O-Line above all is the main issue

[CHIBEAR]

Ryan was pressured on 13 of 40 dropbacks or 33% which is better than the Colts did to the Bears. A lot of that was also towards the end of game where it really mattered.

Agree on getting pressure without blitzing but others QBs like Minshew faced the same issue and handled it much better. This is the NFL. You will get pressured sometimes. There was nothing the Colts did that was so hard to overcome. Foles just shit the bed.

Minshew was coming of a summer of taking all the reps .

Foles took over a team that lost its 3rd best offensive player who just so happened to be its most versatile . This was essentially game one for him without the 4 weeks of reps Minshew got.

Now that doesn't mean he didnt play poorly but hes nowhere as disappointing as the Oline who we were talking up the first 3 games as maybe having turned a corner. These are literally his first live passes since last November and its gonna take more than simply 5-6 practices to find his rhythm.

 

[sevvy]

Our left tackle has no business being in the NFL. And neither does our head coach. Which is the bigger issue?

 

[Chris Sojka]

The Colts were able to get pressure consistently with just 4 guys which allows them to sit back in their zones and force everything in front of them . There was not 5 guys coming and he didnt get knocked down but they were forcing him off his spots and rushing his throws quite frequently .

Next Gen stats shows the average distance when the qb throws' to be around 4.5 yards For Mitch the first 3 games it averaged around 4-5 yards which goes with your post but last game three of the four Colts pas rushers were all under 4 . It would be like saying the Bears didnt get any pressure on Matt Ryan the week before .

He didnt pay well but the Oline most certainly played bad thats not an excuse just a fact.

We also have to take into account this being the first game without Cohen and the offense needed that matchup.

I explained this 5 times before the game Sunday.

A running QB changes the way teams pass rush. If a player can escape edge rushers cannot make an inside move or go long with an outside move because it creates a huge running lane. You simply have to collapse the pocket on running QBs and give him very little room to escape. Pushing the Olinenan back into his QB doesn’t allow him to point his feet and creates inaccuracy. This is why Mitch will always have more time than Foles. it’s also why the line looks better with Mitch as QB.

 

[Chris Sojka]

Our left tackle has no business being in the NFL. And neither does our head coach. Which is the bigger issue?

I think the LT really fucks the stubborn HC. He wants to pass protect 40 times a game but Leno would get beat like a drum if they started trying to throw downfield like that.

Remember these words. “Mitch is better rolling out”. “Why isn’t Mitch rolled out more if he’s comfortable doing that.”

He’s rolling right, the opposite direction of where he’s almost certain he can’t throw it.

“He has problems throwing left?” And “Why is he so inaccurate to his left.”

Is any of this starting to make sense? If Leno is getting bulldozed into the pocket the guy can’t use proper technique to throw left. He has to step forward or throw right.

NFL defenses know this. Chicago fans and the media don’t. I guess it’s more entertaining if you still have hope. And this business is half football, half entertainment.

 

[dennehy]

Green + Boyd + Higgins + Ross >>> Robinson + Mooney + Miller + Wims
Mixon + Bernard >> Montgomery + Nall

yeah he has better skill players.. that’s actually a lot of firepower compared to what the bears are working with. If all those players were on the same team only 1 bears players would be a starter

Not really. Robinson is the best of the entire WR group. Green had been woefully bad, average less than 8 ypc and under 30 yards per game. He's averaging less than 4 yards per target. You also left off the TEs, where Drew Sample is terrible and they don't really have anyone else. Boyd is good, Higgins is pretty good. John Ross has caught two passes for seven yards on the year, while the Bears had Cohen up until game 3. If you look at everything at best it's slight advantage for Cincinnati.

Bears have a better OL, so Bears likely better overall.

 

[remydat]

Nagy sucks because Foles was terrible... or Foles was terrible which made Nagy look like a shitty playcaller. Still a mystery why the QBs can’t play well in his system given ones a proven SB champion.

Also Foles knows the system. Nagy knows Foles is capable. It’s the 10 other guys maybe? Or a combination of the players that suck?

Again the offense sucked before Trubisky. Historically shitty teams from the franchises history. Yet Trubisky was expected to be the guy that fixed it?! Destined to fail

There were times when the playcalling was the reason for the O sucking and there were times when it was on Foles. On the FG drive for example, Foles flat out missed a wide opeb WR on 3rd down likely costing us 4 points. In critical moments Foles just missed throws he would normally make. Not because of Nagy, not becaude of the OL but becaude he fucked it up.

The world isnt as simple as you make it out to be. It is never just one person's fault. Further it was just one game. It is too early to form broad conclusions yet beyond the fact everyone can do their job better.

I think the LT really fucks the stubborn HC. He wants to pass protect 40 times a game but Leno would get beat like a drum if they started trying to throw downfield like that.

Remember these words. “Mitch is better rolling out”. “Why isn’t Mitch rolled out more if he’s comfortable doing that.”

He’s rolling right, the opposite direction of where he’s almost certain he can’t throw it.

“He has problems throwing left?” And “Why is he so inaccurate to his left.”

Is any of this starting to make sense? If Leno is getting bulldozed into the pocket the guy can’t use proper technique to throw left. He has to step forward or throw right.

NFL defenses know this. Chicago fans and the media don’t. I guess it’s more entertaining if you still have hope. And this business is half football, half entertainment.

Again the premise is just wrong. We threw a ton last year with Trubs. As I already proved we throw deep more than any other team this year. The problem is Trubs sucked hitting guys deep. NFL defenses knew Trubs struggled throwing deep. So you are trying to blame others for Trubs sucking. His inability to hit guys deep was largely down to his own failings.

Mitch rolls right because he is right handed. It is easier for a QB to throw on the move rolling to the side of his handedness hence why most teams largely do the same thing. It would also be stupid to roll a QB left and force him to throw on to move across his body when he is as inaccurate and inconsistent as Mitch. So you are inventing a cause based on your faulty logic.

 

[remydat]

Minshew was coming of a summer of taking all the reps .

Foles took over a team that lost its 3rd best offensive player who just so happened to be its most versatile . This was essentially game one for him without the 4 weeks of reps Minshew got.

Now that doesn't mean he didnt play poorly but hes nowhere as disappointing as the Oline who we were talking up the first 3 games as maybe having turned a corner. These are literally his first live passes since last November and its gonna take more than simply 5-6 practices to find his rhythm.

Foles still had reps. Just with the 2nd team. His first live passes were against the Falcons not the Colts and he looked good. He just shit the bed it happens. The OL sucked but the point here is not every problem is tied to just one thing. This was a collective failure.

 

[Urlacher_24]

Foles still had reps. Just with the 2nd team. His first live passes were against the Falcons not the Colts and he looked good. He just shit the bed it happens. The OL sucked but the point here is not every problem is tied to just one thing. This was a collective failure.

Mitch and foles split reps with the 1 st stringers in camp for the competition. They each got the same amount of reps per Nagy.

 

[Bearly]

Up until the last 10 days or so of camp.

 

[Bearly]

There were times when the playcalling was the reason for the O sucking and there were times when it was on Foles. On the FG drive for example, Foles flat out missed a wide opeb WR on 3rd down likely costing us 4 points. In critical moments Foles just missed throws he would normally make. Not because of Nagy, not becaude of the OL but becaude he fucked it up.

The world isnt as simple as you make it out to be. It is never just one person's fault. Further it was just one game. It is too early to form broad conclusions yet beyond the fact everyone can do their job better.



Again the premise is just wrong. We threw a ton last year with Trubs. As I already proved we throw deep more than any other team this year. The problem is Trubs sucked hitting guys deep. NFL defenses knew Trubs struggled throwing deep. So you are trying to blame others for Trubs sucking. His inability to hit guys deep was largely down to his own failings.

Mitch rolls right because he is right handed. It is easier for a QB to throw on the move rolling to the side of his handedness hence why most teams largely do the same thing. It would also be stupid to roll a QB left and force him to throw on to move across his body when he is as inaccurate and inconsistent as Mitch. So you are inventing a cause based on your faulty logic.

All spot on. I was hoping Mitch got himself more sorted before this year. Healthy, more prepared and better trajectories/balanced in his throws etc. It actually all happened but it wasn't enough. He got the early nod due to having a stronger arm and better mobility while showing improvement in his weak areas. Still too many misses and easily fooled by mixed coverages. Doesn't help you if you miss or don't throw on time to the right spot anyway.

All that said, I'm a masochist and haven't completely given up on Mitch.

 

[Urlacher_24]

Up until the last 10 days or so of camp.

Correct the last week Mitch got them all in preparation for Detroit.

 

[The_Shadow]

Unlike successful teams who invest in top tier olinemen, the Bears shoot for adequate. Time and again. Year in, year out.

 

[Chicago4Life]

Unlike successful teams who invest in top tier olinemen, the Bears shoot for adequate. Time and again. Year in, year out.

not sure what your trying to say here. i dont think anyone tries to get subpar olinemen...
if your saying they need to invest high picks, thats one thing but even that you need proper scouting and evaluation...

both daniels and whitehair were 2nd rd picks
in retrospect should the bears have taken tunsil over floyd? probably but it is what it is...
pace and company need to do a better job on hitting on offensive prospects...they've done a good job on defense but on offense it really hurt...the trubisky pick and trade up and shaheen pick really hurt the offense.

 

[msadows]

not sure what your trying to say here. i dont think anyone tries to get subpar olinemen...
if your saying they need to invest high picks, thats one thing but even that you need proper scouting and evaluation...

both daniels and whitehair were 2nd rd picks
in retrospect should the bears have taken tunsil over floyd? probably but it is what it is...
pace and company need to do a better job on hitting on offensive prospects...they've done a good job on defense but on offense it really hurt...the trubisky pick and trade up and shaheen pick really hurt the offense.

At that point leno was coming off a relatively good first season of starting. Doubt also that one of the most conservative franchises in the league would be willing to sign a dude who just had a video of him smoking pot leak. That just screams questionable character. Pace just had the McDonald signing blow up in his face, so I don't think he was ready to take more risks with questionable character players.

He's always been absolutely miserable as far as a run blocker, but up until last year was more than serviceable in the passing game. Not really sure what happened, seems like his athleticism dropped off the moment he decided to get engaged.

 

[Chicago4Life]

At that point leno was coming off a relatively good first season of starting. Doubt also that one of the most conservative franchises in the league would be willing to sign a dude who just had a video of him smoking pot leak. That just screams questionable character. Pace just had the McDonald signing blow up in his face, so I don't think he was ready to take more risks with questionable character players.

He's always been absolutely miserable as far as a run blocker, but up until last year was more than serviceable in the passing game. Not really sure what happened, seems like his athleticism dropped off the moment he decided to get engaged.

ok forget tunsil, still coulda taken decker and been set at LT, coulda taken kelly at center and kept whitehair at guard or vice versa, bottom line is pace sucks at drafting offense, while players evolve and adapt to gain an edge, leno has remained still and now has sunk to the bottom. For a man thats over 300lbs, its suprising how often he's on the ground.

 

[Chris Sojka]

There were times when the playcalling was the reason for the O sucking and there were times when it was on Foles. On the FG drive for example, Foles flat out missed a wide opeb WR on 3rd down likely costing us 4 points. In critical moments Foles just missed throws he would normally make. Not because of Nagy, not becaude of the OL but becaude he fucked it up.

The world isnt as simple as you make it out to be. It is never just one person's fault. Further it was just one game. It is too early to form broad conclusions yet beyond the fact everyone can do their job better.



Again the premise is just wrong. We threw a ton last year with Trubs. As I already proved we throw deep more than any other team this year. The problem is Trubs sucked hitting guys deep. NFL defenses knew Trubs struggled throwing deep. So you are trying to blame others for Trubs sucking. His inability to hit guys deep was largely down to his own failings.

Mitch rolls right because he is right handed. It is easier for a QB to throw on the move rolling to the side of his handedness hence why most teams largely do the same thing. It would also be stupid to roll a QB left and force him to throw on to move across his body when he is as inaccurate and inconsistent as Mitch. So you are inventing a cause based on your faulty logic.

I totally agree Bud. But the reason he liked to roll right so often and couldn't throw left is because he couldn't step up in the pocket to his left, it is probably eaten up from a retreating tackle who does not play on an island. You need an above average LT to play on an island and have faith that he can stand guys up once in a while. Something that rarely happens if ever in the case of leno. That's ok but your playcaller and QB have to adjust. It's your problem to figure out at this point. You and everyone else can scream for a new QB all you want but Trevor Lawrence isn't coming in here and feeling comfortable with Leno protecting his blind side. Chances are you see a 62% completion percentage and 5 more ppg average. But my guess is the struggles continue no matter who you throw back there at this point.

The top LTs go 1st overall. Not RB, not TE, not WR, Not G, Not C. Only the LT the DE and the QB unless something freakish happens. THE DE rushes the LT because he protects the QBs blind side. Those three things are important for a reason. If you think Leno is doing a good job, that is because your eyes no longer know what good LTs look like because you have watched shitty ones in Chicago for 20 years.

 

[WindyCity]

The Leno and Massie deal we’re fine, they were coming off good years at the time.

The problem is never drafting anyone to develop and take over. Now we have mediocre OTs and no one to turn to. Even a 4th round pick who has been learning for a year or 2 would be better than nothing.

 

[Chris Sojka]

The Leno and Massie deal we’re fine, they were coming off good years at the time.

The problem is never drafting anyone to develop and take over. Now we have mediocre OTs and no one to turn to. Even a 4th round pick who has been learning for a year or 2 would be better than nothing.

We couldn't... we needed other things... again Pace only get so many draft picks and only 1.6% out of 254 pan out. It's impossible considering what he started with to expect perennial playoff team.

They style of offense also aided Leno and Massie. They don't fit in a high flying gunslinger offense. Nagy was a QB, he wants to throw the ball 50 times a game. That's never gonna happen with Leno and Massie.

The Chiefs have Fisher and Schwartz, both extremely talented since they came in the league. That's how you get a great downfield passing game.

The Texans went out and got Tunsil for a reason.

You aren't going to pass like that with a 6th round development talent LT or a 340lb run blocking RT. This is the NFL lets all be a little more realistic with our expectations. If they were capable of protecting like that we'd go down field, we'd call downfield passes, we score more points, they'd be in the probowl. They aren't going to play like 1st round talents................ EVER

 

[remydat]

Mitch and foles split reps with the 1 st stringers in camp for the competition. They each got the same amount of reps per Nagy.

I said he still got reps with the 2nd team. So I was acknowledging they split reps with the 1st team. I was just saying he then also split reps with the 2nd team so he still ultimately had a full camp. It is not like after playing with the first team he only got half the work in. They both were still working with the 2nd team as well.

 

[remydat]

All spot on. I was hoping Mitch got himself more sorted before this year. Healthy, more prepared and better trajectories/balanced in his throws etc. It actually all happened but it wasn't enough. He got the early nod due to having a stronger arm and better mobility while showing improvement in his weak areas. Still too many misses and easily fooled by mixed coverages. Doesn't help you if you miss or don't throw on time to the right spot anyway.

All that said, I'm a masochist and haven't completely given up on Mitch.

I said before the season started that the best way to salvage Mitch was to have him sit behind a QB that actually knows what he is doing out there and see if he can learn. So if Mitch was every going to pull his head out of his ass, this period of being able to watch and observe is critical IMO.