OC as HC?

[Starion]

We just had an OC think he could ALSO be a good HC and OC at the same time. He sucked at trying to be both. Nagy was also an OC in name only 'til the last 6 meh games with KC and ZERO experience as a HC at any level.


Now, these new candidates are at least good OCs, which is a start but...


Do we really want to try this again or is it pretty normal having OC becoming a successful first time HC?


Shouldn't the next guy actually have experience as a HC???
How many currently successful HCs were OCs before, and are they still doing both?
Did they just get "yes men" as their OCs or did they hand off to capable OCs while they focus on being a good HC?

 

[Rise]

You want a Kyle Shanahan or Sean mcvay type ideally if you can find one. I agree it’s a huge step up from just OC, not many can do it successfully.

 

[jtreal3]

You want a Kyle Shanahan or Sean mcvay type ideally if you can find one. I agree it’s a huge step up from just OC, not many can do it successfully.

Sure. but those type aren't that easy to find

There's way more Nagy's than Shannahan's

 

[Rise]

Sure. but those type aren't that easy to find

There's way more Nagy's than Shannahan's

that’s why I wrote “not many can do it successfully”

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

We just had an OC think he could ALSO be a good HC and OC at the same time. He sucked at trying to be both. Nagy was also an OC in name only 'til the last 6 meh games with KC and ZERO experience as a HC at any level.


Now, these new candidates are at least good OCs, which is a start but...


Do we really want to try this again or is it pretty normal having OC becoming a successful first time HC?


Shouldn't the next guy actually have experience as a HC???
How many currently successful HCs were OCs before, and are they still doing both?
Did they just get "yes men" as their OCs or did they hand off to capable OCs while they focus on being a good HC?

I think just because one way failed doesn't mean it was the wrong idea - just the wrong person.

I think the main issue is that the league for a while has valued the "hot" guy. Maybe they have an offense that just exploded on the scene, and everyone falls in love with it. But when you look at the guy running that scheme, they just haven't been in the league a while. No one has had a chance to dissect that offense and defend against it. No history with that coach usually - just some new hot name. No sign of that coach overcoming struggles, or needing to adjust, or anything showing that this coach has a deeper understanding of their craft.

And I think because of this, many of these so called "gurus" fail.

I think there is something to be said for pursing experience - not necessarily prior head coaching experience, but someone with just a lot of experience coaching, and coaching in various facets, in different and various systems instead of just one, just to make sure the candidate has a broader understanding of coaching, of player utilization, of different perspectives on what can work, etc.

That ability to be mentally nimble and flexible I think is one of the most underrated coaching qualities when teams go out to look for a new coach.

 

[Visionman]

If he can be a really good OC, then it has potential to work. Takes delegating other tasks though.

Nagy’s problem is he wasn’t really good at anything except talking…

 

[ThatGuyRyan]

Anything will be better than Nagy's "scheme" or whatever the fuck that was. it got progressively worse every year, I haven't seen anything like it.. John Shoop was a better coordinator, hell Terry Shea was too.

Point is, ANYTHING will be an upgrade at this point.

 

[vinson555]

There is something to be said about getting an HC with experience, it's true that experience pays off but by no means is it the end all be all. More times than not the guy with experience has it because he was fired and let go because he didn't do a good enough job. At the same time you never know if that experience makes it better the second time around. Kind of like with BA in Tampa... though having Brady helps to.

In the end, you want the coach that best gives you a chance to win the superbowl. All you can ask for now.

 

[Starion]

I think there is something to be said for pursing experience - not necessarily prior head coaching experience, but someone with just a lot of experience coaching, and coaching in various facets, in different and various systems instead of just one, just to make sure the candidate has a broader understanding of coaching, of player utilization, of different perspectives on what can work, etc.

That ability to be mentally nimble and flexible I think is one of the most underrated coaching qualities when teams go out to look for a new coach.

Absolutely. Only knowing one system was one of Nagy's many flaws & my fear about these other potential OCs turning HC. Flexibility is important to match the roster as it is & as it changes + to take advantage of opportunities to acquire best talent available. Also helps a HC work well with the new OC and assistants (& players) to harness their ideas & experience.


Kinda why I'm hoping for a HC who's been a HC before, esp. if the OC turned HC odds are shit and McCaskey is the dope who's supposed to sort through that pool of candidates? Lord helps us. He might as well be picking amongst the floating ducks at the carnival.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

Absolutely. Only knowing one system was one of Nagy's many flaws & my fear about these other potential OCs turning HC. Flexibility is important to match the roster as it is & as it changes + to take advantage of opportunities to acquire best talent available. Also helps a HC work well with the new OC and assistants (& players) to harness their ideas & experience.


Kinda why I'm hoping for a HC who's been a HC before, esp. if the OC turned HC odds are shit and McCaskey is the dope who's supposed to sort through that pool of candidates? Lord helps us. He might as well be picking amongst the floating ducks at the carnival.

Even if they haven't been a HC before, I'd like someone who has been around and has experience in various different systems. A broad perspective is important.

 

[CaliBearFan]

This article someone posted on the search thread sold me on Daboll. He sounds like everything we were sold Nagy was going to be.
He made the same mistakes Nagy made early in his career but seems to have learned to become flexible and adaptable with his offense in addition to eventually putting together his own offense instead of just running the systems of his old coaches and forcing those.
He has also learned to give up full control off his offense and take in ideas from coaches and players as well as adapt his offense to his players strengths.
I think he has enough experience in the NFL to handle being a head coach. I am probably off topic a little from the point of this thread but I am really intrigued with Daboll.

How Buffalo's Brian Daboll found his voice and evolved as a coach

In Brian Daboll’s third season with the Bills, Buffalo’s offense has experienced a renaissance that mirrors his own.

theathletic.com

 

[Bears4Ever_34]

I don't care about HC experience, unless their experience resulted in them winning a bunch of games, including the playoffs. Most of these guys that get fired were fired for a reason—they weren't good at their jobs. People like Leslie Frazier and Todd Bowles come to mind here.

As far as the conversation about hiring OC's, I think it is absolutely essential for the Bears to hire an offensive minded HC—this year more than ever, and I'll tell you why:

This hiring that the Bears are about to make will be the single most important hiring this franchise has ever made. That is because they have never drafted a quarterback as talented as Justin Fields before, and given the franchise's history at the position, it makes hiring the right coach THAT much more crucial.

Like it or not, the NFL hiring process will always favor offense over defense because of the value of the quarterback position. The minute your offensive coordinator has any kind of success, he'll be picked up by another team as its head coach. That's just the way it works.

The Bears just can't afford to take any chances with hiring a DC or Special Teams coordinator, because even if that guy picks up a good OC, the minute Justin Fields has any success, that guy is going to be gone, and then you put the kid in a position where he's constantly having to learn new offenses every year or two. That would be brutal for a young quarterback's development.

The fact that the Bears went with this strategy in the last hiring cycle and didn't have success with it, doesn't mean they were wrong for doing it, it just means they hired the wrong offensive guy.

 

[greg23]

If your criteria is HC/OC who has previous HC and offense experience who will implement their system and develop fields then the choices are

Pederson
Caldwell
McDaniels

Of the three...no thanks on Caldwell and id take McDaniels and see if he can't be the guy for the next 10+ years with fields.

 

[dweebs19]

Caldwell has won 2 superbowls with different teams and was probably the best Lions coach in awhile. I actually wouldn't be too mad with him because I'd trust he can get the offense going. My issue with him is that he's on the older side.

As far as McDaniel, the only McDaniels I want is Mike McDaniels

 

[Starion]

I don't care about HC experience, unless their experience resulted in them winning a bunch of games, including the playoffs. Most of these guys that get fired were fired for a reason—they weren't good at their jobs. People like Leslie Frazier and Todd Bowles come to mind here.

As far as the conversation about hiring OC's, I think it is absolutely essential for the Bears to hire an offensive minded HC—this year more than ever, and I'll tell you why:

This hiring that the Bears are about to make will be the single most important hiring this franchise has ever made. That is because they have never drafted a quarterback as talented as Justin Fields before, and given the franchise's history at the position, it makes hiring the right coach THAT much more crucial.

Like it or not, the NFL hiring process will always favor offense over defense because of the value of the quarterback position. The minute your offensive coordinator has any kind of success, he'll be picked up by another team as its head coach. That's just the way it works.

The Bears just can't afford to take any chances with hiring a DC or Special Teams coordinator, because even if that guy picks up a good OC, the minute Justin Fields has any success, that guy is going to be gone, and then you put the kid in a position where he's constantly having to learn new offenses every year or two. That would be brutal for a young quarterback's development.

The fact that the Bears went with this strategy in the last hiring cycle and didn't have success with it, doesn't mean they were wrong for doing it, it just means they hired the wrong offensive guy.

Great points. The HC is more likely to be permanent than the OC.

Also said a few times in the thread that flexibility & experience vs. 1 system is key.


I do still care about HC experience, but maybe I'm still too chapped by Nagy's incompetency in SOOOooo many areas that I'm fearful of an unknown taking the helm as the top dog "leader of men".


Also, Trestman was another non-shiny example of a decent OC who couldn't lead men on the big stage. I feel like in Canada, they lead themselves since they're more transient and always looking to move to the NFL. Once players make it, they can't go any higher and need TRUE ACCOUNTABILITY from a HC, vs. the natural consequences of not getting the call up.

 

[Toast88]

Aiming for a good young offensive mind as your next head coach to guide Justin Fields along should be the goal, even if it didn't work out the last time they tried something similar.

The fact that it didn't work out with a different quarterback and a different head coach doesn't mean you don't try it with another quarterback and another head coach. We could all point to situations around the league where an offensive head coach/young quarterback pairing did work out.

 

[Ralpf]

Caldwell has won 2 superbowls with different teams and was probably the best Lions coach in awhile. I actually wouldn't be too mad with him because I'd trust he can get the offense going. My issue with him is that he's on the older side.

As far as McDaniel, the only McDaniels I want is Mike McDaniels

I agree, I think he is the best of the "safe" options (ignoring Harbaugh, that seems to be completely unsubstantiated.)

 

[doctorbear]

People mentioning Jim Caldwell are only looking at head coach record. He directly hurt the teams he coached with his decisions. Those teams also had a ton of talent.

 

[Chicago Staleys]

Don’t blame Nagy.

The front office needs to be calling Josh McDaniels right now!

 

[jerkstore]

What’s the knock on Fangio as HC?