hawkinmontreal
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Preach brother preach
HSBOB
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Were you busy banging your head against the wall since your last stupid post?
The Hawks got a good return and Tampa got a 23yro player who just helped his tired team reach the finals. I'm sure you just look at a scoresheet but if you didn't you'd have seen a kid in his first PO's who Cooper had out there in every important situation.
TB's developed many good,young palyers and Brandon Hagel will be another in the long line after some PO experience and a year of Cooper's tutelage....for 1.5M
Killorn has 34 career PO goals....8 last year.....none this year....know why? Didn't think so.......it was his and Hagle's line that held the high scoring Avs to 8 goals the last 4 SCF games.
Brandon Hagle sucks? You suck brah!
Diehardfan
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One dimensional moronic hockey fans, Bob. They come and they go....
KBIB
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I’m gonna stick up for Mattaa.
He came here coming off a nasty injury the year before to his shoulder and played thru the entire year at 60% then turned it on in that gimmicked playoff where he was far and away the best defenseman, which isn’t saying much but he was a lot better then many want to give him credit for. He made KooKoo a passable defense pairing.
If we’re still making Dachs bum wrist an excuse two years later, the same excuse should stand for Mattaa, and McCabe for that matter. Didn’t the guy blow his knee out the year before? Why does Dach get a pass but not McCabe?
Speaking of Bum Wrist Dach, did anybody notice Bowen Byram played more minutes yesterday then the elite Cale Makar? Or that Byram wasn’t that far off from a end boss tier defenseman during his playoff run?
He could have been a Hawk, and the funny thing is, the only person who would have taken Kirby Dach over Bowen Byram worked for the Blackhawks…..
Just our fucking luck
LordKOTL
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Let's be realistic: Kane and Toews were on their ELC's and hit performance bonuses for Cup 1 (so between 2.8 and 3.75M each counting bonuses), then signed 6.3M deals each and won 2 more while having that deal in effect. So you're right; it's not a direct comparison.
Like you said, let's see what MacKinnon signs after this current deal. Makar's making 9M until 2028 and Landeskog is making 7M until 2029. They have only 7 roster FWDs signed through next year. Things might get tight for them soon since now all of their guys can claim "cup winner" and command more.
Just to be fair here--I'm not excusing Dach and his wrist. He should be QO'ed and offered 1.5-2M AAV for 1-2 years, and if he doesn't like it he can try the offer sheet market. He can't go to arbitration yet so he can either accept a fair-market-value contract (and a sub-30%C with sub-10G and sub-20P shouldn't be making more that that no matter where he was drafted), He can try to be offersheeted, or he can play in Europe. He also needs to understand that if he does do what Strome did this past summer and become a lot better, the 'hawks *will* have the money to pay for him because what he was drafted for is a short-term rebuild need.
And yes, I'm still sour at taking Dach over Byram.
KBIB
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Well, I will say one thing about this place;
Most of the regulars here are pretty knowledgeable about hockey and seem like fans from way back instead of bandwagoners, and while disagreements do happen from time to time it’s never really a shitfest to scroll thru because most are adult about it.
That said, I don’t think anybody here wanted Kirby Dach over Byram. But, this is year three of hoping Dach puts up something resembling a respectable year and if some team wants to offer sheet him a first round pick exchange, the Hawks need to let him go be somebody else’s problem.
If Davidson is dead set on getting rid of everything Blowman touched, then he needs to do it. If the goal is to get faster and tougher, start with the guy with the two year old bad wrist because I’m sick and tired of fans using that as an excuse for why Dach isn’t any good instead of admitting he was a reach and two defenseman taken after him are first pairing guys in the making that would look great in the Indian head right now on a pairing with Jones.
Granada
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Honest question: what do you think Byram would look like on the Hawks right now? Do you think he would resemble anything close to what he is on the Avs? I'd say absolutely not. That isn't meant to be an excuse for Dach, but you have to admit the circumstances and supporting casts are light years apart from one another. It's a lot easier to develop quicker when your team isn't a complete shit show and you don't have two years under Colliton of all people, just saying.
Granada
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Agreed. Give Dach 1-2 years under a (hopefully) real coach for a change and see what he can do. It won't hurt anything next year anyway, the team is going to be a disaster regardless, like all early rebuilds.
KBIB
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That’s very astute reasoning.
I really think Colonton did more damage to the young guys here then helped them, no matter what this bullshit was that Blowman tried to blow up everyone’s ass about him being some whisperer for teenagers.
That said, I don’t think Bryam would have been rushed at the time. The Hawks had and still have, a boatload of young defenseman who have no clue what to do in their own zone that would have been higher on the food chain to go along with Byram being able to go back to juniors.
Even worse, he probably would have been a throw in for Jones.
ZOMBIE@CTESPN
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This team been such a shit show that this is very plausible lol.
HSBOB
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Lotta truth in what you said but I'm sure you'd agree the left shot Byram would make a better top pair partner for the right shot Jones than any other D-man on the roster.
LordKOTL
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Honestly, it would take over 4.2M in an offer sheet to fetch a 1st rounder. I doubt anyone offer Dach that much but if they do we let him go and laugh our way to the bank. My opinion on his market value would fetch a 3rd rounder. Honestly, between a 3rd rounder and Dach given 2 years to try to sort himself out, I'd give him a shot. He can't really hurt the rebuild at 1.5-2M AAV, and if he gets better it helps it.
If someone offers him 2.1M to 4.2M is where things get dicey. Do we take a 2nd rounder for Dach or keep him? What is the *max* the 'hawks are willing to swallow to keep him vs. letting him walk for a 2nd rounder? Bird in the hand and all that.
I do agree with @Granada though: given the scorched and salted earth mindset of Stan, Byram might not have developed here properly...after all, Dach hasn't. Still, my opinion is that your defense isn't set until it is, and if you overload on D-prospects and more turn out to be good than you can keep, they can be flipped at good value, so on its face picking Dach over Byram was dumb... irrespective of whether or not Byram would have developed. D was and still is a much more pressing need, and Stan counted his weasels before they popped.
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It should help to have a new coach with a different set of eyes on him too. Maybe he can get the most out of Dach.
KBIB
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Honestly, after that offer sheet the Canes gave KAKAniemi it wouldn’t surprise me if some team did pony up 4.2 for Dach. (Yes I know there was some politics behind that)
But, I agree you can never have enough defenseman who can actually defend. Having three of the best of the cap era here really made that part of the game look so easy it wasn’t even a factor until they traded one for somebody who couldn’t replace him, one’s hips pretty much ruined him, and the best of the bunch decided to get as far away from this dumpster fire as he could accepting a trade to the NHL’s version of Siberia.
I am a big proponent of taking the best player available in the nhl draft. This team right now needs to do that instead of trying to outsmart other GM’s thinking they know more about players then everyone else. You don’t roll the dice when your picking in the top five, you take the player who falls to you and I don’t give a shit if you have a trove of a certain type of player in the minors, you still take them.
I remember watching the year Seth Jones was drafted and when he dropped the Preds GM was running to the podium to draft him when his ancient ass had a glut of elite defenders already. Even the announcers were saying they were gonna pass on him for a forward.
Diehardfan
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You know, I was one of the few that liked the Dach pick. Loved his reach, his size.....but I also figured the Hawks would insist that he add a few pounds of muscle. He gets pushed around a lot. At 6' 4, he should be clocking in at about 225 or so.....not 198.
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I kind of liked the pic at the time as well. The thought of a 6'4" center would have filled a great need. Hopefully he can turn things around soon. Maybe Strome can help him with faceoffs this summer.
Granada
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I can't speak about what it was like here -- because I wasn't here at the time, I was on the old Hawks board -- but on that board, there were many people who wanted Dach over both Cozens and Byram.
Honestly, I don't really remember how I felt about it. I think I said, I'll be fine with Stan picking either Dach or Byram. Dach, on paper, worked because he was finally a big-body, top-six projected center who had the potential to take Toews' spot, who many were already sending to the glue factory then. I would have been fine with Byram at the time; and I was fine with Dach at the time. I remember being somewhat happy that Stan didn't pick a tiny player again, as he was prone to do.
Diehardfan
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Speaking of honesty.....I know absolutely nothing about pre-drafted hockey players. I've never heard of most of them....but before the draft, I read up on who may go where and hit YouTube to see what they look like and Hockey Reference to check out their height, weight and history. He was only 18....lots of time to muscle up and grow into major force. He looked like a great piece at center. Unfortunately, it didn't play out that way.....stayed skinny, couldn't win faceoffs and got thrown around like a rag doll.
Granada
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What's funny is, even if you do follow these players and know everything about them, 98% of them are still wildcards once they're drafted. That's just how it goes.
LordKOTL
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Maybe, but it shouldn't change the fact that he is a sub-10G, sub-20P, sub-30% center. There's zero reason to overpay him at this point; he is ineligible for arbitration. Give him a 1.5-2M show-me deal. If the new set of eyes works for him, he can get a great payday in 2 years. It works for everyone involved.
If a team was willing to pony up 4.21M for Dach, I think we take the 1st rounder and not look back. But, I don't see many teams doing that. If they want Dach they'll probably look on him as a project, and offer accordingly.
The hingepin of my argument is that Dach is NOT arbitration-eligible. He just has to be qualified. We own his rights until he's 25 as long as he's qualified, so there's no reason to think of overpaying unless he's offersheeted and the 'hawks think the compensation is worth less than matching. So, all the more reason to give him a low cap tradeable show-me deal. It fills a roster slot at market value which we'd need to do anyway, and gives him a chance to show his stuff. There's no reason to overpay because I doubt other teams will be clamoring fir him, and no reason to walk away if he's making market value.
