was getting foles killed because of it?

I still think it is a mistake to go all short like he did against the rams. At least use the speed on some crossers with other guys clearing out deep. It was a pretty weak gameplan.

Yeah again I have no problem with saying he could have thrown deep more. I am saying he still had us in position to get points 7 times which is a lot for this offense. I am also saying ad the Rams stayed in umbrella covetage, throwing deep means you throwing into heart of the D and likely wasting downs.

This. Nagy's playcalling telegraphed to the Rams that they only needed to defend 15 yards deep. That makes it much easier to play defense. Air it out a few times to loosen things up in the flat.

Except this isnt true. The Rams continued to protect against the deep pass throughout the game. That was the issue. If they had started shifting to close down the short stuff then you could throw over the top. They never really did that. They just allowed the short stuff and tackled well.

That's why Ramsey was near the LOS making plays all game. At least use Mooney(who beat him last year) or Robinson to bring him and even a safety away from the play.

No Ramsey plays the Star position in that D so it is a hybrid Outside CB/Nickel/LB role. There is no reason for hin to have to follow deep since the Rams usually play the safeties over the top. The role was specifically created so he would be involved in more plays.

 

thenewguy

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Yeah again I have no problem with saying he could have thrown deep more. I am saying he still had us in position to get points 7 times which is a lot for this offense. I am also saying ad the Rams stayed in umbrella covetage, throwing deep means you throwing into heart of the D and likely wasting downs.



Except this isnt true. The Rams continued to protect against the deep pass throughout the game. That was the issue. If they had started shifting to close down the short stuff then you could throw over the top. They never really did that. They just allowed the short stuff and tackled well.



No Ramsey plays the Star position in that D so it is a hybrid Outside CB/Nickel/LB role. There is no reason for hin to have to follow deep since the Rams usually play the safeties over the top. The role was specifically created so he would be involved in more plays.

I'm aware of that, thanks. The offense can help dictate the alignment and use of defensive positioning and the Bears made no effort to do that. They allowed the defense to dictate their offense.

Nagy ran consecutive plays at one point where the key block was Peters to get out to the numbers and take on Ramsey. The next play was a WR screen where the lead blocker was a 175lb WR trying to take on Ramsey. They went as well as you can expect.

The Rams had to defend a small portion of the field the entire game and there was no effort to adjust and make things harder on them.
 

remydat

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I'm aware of that, thanks. The offense can help dictate the alignment and use of defensive positioning and the Bears made no effort to do that. They allowed the defense to dictate their offense.

Nagy ran consecutive plays at one point where the key block was Peters to get out to the numbers and take on Ramsey. The next play was a WR screen where the lead blocker was a 175lb WR trying to take on Ramsey. They went as well as you can expect.

The Rams had to defend a small portion of the field the entire game and there was no effort to adjust and make things harder on them.

No but the Rams did not defend a small portion of the field. They continued to defend the whole field especially deep. There was no point in the game where they defended a small portion of the field.

You are arguing as if the Rams covered the deep stuff, the Bears kept throwing short then the Rams adjusted by closing down the short stuff and leaving gaps in the back for the Bears to exploit. Instead what happened is the Rams covered the deep stuff, the Bears kept throwing short, and the Rams continued to cover the deep stuff. The only way you can get them out of that is to actually score points with the short stuff but the Bears didn't score enough to make the Rams change.

Like what do you think happens if the Bears went deep? The Rams would respond by continuing to defend the deep pass so how does that dictate anything?
 

thenewguy

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No but the Rams did not defend a small portion of the field. They continued to defend the whole field especially deep. There was no point in the game where they defended a small portion of the field.

You are arguing as if the Rams covered the deep stuff, the Bears kept throwing short then the Rams adjusted by closing down the short stuff and leaving gaps in the back for the Bears to exploit. Instead what happened is the Rams covered the deep stuff, the Bears kept throwing short, and the Rams continued to cover the deep stuff. The only way you can get them out of that is to actually score points with the short stuff but the Bears didn't score enough to make the Rams change.

Like what do you think happens if the Bears went deep? The Rams would respond by continuing to defend the deep pass so how does that dictate anything?
Flooding zones, play action, high low the corner, deep outs, double moves(best setup throughout the game), trips with iso matchups on the other side, four vert routes. You know, basic football stuff that every other team the Rams face this year will do.
 

Starion

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Remy bringing some alt fire to this thread!! Props!
I'm on the pissy side of things for once, but appreciate the perspective & facts to back it up Rems.

It really seems like Nagy is playing the 2006 Colts offensive game plan against a great defense, just like they did against the Bears' stellar D in the Superbowl. Won't give up a big play and force 12+ plays without mistakes or turnovers vs. the D's pressure.

Well, tables turned and now it's Nagy's turn facing this situation in a good D. Problem is Dalton is not Payton Manning.
Fields may or may not be ready, but week 1 probably was too early to force feed?? WTH knows. It clearly failed this time with Dalton.
 

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