OT: Mets close to landing Lindor

CSF77

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Mets were talking about Bryant also. JD Davis and Steven Matz. Don't even care. Just need a 3B and a SP that has pitched. Even 1 year of control is awesome sauce
 

beckdawg

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Mets were talking about Bryant also. JD Davis and Steven Matz. Don't even care. Just need a 3B and a SP that has pitched. Even 1 year of control is awesome sauce
I'd be ok with Davis in the deal but pitching isn't what I'd target and Davis would need to be the secondary piece. I think you have to ask about Mauricio which they probably say no. I'd then ask on Mattew Allen and Baty. If NY would give up both of them I'd consider the trade. But I really don't want MLB players in trades unless it's replacing the departing piece like Davies was. I'd much rather see them go out and sign someone like Paxton to a rebound year type deal and give themselves a trade piece in july than to take on players via trade to fill their needs.
 

CSF77

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They would have to add more to get a return of volume again. 1 year of depressed value in Bryant is not going to move the dial.

With the adds going to A ball with Howard they have a solid core right now. Davis is the defacto CF. 1B to me is a place for a bat first type and you would rather pay for a F/A masher or use it for a catcher pivot and invest into 2 hitting first starting quality catchers and get more value from the investment.

So looking with the eye to the future they need pitching depth. 'volume'. They need a LF now. They need vet SP to net innings this year.

Now they are pretty deep in pitching prospects but it would take more from the Cubs to aquire it.
 

CSF77

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Now if you were talking Hendricks and Bryant. Took back Davis (1.7M 3 years of control). Matz (5.3 and a F/A), then took 2 pitching prospects. Matthew Allen and J.T. Grinn. Their top 2 basically for Kyle.

That way they have used their top 2 SP to aquire the next wave while adding temp SP to back fill. This way they can use the savings to add someone like Archer or Pax. Or make a investment into Ordonzzi on a multi to provide some stability while the rotation turns over.
 

beckdawg

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They need vet SP to net innings this year.
Why? Like I don't get the logic... if you're trading Bryant you're not attempting to win in 2021. So the quality of the innings you get doesn't matter. Sure i you're saying they have young arms who haven't proven they can throw 200 innings and that you need a couple work horse types then I would agree. But the way I see it, i'd much rather them get a decent prospect than trade for a vet pitcher that does nothing for them because they aren't trying to win. I'd much rather see them sign guys like Kluber and Paxton who had down years to reasonable deals and give themselves options for people to trade in july.

And even if those two are too expensive, i'd just assume they bring back someone like Lester cheaply.
 

CSF77

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Why? Like I don't get the logic... if you're trading Bryant you're not attempting to win in 2021. So the quality of the innings you get doesn't matter. Sure i you're saying they have young arms who haven't proven they can throw 200 innings and that you need a couple work horse types then I would agree. But the way I see it, i'd much rather them get a decent prospect than trade for a vet pitcher that does nothing for them because they aren't trying to win. I'd much rather see them sign guys like Kluber and Paxton who had down years to reasonable deals and give themselves options for people to trade in july.

And even if those two are too expensive, i'd just assume they bring back someone like Lester cheaply.


If you are looking to flip Lester is a bad choice. Old and not a impact choice to a contender.

If I am looking to flip (on top of Davies)

Archer, Pax, Odorizzi, Porcello

If I am looking to buy a gamble with a club option for 2022. Mike Foltynewicz.

A multi year deal Martin Perez.

That is how I would do it myself.

What I would like to see is Mike and Martin signed.

They would have Hendricks, Davies, Perez, Folty and Alzolay. Mills moves to swing man. July they trade Davies and promote Marquez and the staff becomes pretty solid then.

As far as the core goes I would start Bryant in LF. He gets flipped in July and Davis gets promoted.

Rizzo it depends if there is a solid offer on the table. They could just swap Contreras and Amaya 1B/C and open up their playing time. This one I'm on the fence with his leadership.

Baez it really depends if he takes a team friendly extension or not. They can move Nico to SS and have Schrock in house. Vargas is also on the 40 man. They also could move Bote to 2B and promote Chris Morel. So they have some inhouse options.

With A ball stacked I don't see them offering a mega to Bryant or Baez so it is far more likely they get traded.
 

CSF77

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But a inhouse fix: A weird one but is doable

Roederer and Davis both should be at Tenn out of ST. Both are 21 and can be pushed this year. Play Apr-May in Tenn then June-July in Iowa then Aug-Sept CHC.

This would push the OF to 4 deep. Heyward is the nail in RF. Davis would start in CF. That leaves Happ and Roederer.

I would get creative here. Morel has played some SS and has a strong arm and solid D. His bat is a bit light for 3B. Start him at SS.

3B platoon Happ and Bote. Happ has played league avg 3B. His bat is good enough for it. Bote is not but in a platoon it is fine.

LF would be the rest of Happ's PA's with Roederer getting the most reps there.

This solution works for a few years. 2024 Heyward comes off the books then they can reassess this with the A ball wave pending.
 

Chicagosports89

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But a inhouse fix: A weird one but is doable

Roederer and Davis both should be at Tenn out of ST. Both are 21 and can be pushed this year. Play Apr-May in Tenn then June-July in Iowa then Aug-Sept CHC.

This would push the OF to 4 deep. Heyward is the nail in RF. Davis would start in CF. That leaves Happ and Roederer.

I would get creative here. Morel has played some SS and has a strong arm and solid D. His bat is a bit light for 3B. Start him at SS.

3B platoon Happ and Bote. Happ has played league avg 3B. His bat is good enough for it. Bote is not but in a platoon it is fine.

LF would be the rest of Happ's PA's with Roederer getting the most reps there.

This solution works for a few years. 2024 Heyward comes off the books then they can reassess this with the A ball wave pending.
I dont see a reason to promote Davis this year. Extend his cost controlled years as far as possible since our next crop of prospects likely won't be ready to contend until 2024 anyway
 

knoxville7

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Hmm I notice lindor didn’t net much of a return in the trade...

it’s almost like star players aren’t netting the types of returns they used to
 

CSF77

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Hmm I notice lindor didn’t net much of a return in the trade...

it’s almost like star players aren’t netting the types of returns they used to
2 of the players were on the MLB roster last year.
 

CSF77

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I dont see a reason to promote Davis this year. Extend his cost controlled years as far as possible since our next crop of prospects likely won't be ready to contend until 2024 anyway
I can see that being a viable point. But there is no need on creating another 6 year tital wave again by stacking up talent also.

There is a real problem of creating a singular wave as we are seeing right now.

Having David Marquez and Roederer start together is manageable. They can choose to extend or trade down the road. When the next wave hits they will be hitting their 3rd year of control.

So creating mini 3 year waves IMO makes more sense.
 

knoxville7

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2 of the players were on the MLB roster last year.
so what?


the return was nothing special for a guy considered to be a franchise player. Again, it points to players that make a lot of $$ aren’t getting the returns they used to. Being a great player doesn’t mean you’ll get a great return for them in a trade.
 

MDB111™

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Mets were talking about Bryant also. JD Davis and Steven Matz. Don't even care. Just need a 3B and a SP that has pitched. Even 1 year of control is awesome sauce
smokescreen???
 

CSF77

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so what?


the return was nothing special for a guy considered to be a franchise player. Again, it points to players that make a lot of $$ aren’t getting the returns they used to. Being a great player doesn’t mean you’ll get a great return for them in a trade.

You realize Gimenez was ranked #92 in 2019, He was not a unranked player. Mercado just jumped in the rankings and made this a easy decision. 2018 Gimenez was their #1 ranked prospect.

The rest were solid players. Rosario has been around for a few years. Wolf has slotted in as Cleveland's #12 ranked prospect. Green #16.

The big difference was Lindor came with 1 year of control. Carlos Carrasco has a long history of injuries. So in that reguard I'll disagree in general. Clevland got a starting SS and a starting 2B. They got a SP prospect who is a grade 50. (mid rotation type) and Green who has all around tools. He might end up the gem in this deal. Field 55, Run 65, Hit 55, arm 50, power 45. Over all 50. Which could end up a lead off type for the indians.

So in reality if the Mets extend Lindor they win. If he hit F/A they could lose on this deal. A former top 100. 2 grade 50 players that look like starters and a experienced 2B for a oft injured SP and 1 year of the best SS in baseball. I'm thinking that Cleveland did pretty well.
 

CSF77

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To keep it in perspective the Cubs got 4 rank 45 players and 1 year of Davies who is a back end of the rotation pitcher. 45-50 grade talent but plays up like Hendricks. For Yu who put up CY Young level production for a years worth of games with 3 years of control. And a catcher that can start on SD with 3 years of control.

Cleveland got a better return.
 

Chicagosports89

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To keep it in perspective the Cubs got 4 rank 45 players and 1 year of Davies who is a back end of the rotation pitcher. 45-50 grade talent but plays up like Hendricks. For Yu who put up CY Young level production for a years worth of games with 3 years of control. And a catcher that can start on SD with 3 years of control.

Cleveland got a better return.
Cleveland should have got a better return
 

CSF77

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Cleveland should have got a better return
Market is wack this year. Only a handful of teams are adding payroll. Most are dumping.

So the teams that can take on payroll have the power right now.

That said. Cleveland got a good return. Gim doesn't have the PA's at the major league level (2000) to say he is what he is. That said his former prospect value still overrides it. (Top 100)

Roserio is a UI.

Then 2 50 grade prospects.

That is not bad for 1 year of control and a oft injured SP. They lose Lindor to FA and Carraco continues his string of DL trips then NY really loses on this trade.

The Mets were not going to give up their top prospects for that. 3 years of Lindor control then yes one of the 2 are going and the 2 50 grade prospects and Gim.

Roserio -> Mercado. That would have been the change.

The main argument here is trade weight.

Darvish has 3 years of control and came off a 3 WAR season. That was in 12 starts. In a full season we are talking about a 7 WAR effort.

Lindor has 1 year of control. 1/3 the trade weight Yu had. He held his own last year with 1.7 fWAR. over all he has been a 5 fWAR player with 2018 a career year at 7.8 due to his wRC+ jumping 15 points over his career avg of 115.

Lindor and Baez both are close in trade value right now. Cleveland had to add control to that deal to get a quality return.
 
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knoxville7

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You realize Gimenez was ranked #92 in 2019, He was not a unranked player. Mercado just jumped in the rankings and made this a easy decision. 2018 Gimenez was their #1 ranked prospect.

The rest were solid players. Rosario has been around for a few years. Wolf has slotted in as Cleveland's #12 ranked prospect. Green #16.

The big difference was Lindor came with 1 year of control. Carlos Carrasco has a long history of injuries. So in that reguard I'll disagree in general. Clevland got a starting SS and a starting 2B. They got a SP prospect who is a grade 50. (mid rotation type) and Green who has all around tools. He might end up the gem in this deal. Field 55, Run 65, Hit 55, arm 50, power 45. Over all 50. Which could end up a lead off type for the indians.

So in reality if the Mets extend Lindor they win. If he hit F/A they could lose on this deal. A former top 100. 2 grade 50 players that look like starters and a experienced 2B for a oft injured SP and 1 year of the best SS in baseball. I'm thinking that Cleveland did pretty well.
so you’re actually going to try and claim Cleveland got a good haul for their 27 year old franchise SS? Even though, all the news outlets say the Mets ripped em off?
 

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