Nagy regrets benching starters during preseason. won't do it again.

TheWinman

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The best thing about this is that fans will be able to see Mitch versus Foles live, and be able to follow the decision making process rather than it being top secret in some restricted camp setting.

I wonder how much of this is to minimize criticism by the media and fans for one QB over the other.

We will probably be watching Trubisky lose his job on live television in August....like in TWO MONTHS!!!
How cute, you think ANY team cares about media and fan criticism
 

Myk

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It's not revisionist. this offense never put it together in 13 games last year. The only 3 good performances were against WASH, DET twice and DAL.

The Riddler80 was right: starting them in the preseason would not have mattered. It would only have risked injury to defensive starters that we needed to keep our heads marginally at the waterline at 8-8

It's revisionist because it's not what actually happened. People were complaining.
Riddler is wrong in only seeing the W/L record. Same as so many on this board are wrong in judging many players on W/L instead of how they play or how the team plays.
It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game. For 2 years with Nagy we came out flat and stayed flat for a time equal to the preseason. He tried his "player's coach" experiment and it turns out the players don't know what is right. They will always think they're ready, a good coach knows who is ready and doesn't need preseason and who isn't and does.
A QB in his 2nd year, 1st year with the HC doesn't need preseason? BS. If Mitch didn't need preseason we would've grabbed his 5th year and wouldn't have got Foles.
 

Outlaw Josey Cutler

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For 2 years with Nagy we came out flat and stayed flat for a time equal to the preseason.

No in 2018, we came out flat (GB 1st quarter notwithstanding), stayed flat for a few games and then played decent - not great, not terrible.

In 2019, we came out flat offensively and stayed flat for the whole year - only playing well 3x out of 16 against horrible defenses.

A QB in his 2nd year, 1st year with the HC doesn't need preseason? BS. If Mitch didn't need preseason we would've grabbed his 5th year and wouldn't have got Foles.

You still act like preseason in 2019 would have magically changed our record or made Mitch better??

We did not play flat for the first four games and then turn anything on offensively after that, Mitch turned no corner last year outside of WAS, DET and DAL who for some reason did not know how to take away his first reads. ....but this being the internet I presume you too will dig in your heels on this point.
 

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How cute, you think ANY team cares about media and fan criticism

Were you in a coma when Trubisky had the TVs shutoff at Halas Hall? Did you not hear that Eddie Jackson complained about the fans booing Trubisky on a radio show? Did you hear Trubisky got emo when he was booed at that Bulls game?

Obviously, you're wrong like usual.
 

Myk

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No in 2018, we came out flat (GB 1st quarter notwithstanding), stayed flat for a few games and then played decent - not great, not terrible.

In 2019, we came out flat offensively and stayed flat for the whole year - only playing well 3x out of 16 against horrible defenses.



You still act like preseason in 2019 would have magically changed our record or made Mitch better??

We did not play flat for the first four games and then turn anything on offensively after that, Mitch turned no corner last year outside of WAS, DET and DAL who for some reason did not know how to take away his first reads. ....but this being the internet I presume you too will dig in your heels on this point.

Exactly how long do you think preseason is? A game plus 3 more ring a bell?
We came out flatter than we went last year too. Then it was more like parts of the team gave up because other parts just don't get it.

I've said nothing about preseason making Mitch better, but I can guarantee you a lack of preseason games the majority of his young career didn't help make him better.
I'm talking about the team here. This thread is talking about the team. "Nagy regrets benching starters during the preseason, won't do it again." Nothing about Mitch there.

If Mitch actually didn't need preseason his 2nd and 3rd years, 1st and 2nd with Nagy. He's a QB god and we would've picked up his 5th. That's what I actually said, not what your strawman said.
 

Outlaw Josey Cutler

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Exactly how long do you think preseason is? A game plus 3 more ring a bell?

How long is preseason? Uh, ok, that's a weird question to bring up randomly. Preseason for starters is a drive in Game 1, a quarter in Game 2 and a half in Game 3. (maybe 3 quarters if uncertainty abounds).

I've said nothing about preseason making Mitch better,

You implied it:

a good coach knows who is ready and doesn't need preseason and who isn't and does.

I'm talking about the team here. This thread is talking about the team. "Nagy regrets benching starters during the preseason, won't do it again." Nothing about Mitch there.

You are the one who first directly referred to Mitch:

A QB in his 2nd year, 1st year with the HC doesn't need preseason? BS.

Anyway you do seem very confused so when you say:

That's what I actually said, not what your strawman said.

I did not create a strawman, you just are lost in the context of the whole topic. You said:

For 2 years with Nagy we came out flat and stayed flat for a time equal to the preseason.

I am saying No, we came out flat and stayed flat the WHOLE YEAR not just 4 games. When you say if Mitch did not need preseason, he would be actually great and a QB god worth signing long term, you aren't wrong but you ARE implying that Mitch would be further progressed last year if he had an extra 3 quarters and change of playing time ..... I disagree strongly.
 

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All the starters on offense should play to get the rust out before the games count. Not because of a silly QB competition. We already know Mitch is the starter and Foles will take over before mid season if Trubisky is not playing good. If the offense falters then Mitch and Foles will too. The real QB competition will be in practice against our starting D, not some one else's third stringers.

Not sure why you think they would be playing against 3rd stringers. Your logic here is faulty.
 

Outlaw Josey Cutler

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Not sure why you think they would be playing against 3rd stringers. Your logic here is faulty.

I think he meant vanilla game planning. Whatever QBs do (good, bad or inbetween) vs. opposing defenses in the preseason needs to be taken with a huge amount of salt imo. Lack of preseason is way down the list of problems for Nagy ... I fear Nagy has no ability to truly out-coach an opposing Defensive Coordinator regularly and, as a playcaller, will end up closer to Chip Kelley than Andy Reid on the spectrum of ability to produce effectively year in and year out.
 

remydat

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How does one distinguish between coming out flat vs simply not being good?

Trubs could have played 4 preseason games and he still would suck because he doesnt understand the offense or how to consistently read defenses.

The only way we would not have come out flat is if Nagy had dumbed down the O from the start but each year he put in a fuck ton and then had to dial it back. That is the bigger cause of the slow start more than anything.

There were reports of Trubs struggling in camp and instead of dialing things back, Nagy downplayed the struggles.

Nagy has Pete Carroll syndrome. Instead of realistically assessing the strengths and weaknesses of the team, he is overly optimistic of his own players and his own ability to coach them up.
 

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Why is this about Trubs that looked bad in virtually all games last year? Look at units that play well in a year the team was good and which games they were flat in. Mitch was bad at all times last year and sporadic in 2018 so a poor barometer for this. Also, we were very healthy in 2018 and had critical personnel losses in 2019.

In 2018, 3 of the 4 losses were after extended layoffs or the opener and happened to be the 4 games that the D gave up the most points. The schedule outlier was the Patriots that was a ST loss as much as anything else. That's not to say this is all on the D either as then O needs to sustain drives but this team did look flat coming off longer rests in 2018.

Who could tell what was up last year other than the team being healthy in week one? One game does not make a trend but it did (sort of) extend the 2018 one.

Nagy wouldn't bring this up and change his ideas about it unless he noticed the team was flat out of the preseason. It has nothing to do with Mitch who is a poor barometer for anything until he finds some consistency. Nagy said this after we got Foles, not before. This is not about protecting Trubisky.

Is this 'proof' of anything? Of course not. Not enough data points but I'm happy that Nagy is addressing something I personally perceived as an issue before we have more of those data points.
 
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Noonthirtyjoe

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Not sure why you think they would be playing against 3rd stringers. Your logic here is faulty.
My logic is dead on. The QB competition will be decided in practice against a starting def, not in some meaningless preseason game against either backups or a vanilla def that is not game planning. No team we face in the preseason will see our starting defense for more then a few plays and even then we won't be game planning.
 

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My logic is dead on. The QB competition will be decided in practice against a starting def, not in some meaningless preseason game against either backups or a vanilla def that is not game planning. No team we face in the preseason will see our starting defense for more then a few plays and even then we won't be game planning.

Your story has changed. You said 3rd string D. Now you changed to vanilla D.

Your premise is also wrong because a lot of teams do in fact gameplan a bit particularly the 3rd preseason game which is why Denny Green said in his famous they are who we thought they were speech referenced the fact they outplayed the Bears in the 3rd preseason game.
 

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Why is this about Trubs that looked bad in virtually all games last year? Look at units that play well in a year the team was good and which games they were flat in.

My take on this is that the offensive starters should be playing snaps in preseason except Allen Robinson. There's a QB competition, no clear starter at TE yet, no franchise RB yet...maybe about two guys on the o-line who are keepers.

I'm not saying they should play an abundance, but there's nothing wrong with 3 quarters of football over 4 games. (16 quarters.)
 

Noonthirtyjoe

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Your story has changed. You said 3rd string D. Now you changed to vanilla D.

Your premise is also wrong because a lot of teams do in fact gameplan a bit particularly the 3rd preseason game which is why Denny Green said in his famous they are who we thought they were speech referenced the fact they outplayed the Bears in the 3rd preseason game.
Your wrong twice
 

remydat

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Your wrong twice

No you said third stringers. Outlaw threw you a bone and mentioned vanilla game planning and suddenly you start mentioning vanilla game planning only after Outlaw said it.

All the starters on offense should play to get the rust out before the games count. Not because of a silly QB competition. We already know Mitch is the starter and Foles will take over before mid season if Trubisky is not playing good. If the offense falters then Mitch and Foles will too. The real QB competition will be in practice against our starting D, not some one else's third stringers.

And here is a former NFL lineman saying gameplanning for the 3rd preseason game used to be the norm. Are you new to football?


Now, many teams aren’t even playing starters in the third preseason game at all. And if you’re not playing the starters, you’re less inclined to spend time gameplanning for this week, which used to be the norm.

The third preseason game was treated as a dress rehearsal with some gameplanning so the offense and defense were more prepared. When you’re more prepared, you play fast and it’s easier to evaluate the play on the field. Without as many starters playing in Week 3 now, it’s harder to judge what happens.



So you're (not your) wrong twice.
 

Myk

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How long is preseason? Uh, ok, that's a weird question to bring up randomly. Preseason for starters is a drive in Game 1, a quarter in Game 2 and a half in Game 3. (maybe 3 quarters if uncertainty abounds).

Shocking 4 weeks.



You implied it:

In other words you created a strawman. Whether that's because you believe I said it or are trolling, it's all you, dude.




You are the one who first directly referred to Mitch:

He's part of the team. He's the most blantant part of the team who shouldn't have been sitting out any game reps he could get.




I am saying No, we came out flat and stayed flat the WHOLE YEAR not just 4 games. When you say if Mitch did not need preseason, he would be actually great and a QB god worth signing long term, you aren't wrong but you ARE implying that Mitch would be further progressed last year if he had an extra 3 quarters and change of playing time ..... I disagree strongly.

Playing bad is not the same as coming out flat.

There's that implying again. If you're reading implications into something you are creating a strawman and/or trolling. Either read and comprehend what is said or don't. If you want to discuss a different topic, even if you put the blame on some unknown entity to argue against, go for it. But when you start blaming a specific person for saying something they didn't because you imagine that's what they meant you are creating a strawman.

Go ahead and strongly disagree with yourself.

It's not whether or not Trubisky would've been any better from playing 2 more preseasons. It's the Nagy thought that young QB didn't NEED preseason, or the team around him.
 

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My take on this is that the offensive starters should be playing snaps in preseason except Allen Robinson. There's a QB competition, no clear starter at TE yet, no franchise RB yet...maybe about two guys on the o-line who are keepers.

I'm not saying they should play an abundance, but there's nothing wrong with 3 quarters of football over 4 games. (16 quarters.)
I think other than 1 or 2 guys all the starters should play 1/2 game in the 2nd to last preseason game plus maybe 1 drive in the 2nd half. It's more than just individual reps for me. They need to play as a team.
 

Noonthirtyjoe

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No you said third stringers. Outlaw threw you a bone and mentioned vanilla game planning and suddenly you start mentioning vanilla game planning only after Outlaw said it.



And here is a former NFL lineman saying gameplanning for the 3rd preseason game used to be the norm. Are you new to football?


Now, many teams aren’t even playing starters in the third preseason game at all. And if you’re not playing the starters, you’re less inclined to spend time gameplanning for this week, which used to be the norm.

The third preseason game was treated as a dress rehearsal with some gameplanning so the offense and defense were more prepared. When you’re more prepared, you play fast and it’s easier to evaluate the play on the field. Without as many starters playing in Week 3 now, it’s harder to judge what happens.



So you're (not your) wrong twice.
No I'm right twice
Starters used to play a half in the third preseason game. There was no real game planing just a very basic game with trying to not show your hand on either side of the ball. It meant nothing. And for third stringers what I meant is they won't be playing a real defense with a win or loss on the line. They will not see the other teams best. My point was picked up on by others but you focused on a word and not the meaning of the thought.
 

remydat

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No I'm right twice
Starters used to play a half in the third preseason game. There was no real game planing just a very basic game with trying to not show your hand on either side of the ball. It meant nothing. And for third stringers what I meant is they won't be playing a real defense with a win or loss on the line. They will not see the other teams best. My point was picked up on by others but you focused on a word and not the meaning of the thought.

Except a former NFL OL said there was gameplanning so no you are wrong. I said they gameplan a bit. You tried to claim they don't game plan at all. That is simply an exaggeration and wrong.

Ok third stringers and not seeing the other's team's best are two completely different things. You can't use words incorrectly then claim I am wrong for reading the words you used.

But I am sorry next time I will consult Professor X to grasp the meaning of your thoughts since you struggle with using words properly.

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