OT: How is Patrick Mahomes a GOAT

FozzyBear

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How many rings did those guys have in their first 4 years? I dont think Mahomes is the goat but he has had a brilliant start to his career. Brady is the GOAT. End of story.

Joe, Troy and Ben had 1 in their first 4 years. Troy and Ben had 2 in their first 5. Im not sure about the other guys on the list

Edit: Brady wasnt on that list of others, but for Brady, he had 2 in his first 4. 3 in his first 5.
 

Payton_34

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There can only be 1 GOAT in any category. Hence the "est" in greatest. Aside from that, GOAT is the most overused term in sports these days. Bottom line is wins but if you want to talk about specific metrics then just look at who leads:

Most passing yds
Most passing TDs
Highest completion %
...etc
 

willynowei

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I agree 100% with this post.
If people are objective and look at Mahomes compared to others in his position, his individual performance is light years beyond brady.
The filter of the past 15 years clouds peoples memories of early brady, but Brady had nowhere near the respect early on that Mahomes has.

I very much wish the old CBMB message boards were still in existence for reference when the "Nobody compares to Brady" mindset kicks in.

Lest anyone forget, in the midst of the Grossman wars of 06, Brady was WIDELY thought of as a very solid game manager.
He hovered in the 2-1 td to int ratio, bis yardage was mundane for the most part, but what really drove the narrative was wins and losses for the pats were dictated by defensive ranking.

Below is little synopsis of who and what brady was back in the first 5 or 6 years. keep in mind, Johnson and Dilfer were superbowl champs in the recent past on par with what Brady showed in 01... and the pats were built the same way.




They won the superbowl by their defense strangling warner in 01.

in 02, they went 9-7 with the defense ranking 17th in points against.

In 03, they had the leagues number 1 defense in points allowed. there was a mixed review of the super bowl- a brady pick almost cost them the game, Delhomme played the better game, but vinitari put the pats ahead with 9 seconds left.
That defense and that game left a lot of people on the fence about Brady.

in 04 they had the number 2 defense and Brady was good... but he was nowhere near the conversation for best overall QB.
His 3600 yards, 28 tds, 14 ints and 92 passer rating made no splash.
The big dogs that year were Manning with 4500 yards, 49 tds and 10 ints,
Culpepper (believe it or not) with 4700 yards, 39 tds and 11 ints
Brees with only 3200 passing yards but a stellar 27 td to 7 int year (remember, this was in the LT heyday with Marty schottenheimer as coach)
Mcnabb with 3800 yards and 31 tds and 8 ints
Green with 4500 yards, 27 tds and 17 picks.
Not to mention Favre, Vick and Warner still getting love.


05, they have a middle of the road defense again, and they got bounced from the playoffs after an ass kicking by the Plummer led Broncos... brady didnt play for shit. 2 picks and no tds by the pats until 8 minutes left in the 4th when they were down by 18.

in 06, vs the colts, they got bounced out of the playoffs despite the defense scoring twice in the first half- dillon once putting them up 21-6.
they pissed away the lead, Brady had the ball down by 4 and tossed a pick.


TL;DR, it wasnt until Moss arrived in 07 that people really started thinking of Brady as a skilled QB worthy of being mentioned in the top 10.
Even then, there was still a little bit of unease dubbing him as a top talent.
That was year one of gaudy passing numbers, and there was a solid reason people suspected it wasnt the real brady-
With Moss to throw to, Bradys tds jumped to 50.
HOWEVER- Culpepper, widely regarded a bust at that point, put up 39 tds with moss. Culpepper was inept without Randy. he goes from 39 tds and 11 picks in 04 to 6 tds and 12 picks in 05 without moss.
Many people were on the fence, thinking "look what moss did for that bust culpepper, is Brady a mirage?"

I remember the overwhelming arguments about brady being "he was Dilfer/Johnson with a defense and Culpepper with moss in 07!"
there were legit a majority of people during the grossman days that would laugh their asses off at Brady being put above dear Rex.

On an individual performance basis, Mahomes absolutely positively beyond a shadow of a doubt destroys Brady.
The question is, will he keep it up at this level?

After the Bills and Chiefs game I think its obvious just how much better Mahomes is at the individual level.


Your post above really sums it up, the rhetoric has changed and done a 180 degree turn. In the 2000s very few people other than Patriots fans would ever put Brady in the same category as Peyton, the way that Brady would sometimes throw 3 picks (against the Colts) and still go to the superbowl or literally score 0 points on offense (against the steelers) and still win, made a lot of people call Brady a "game manager" who could never be compared to a QB that had to carry the team. Everything changed, not just with the Moss years but that Falcons game in particular, once Brady had a few big heroic games the entire rhetoric flipped.

Bill Russell has 11 championships but no body talks about bill Russel in "Greatest Player" conversations. Mahomes has a chance to be the MJ of Football. If he gets 3 or 4 rings? With QBR lead all time in post season? It's a different story. (Just to be entirely clear, Brady's postseason QBR is 10 spots back from Montana and right next Joe freaking Flacco).
 

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Can someone explain to me why people call the could have been Bears QB a GOAT?

I get Mahomes has put up some top shelf numbers and all that. Has the second richest sports contract ever. Hes been to the playoffs all four years (started 3), with two trips to the SB, a SB Win, including the SB MVP. Still though, he only has one ring. The real GOAT Brady, has 7. Isnt is a bit premature to crown the man a goat before he even gets two rings? I mean all the Non Goats below have more SB rings than Patrick.

Joe Montana – 4
Terry Bradshaw – 4
Troy Aikman – 3
Eli Manning – 2
Peyton Manning – 2
Ben Roethlisberger – 2
John Elway – 2
Jim Plunkett – 2
Bob Griese – 2
Roger Staubach – 2
Bart Starr – 2
If you were the Chiefs and these guys in their prime, who would you prefer run that O? He hasn't sustained it yet but you could say the same about Josh Allen. Could these guys be as successful in TB? Could Brady be as successful in KC or Buffalo?
 

Toast88

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Guys, I live in Kansas City. It's my personal hell that every fucking day, I have to watch the future Hall of Fame player the Bears could've had do impossible shit and make it look easy. Every fucking day, I have to go into the office and hear people talk about it all the damn time.

As much as I hate it, I have to just accept that Patrick Mahomes will go down as one of the best quarterbacks ever, maybe even *the* best quarterback ever if the Chiefs can go on a several-Super-Bowl run. With 13 seconds left in the Bills game, there was no part of me that thought the Chiefs weren't going to pull it out.

Point being: Don't let personal animosity or hatred of Goliath (which the Chiefs and Mahomes absolutely are) blind you to the truth: That we're going to have to deal with Chiefs/Mahomes domination for the next decade and a half, whether we want to or not.
 

DammitFullerTurnUrHead!

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Tom Brady holds onto the GOAT title until someone else can replicate what he’s done. Mahomes is a great QB, but he’s no where close to Bradys level.
He is more talented than Brady and has looked better than Brady ever has these last few seasons. Give him defenses on par with those Patriots defenses and he’ll surpass Tom in rings as well.
 

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Guys, I live in Kansas City. It's my personal hell that every fucking day, I have to watch the future Hall of Fame player the Bears could've had do impossible shit and make it look easy. Every fucking day, I have to go into the office and hear people talk about it all the damn time.

As much as I hate it, I have to just accept that Patrick Mahomes will go down as one of the best quarterbacks ever, maybe even *the* best quarterback ever if the Chiefs can go on a several-Super-Bowl run. With 13 seconds left in the Bills game, there was no part of me that thought the Chiefs weren't going to pull it out.

Point being: Don't let personal animosity or hatred of Goliath (which the Chiefs and Mahomes absolutely are) blind you to the truth: That we're going to have to deal with Chiefs/Mahomes domination for the next decade and a half, whether we want to or not.
Eh, I live in Nebraska with a lot of chiefs fans all around. I think a bears fans take on Mahomes is going to depend on if the fan is over the fact that we could have drafted him.

I'm over it and love watching him succeed with one of the stories franchises of the NFL. Just sit back, crack open your favorite beverage, and enjoy the show!
 

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If Mahommes leads the league in yards and TD's in 2040 then we can talk. See you in 20 years to discuss further.
 

jsu34

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For the Mahomes hate and angst:

Get ready because this past playoff game has shown him grow even more. Frazier followed the blueprint that had been laid down to slow him down. Patrick was very impatient and this very season had a record number of turnovers trying to force the ball down field.

Sunday, he didn't attempt anything deep. Instead, he eviscerated the Bills defense by taking whatever they gave him.

Look out folks, Mahomes has gone to another level. And for what it's worth, so has Allen.
 

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