Ok they're improved, but

RamiTheBullsFan

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...what does this team need to get them over the hump?

I am not worried about HOF-worthy talent or bust. I feel as though the Bulls greatest advantage right now is to utilize their depth and have a balanced offensive attack. And their very good team defense.

I feel as though their major needs looking forward should be to sure-up their defense/rebounding by adding a secondary 5 man who can rebound and defend at a back-up's pay scale; as well as finding a starting 4 player who isn't necessarily an All-Star but is a two-way threat (i.e. Jerami Grant).

If they can find that player who can allow PAW to be a bench unit guy, like he was at Florida State, I believe this Bulls team is a serious title contender under Billy Donovan. If they can find a way of getting their "Sheed to Pistons in '04" type of guy, watch out. Plus, Pat Williams will probably flourish offensively over time (who knows, maybe even sooner than later) going against other teams' second units. It might prompt him to be a more assertive, aggressive scorer. It's understandable he's not considering how young and inexperienced he is.

The question is more than anything: how do the Bulls accomplish something like this without breaking up their core of effective/developing guys of DD-ZL-LB-Vuce-AC-PAW? I'd absolutely hate to see them break up Zach and DeRozan more than anything seeing as how awesome they've been together.
 

Scoot26

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...what does this team need to get them over the hump?
A superstar.
I am not worried about HOF-worthy talent or bust.
Well, you asked what they need. I told you. You're not worried about it, fine. But 39/40 times, the team with the superstar(s) wins the championship.
I feel as though their major needs looking forward should be to sure-up their defense/rebounding by adding a secondary 5 man who can rebound and defend at a back-up's pay scale; as well as finding a starting 4 player who isn't necessarily an All-Star but is a two-way threat (i.e. Jerami Grant).

If they can find that player who can allow PAW to be a bench unit guy, like he was at Florida State, I believe this Bulls team is a serious title contender under Billy Donovan. If they can find a way of getting their "Sheed to Pistons in '04" type of guy, watch out. Plus, Pat Williams will probably flourish offensively over time (who knows, maybe even sooner than later) going against other teams' second units. It might prompt him to be a more assertive, aggressive scorer. It's understandable he's not considering how young and inexperienced he is.

The question is more than anything: how do the Bulls accomplish something like this without breaking up their core of effective/developing guys of DD-ZL-LB-Vuce-AC-PAW? I'd absolutely hate to see them break up Zach and DeRozan more than anything seeing as how awesome they've been together.
This team on paper and so far in action is a solid / good team that fully healthy can make a deep playoff run though. Acquiring an additional big would certainly help matters. They're likely to lose though at some point. Many NBA teams have been built like this Bulls team in the last 40 years, and they've all failed to win a championship outside of the 2004 Pistons.

The lesson of the NBA is to not try and be the 1 exception to the rule, and instead be the actual rule.

For as good as DeMar has been, he's been similar to this before. I do think his start to this season so far is better than his 2017-18 season, but my greater point comes to that Raptors team. It was a solid team. They got swept by LeBron twice, and lost in 6 to LeBron another time. Toronto had enough and traded DeMar for the HOF-worthy talent (or as I call them superstars) in Kawhi Leonard and won the damn Championship.

This season, we're unlikely to get that. For now, just enjoy the ride and see where it takes us.
 

Raskolnikov

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Billups-Hamilton-Prince-Sheed-Wallace is a bad ass team. I don't know why people always say that.

Billups is a Chris Paul level talent from day 1. They have a defensive mvp at the 5. Add 3 all-stars.

Prince is the only non-lock all-star type at their peak but a great role player.
 

Raskolnikov

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Ball with explosive slashers is awesome.

Yeah...add a big or two of different assets, gonna have to move some guards just to keep everyone happy anyway.

They will try some things.
 

knoxville7

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Leave it to @Scoot26 to rain on the parade

of course it’s unlikely that they win it all…they will be one of sixteen playoff teams. So yeah, odds are they aren’t the team that comes out on top

that’s not really the point, though. The question really is…outside of GSW…there’s not really anyone clearly playing better basketball than the bulls. If this remains the case come the trade deadline, the bulls should(and I bet will) be active in trying to improve the roster. Likely a back up big man that can start in a pinch and give quality minutes
 

Scoot26

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Billups-Hamilton-Prince-Sheed-Wallace is a bad ass team. I don't know why people always say that.

Billups is a Chris Paul level talent from day 1. They have a defensive mvp at the 5. Add 3 all-stars.

Prince is the only non-lock all-star type at their peak but a great role player.
:oprah2:

The Pistons had a solid team. I'm not disputing that. But to act like they're the norm to strive for is silly.

Also to bring back.. Chris Paul is at a much higher level than Billups ever was. Billups wasn't even a full starter until ending up in Detroit in 2002-03, he was basically in the 6th man role prior to that. Didn't make the AS team until 2005-2006, when Detroit stopped making the Finals.

Ben Wallace was DPOY, and the best player on Detroit. Ben Wallace never achieved superstar level though.
 

Scoot26

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Leave it to @Scoot26 to rain on the parade

of course it’s unlikely that they win it all…they will be one of sixteen playoff teams. So yeah, odds are they aren’t the team that comes out on top

that’s not really the point, though. The question really is…outside of GSW…there’s not really anyone clearly playing better basketball than the bulls. If this remains the case come the trade deadline, the bulls should(and I bet will) be active in trying to improve the roster. Likely a back up big man that can start in a pinch and give quality minutes
I'm good at that. I like to keep some realism in the air.
 

knoxville7

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The pistons are a bad comparison. This bulls team is nothing like that team. Their top scorer was like 17-18 PPG

bulls have two STARS scoring 25+PPG
 

knoxville7

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I'm good at that. I like to keep some realism in the air.
I mean, I guess. You’re just banking on the odds, and rightfully so. But then that would be the approach/sentiment of almost every team in the league
 

Scoot26

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The pistons are a bad comparison. This bulls team is nothing like that team. Their top scorer was like 17-18 PPG

bulls have two STARS scoring 25+PPG
Different eras.. 2003-2004 is like the king of the defensive era. The average PPG in 2003-04 was 93.9 ppg. It's 107.1 ppg today.

Edit: You're also right though this team is nothing like the 04 Pistons. The 04 Pistons didn't care at all about offense.
 

Scoot26

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I mean, I guess. You’re just banking on the odds, and rightfully so. But then that would be the approach/sentiment of almost every team in the league
Sure, the odds and that NBA has a pretty easy formula to understand, its just hard to actually achieve. And even if you do achieve it, there's no guaranteed your Antetokounmpo is going to beat your Kawhi.
 

Raskolnikov

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:oprah2:

The Pistons had a solid team. I'm not disputing that. But to act like they're the norm to strive for is silly.

Also to bring back.. Chris Paul is at a much higher level than Billups ever was. Billups wasn't even a full starter until ending up in Detroit in 2002-03, he was basically in the 6th man role prior to that. Didn't make the AS team until 2005-2006, when Detroit stopped making the Finals.

Ben Wallace was DPOY, and the best player on Detroit. Ben Wallace never achieved superstar level though.
Billups was a #1 overall PG. He was a big PG, and clutch as fuck.

I dont know what more I could ask of the player he matured into.

I think he's an excellent analyst as well. Smart. Poised. Empathic.
 

knoxville7

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Sure, the odds and that NBA has a pretty easy formula to understand, its just hard to actually achieve. And even if you do achieve it, there's no guaranteed your Antetokounmpo is going to beat your Kawhi.
Guess we shall see. I think the bulls have as much fire power as the rest of the league, sans golden state

I don’t think you can sit and act like the bulls don’t have the star power to compete when they are the only team, I believe, with two top 10 scorers in the league. Plus, Lonzo and Vuc.

The bulls have one of the best starting 5’s in the league. If they add a solid bench big to the mix, they will start to have a good enough bench to really compete with the elite come playoff time
 

Scoot26

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Billups was a #1 overall PG. He was a big PG, and clutch as fuck.

I dont know what more I could ask of the player he matured into.

I think he's an excellent analyst as well. Smart. Poised. Empathic.
Jason Kidd, and then Phoenix Steve Nash were better than Billups. Chris Paul really arrives on the scene come the 2007-2008 season and is already better than Billups at that point.

Billups didn't even make the All-Star team until 2005-2006, after the Pistons were done making Finals. He wasn't an All-Star in years the East was horrific in everything.
 

Scoot26

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Guess we shall see. I think the bulls have as much fire power as the rest of the league, sans golden state

I don’t think you can sit and act like the bulls don’t have the star power to compete when they are the only team, I believe, with two top 10 scorers in the league. Plus, Lonzo and Vuc.

The bulls have one of the best starting 5’s in the league. If they add a solid bench big to the mix, they will start to have a good enough bench to really compete with the elite come playoff time
The Bulls absolutely have star power, they lack superstar power in my opinion.

Zach/DeMar are probably 2nd tier stars if they keep this up the rest of the season. Vuc needs to turn his season around or he's losing star status. Lonzo will never be a star in my honest opinion. Can absolutely be a key vital role player though. We don't need a lineup of 5 All-Stars though.

Again, team can compete, but I'm going to side with historical trends and go down believing they will lose at some point (that some point could even be the Finals!). That's okay for season, because it's great just to be competitive again.
 

knoxville7

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The Bulls absolutely have star power, they lack superstar power in my opinion.

Zach/DeMar are probably 2nd tier stars if they keep this up the rest of the season. Vuc needs to turn his season around or he's losing star status. Lonzo will never be a star in my honest opinion. Can absolutely be a key vital role player though. We don't need a lineup of 5 All-Stars though.

Again, team can compete, but I'm going to side with historical trends and go down believing they will lose at some point (that some point could even be the Finals!). That's okay for season, because it's great just to be competitive again.
I would say they are already at least 2nd tier stars, and if they keep it up the whole season…they will be pushing into tier 1 status

not sure what else they would need to show
25+PPG 5 rebounds a game and 5 assists a game would be nasty out of both of them

then factor in they shoot the ball at a % that is better than most of the other wing players in the tier 1 group

Vuc I agree is 2nd tier at best. Lonzo is still pretty young, it’s hard to say you’ll never see him at star status…I bet you and many others said the same about ZL when he got traded to the bulls too
 

Scoot26

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I would say they are already at least 2nd tier stars, and if they keep it up the whole season…they will be pushing into tier 1 status

not sure what else they would need to show
25+PPG 5 rebounds a game and 5 assists a game would be nasty out of both of them

then factor in they shoot the ball at a % that is better than most of the other wing players in the tier 1 group
Important to understand that I've come up with my own system, and probably most people have their own systems. I look for sustained ability before I declare someone a superstar. Short of Lavine or DeMar winning MVP this season, I won't be declaring them superstars this particular season. If they throw together 2 seasons in a row like this, make All-NBA 1st/2nd.. I would definitely consider it.

I bet you and many others said the same about ZL when he got traded to the bulls too
Actually I saw potential in Zach. Wasn't that hard to, really depended on how he came back from his ACL injury. Was weary due to experiencing Rose's ACL injury, but Zach came back just fine.

Admittedly I've always been a hater of Lonzo due to his father, but despite that I did view him as extremely overrated coming out of college. I don't think I've been wrong in that. Has what Lonzo accomplished in the NBA thus far seemed worthy of a #2 pick?
 

knoxville7

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Important to understand that I've come up with my own system, and probably most people have their own systems. I look for sustained ability before I declare someone a superstar. Short of Lavine or DeMar winning MVP this season, I won't be declaring them superstars this particular season. If they throw together 2 seasons in a row like this, make All-NBA 1st/2nd.. I would definitely consider it.


Actually I saw potential in Zach. Wasn't that hard to, really depended on how he came back from his ACL injury. Was weary due to experiencing Rose's ACL injury, but Zach came back just fine.

Admittedly I've always been a hater of Lonzo due to his father, but despite that I did view him as extremely overrated coming out of college. I don't think I've been wrong in that. Has what Lonzo accomplished in the NBA thus far seemed worthy of a #2 pick?
We all know you have your own system. Not news lol. Also, ZL is currently in the midst of doing this 2 or 3 years in a row now.

where Lonzo got drafted really has nothing to do with anything. It’s not the bulls that drafted him there, so it’s not like they have “that” invested in him.

I too felt Lonzo was extremely overrated coming out of college. It’s the hard work he’s put in to improve his game drastically that had me wanting him in Chicago. And every bulls fan is happy he’s here now I’d assume too

his father is an ass. But Lonzo never seems to be the one running his mouth or acting like an ass.
 

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FWIW, we never hear about Lavar Ball anymore, but I gotta give it to the man, his sons ball out. Gotta appreciate him putting so much faith in his kids in a culture where fathers are usually absent.

That said, that dude's obnoxious asl lol
 

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