Offseason Junk

TL1961

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Well Mad and Schwindel are not known for their gloves. Schwindel has been improving with help from the Cubs coaching. Mad is a D downgrade from Hoerner who plays GG level 2B D

So it is not brutal. Challenged a bit yes.

O wise downgrade. I would expect Seager to be a 30M tax hit. That would put the Cubs around 120 and still able to add.

rotation wise I expect 1 guy at 25M and the 2nd max 15M. That is a 160-170 budget if the 91M is correct. Which I have not looked into yet. 58M is what they have to do. Rest are picking up At and controlled.

Now if MLB approves the 29.5 YO F/A rule then things might get a bit complicated.
How did you arrive at "it is not brutal"?
Because someone in the org said "Schwindel has been improving"? Yeah, I suppose anyone new will improve, but improve from terrible.

The right side would be a sieve. And Schwindel has a LOT of work to do to cleanly pick throws from infielders. Not trying to bash the guy. Just saying when we went from Gold Glove quality to Frank, it was very obvious how much a quality defender saves the team. (Not that we weren't aware of that.) Frank even had trouble on foul popups, letting some drop.

I know I can harp on D. But everybody looks at offense and discussed pitching, but infield defense can be so crucial. Look at St. Louis three years ago versus now. Lester and Happ were having terrible seasons and in St. Louis they benefited from GGs at the corners and quality in between.

Madrigal hitting singles and allowing singles will not be the addition many assume.
 

CSF77

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Latest On Collective Bargaining Negotiations

By Anthony Franco | October 26, 2021 at 6:26pm CDT

OCTOBER 26: Commissioner Rob Manfred continued to express optimism about the possibility of hammering out a new agreement by December 1. Speaking with reporters (including Chelsea Janes of the Washington Post) before tonight’s opening World Series contest, Manfred called agreeing to a pre-December CBA the “number one priority” for the league.
OCTOBER 25: The current collective bargaining agreement is set to expire on December 1, and the general expectation is that this round of talks could be especially contentious. Ronald Blum of the Associated Press casts further doubt on the likelihood of a new deal being reached by the end of November, writing that neither MLB nor the MLB Players Association believes the other side has “made proposals that will lead toward an agreement” by December 1.
We’ve gotten glimpses of some ideas being kicked around in the early stages of bargaining over the past few months. In mid-August, Evan Drellich and Ken Rosenthal of the Athletic reported the league proposed a lowering of the first luxury tax threshold from this year’s $210MM mark to $180MM. That came with a $100MM salary floor ostensibly designed to limit tanking, although the lowered luxury tax thresholds seemed likely to be a non-starter for the MLBPA. Joel Sherman of the New York Post later added additional context on that proposal, writing that the league offered to eliminate service time considerations in favor of an age-based system that would see players hit free agency once they turned 29 1/2.
With a seemingly large gap to bridge, there’s been increasing speculation about how the potential CBA expiration could impact the offseason. As MLBTR’s Tim Dierkes covered in August, teams were permitted to make moves during the last work stoppage (the 1994-95 players’ strike). Blum writes that MLB may try institute a transactions freeze this winter if the CBA expires without a new agreement. Jeff Passan of ESPN wrote last month that speculation about a transactions freeze could increase the urgency for some players and teams to hammer out contract extensions before December 1. Since then, each of Michael A. Taylor (Royals), Antonio Senzatela (Rockies) and C.J. Cron (Rockies) signed multi-year deals, although Jon Gray rejected an extension offer from Colorado.
Further complicating matters is the ongoing dispute about last year’s pandemic-shortened season. The MLBPA filed a grievance against the league a few months ago, alleging that MLB didn’t make appropriate efforts to play as many games as possible during last year’s 60-game schedule. (Player pay was prorated in 2020, so fewer games meant lower salaries). Blum now reports that the hearing on that grievance began during the final week of September. A timetable for its resolution remains unclear.
 

CSF77

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How did you arrive at "it is not brutal"?
Because someone in the org said "Schwindel has been improving"? Yeah, I suppose anyone new will improve, but improve from terrible.

The right side would be a sieve. And Schwindel has a LOT of work to do to cleanly pick throws from infielders. Not trying to bash the guy. Just saying when we went from Gold Glove quality to Frank, it was very obvious how much a quality defender saves the team. (Not that we weren't aware of that.) Frank even had trouble on foul popups, letting some drop.

I know I can harp on D. But everybody looks at offense and discussed pitching, but infield defense can be so crucial. Look at St. Louis three years ago versus now. Lester and Happ were having terrible seasons and in St. Louis they benefited from GGs at the corners and quality in between.

Madrigal hitting singles and allowing singles will not be the addition many assume.



I really have not looked into Mad's D. Frank is more about reaction time and picking the ball.

We really will not know until this team starts to take shape though.

Now with the new GM I could see some unexpected signings. Being he is a Cleveland guy targeting Kluber and trading for Beiber. Maybe a thing as Cleveland does trade their staff and reloads and this is a opertunity.

I do believe pitching will be the focus and we could see the new depth used to aquire it.
 

Chicagosports89

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I really have not looked into Mad's D. Frank is more about reaction time and picking the ball.

We really will not know until this team starts to take shape though.

Now with the new GM I could see some unexpected signings. Being he is a Cleveland guy targeting Kluber and trading for Beiber. Maybe a thing as Cleveland does trade their staff and reloads and this is a opertunity.

I do believe pitching will be the focus and we could see the new depth used to aquire it.
We have a lot of money. No reason to deplete our minor leagues to acquire pitching for a mediocre team.
 

CSF77

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We have a lot of money. No reason to deplete our minor leagues to acquire pitching for a mediocre team.

How about this:

Happ, Alzolay and 1 hitting prospect for Beiber.

F/A sign Confronto for LF, Correa for SS and Stroman for the #2. Hendricks moved back to #3 with Mills as the 5. Steel splitting them up.

Pen they need to look into a closer. I personally would get Marquez in the pen to help with late innings and see if he has what it takes.

If the DH is approved then maybe Belt for 1B and move Schwindel to DH full time.
 

Chicagosports89

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How about this:

Happ, Alzolay and 1 hitting prospect for Beiber.

F/A sign Confronto for LF, Correa for SS and Stroman for the #2. Hendricks moved back to #3 with Mills as the 5. Steel splitting them up.

Pen they need to look into a closer. I personally would get Marquez in the pen to help with late innings and see if he has what it takes.

If the DH is approved then maybe Belt for 1B and move Schwindel to DH full time.
Why would Cleveland make that trade unless the prospect is Davis? Which why would we do that? Other than that, I'd love all of that.
 

CSF77

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Why would Cleveland make that trade unless the prospect is Davis? Which why would we do that? Other than that, I'd love all of that.

It would not be all about Davis.

Happ most likely gets a small Arb bump.
Alzolay is pre and Cleveland has history of pitching production.

Bat could be anyone. And most Cub hitting prospects are young and still time to develop into a top 100.

Cubs #2 pick is a good case of just that.

Cleveland will do things to keep payroll down and getting 2 active roster and 1 high ceiling makes sense.

Davis would lower the over all value because most of the return value will go into a top 15 prospect.
 

CSF77

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Hypothetically speaking:

Cubs get Correa and sign him to a 13 year deal.

SS depth means little now.

Cleveland now gets a choice of the Cubs top SS prospects and a starting OF from Ohio and a SP that they can hone.

For a ace with 2-3 years of control who will escalate.

Cleveland has done this.
 

TL1961

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I really have not looked into Mad's D. Frank is more about reaction time and picking the ball.

We really will not know until this team starts to take shape though.

Now with the new GM I could see some unexpected signings. Being he is a Cleveland guy targeting Kluber and trading for Beiber. Maybe a thing as Cleveland does trade their staff and reloads and this is a opertunity.

I do believe pitching will be the focus and we could see the new depth used to aquire it.
I have more faith in the new GM (generically speaking - whoever they would have hired) than to think he is going to focus on getting guys from his old team.

Wow, I responded too quickly. I had not even seen that you had gone full "Get the Guardians!
 

CSF77

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I have more faith in the new GM (generically speaking - whoever they would have hired) than to think he is going to focus on getting guys from his old team.

Wow, I responded too quickly. I had not even seen that you had gone full "Get the Guardians!

I haven't really changed much. It is just the new hire does open up a avenue. Shoot I didn't even go over the numbers to even see if it was feasible.

But if I wanted to make a splash. Trade for Beiber for opening day starter. Sign Correa and Stroman would be a major splash and would put the Cubs back on the map.

Shoot I have no clue what will happen. But what should happen? Put together a winning product and give the new team time to self build vs put it on the GM to field a winner with wantabees and lotto tickets.
 

CSF77

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And to be frank. Getting Jed out of the driver's seat of the GM office was the best thing for the his team. We tend to forget the pain of 2012-1014. Crap fest trainwreck and Jed crossing his fingers that his lotto tickets come up.
 

CSF77

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But building via filling the farm and the draft?

You Cub fan.

You know pain and suffering.

Enjoy cookie.

That is the free prediction.
 

CSF77

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I feel sorry for anyone who would pay @CSF77

I feel sorry watching Theo sell the future to keep the wreck floating after 2016. He could have done what other teams do in selling and reloading and actually using his farm for something other than buying.

This year was too little too late.

2017. Team is a train wreck. They sell their future for a #2. Who was not even that.

What if he did not pull that trade? They would have not made it in? No big deal, They would have kept Eloy and Cease. They would have a #2 pitcher in house. They would have a starting LF core hitter.

But what ever water under the bridge.

The fact is successful teams product talent on a constant basis. They do not mass off load and have the worst farm just to keep a failure floating.

Successful teams understand that putting all the eggs into one basket is foolish. Successful teams do not keep doors shut to acquiring talent.

What Jed did last year was a bit sad but necessary. It was a team that won it all before the rest of the league caught up to them and they fell behind due to poor decision making.

I do like the fact that Jed is bringing in outside voices vs staying inhouse. I believe that he understands that it didn't work and doing the same thing over and over will provide the same result.
 

Castor76

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I feel sorry watching Theo sell the future to keep the wreck floating after 2016. He could have done what other teams do in selling and reloading and actually using his farm for something other than buying.

This year was too little too late.

2017. Team is a train wreck. They sell their future for a #2. Who was not even that.

What if he did not pull that trade? They would have not made it in? No big deal, They would have kept Eloy and Cease. They would have a #2 pitcher in house. They would have a starting LF core hitter.

But what ever water under the bridge.

The fact is successful teams product talent on a constant basis. They do not mass off load and have the worst farm just to keep a failure floating.

Successful teams understand that putting all the eggs into one basket is foolish. Successful teams do not keep doors shut to acquiring talent.

What Jed did last year was a bit sad but necessary. It was a team that won it all before the rest of the league caught up to them and they fell behind due to poor decision making.

I do like the fact that Jed is bringing in outside voices vs staying inhouse. I believe that he understands that it didn't work and doing the same thing over and over will provide the same result.

Saying Dylan Cease would be a legit #2 pitcher is one of the crazier things you've ever typed. Using hindsight to say the Cubs lost that trade is easy but also wrong. In 3 seasons, Cease has been a 5 IP per start guy. His K/9 went insane this year, but he was 40-60 IP short of being able to be called a #2 pitcher.

The Cubs already had a bad AVG not too good OBP slugger in left field.

Whether people want to admit it or not, COVID stopped what would and should have been the blow up and rebuild of the team. It ain't easy to do what the Dodgers do. And they still only have the one title in the past decade.
 

CSF77

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Saying Dylan Cease would be a legit #2 pitcher is one of the crazier things you've ever typed. Using hindsight to say the Cubs lost that trade is easy but also wrong. In 3 seasons, Cease has been a 5 IP per start guy. His K/9 went insane this year, but he was 40-60 IP short of being able to be called a #2 pitcher.

The Cubs already had a bad AVG not too good OBP slugger in left field.

Whether people want to admit it or not, COVID stopped what would and should have been the blow up and rebuild of the team. It ain't easy to do what the Dodgers do. And they still only have the one title in the past decade.

Ya you are right.

Hendricks 14-7 4.77 ERA 1.35 WHIP 131 SO
Cease 13-7 3.91 ERA 1.25 WHIP 226 SO

He was better than Hendricks so he would have been staff ace this year.

My bad...

Just because he was #4 on the Sox just means that the Sox are that good and the Cubs are that bad.
 

CSF77

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And people wonder why I go off about upgrading the pitching staff. Hendricks took a nose dive.. Before this year he never put up a year over a 3.50 ERA. It went up to 4.77. Whip had never gone above 1.19. Up to 1.35. BAA Never above .250 up to .278 SO/9 down below 7 for the first time sense 2014.

He is 31 now. Never really had much gas to begin with. Age was a concern with a guy losing anything off his sinker.

I don't feel good with him as a 1 or a 2 going forward.
 

Zvbxrpl

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Happ, Alzolay and 1 hitting prospect for Beiber.
Beiber is under contract for 2 more arb years.

No clue why they'd trade a cost-controlled ace for that package at this point, now if 2022 were a contract year for him and the Indians know he's not sticking around, I think that package puts you in the conversation--maybe not the one that gets him.

If you're Cleveland, you don't even entertain the offer unless Brennan Davis is part of the return. I think this deal gets you someone like German Marquez in return.

If we're talking offseason trades, I dont see the cubs winning a big trade. Just have a weird feeling this is the offseason Jed finally gets Whit Merrifield.
 

Castor76

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Ya you are right.

Hendricks 14-7 4.77 ERA 1.35 WHIP 131 SO
Cease 13-7 3.91 ERA 1.25 WHIP 226 SO

He was better than Hendricks so he would have been staff ace this year.

My bad...

Just because he was #4 on the Sox just means that the Sox are that good and the Cubs are that bad.
Is the view nice from that cherry picker? Yes, Cease had a season that would have made him the best or 2nd best pitcher on a 71 win team. So that makes him a #2 pitcher?

This narrative that the Cubs lost a trade which helped them make the NLCS by giving up two players who wouldn't be in the majors until 2019 and aren't making great contributions to their team even this season is absurd. The Cubs traded expendable assets that are only now even making impact 4 years later. At least make an argument.

We all know the Cubs need pitching.
 

knoxville7

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And people wonder why I go off about upgrading the pitching staff. Hendricks took a nose dive.. Before this year he never put up a year over a 3.50 ERA. It went up to 4.77. Whip had never gone above 1.19. Up to 1.35. BAA Never above .250 up to .278 SO/9 down below 7 for the first time sense 2014.

He is 31 now. Never really had much gas to begin with. Age was a concern with a guy losing anything off his sinker.

I don't feel good with him as a 1 or a 2 going forward.
Lol hendricks is the exact type of pitcher that should age well

perhaps being on a bad 71 win team for the first time(I believe) had something to do with the bad numbers. Some guys play better when there is something to play for…and Kyle is probably one of those type of guys, seeing as how all he’s known as a cub is winning baseball. Perhaps a porous defense up the middle didn’t help any either.
 

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