Remydat Draft Thoughts

Milky

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Those highlights took 6 years that’s the problem. We aren’t getting a 25 year old ready to rock the nfl like when we drafted Kyle long. This guy is still developing.
He is but there are still things he can come in and do right away. Screens, end-a-rounds, slants, go routes….

I’m not particularly fond of the pick either but he does have some instant value. He can come in and be the return man and I feel like Getsy is going to bring the screen game back to Chicago. Remember those? Yeah me neither. Lol… fuck Matt Nagy!!
 

remydat

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Those highlights took 6 years that’s the problem. We aren’t getting a 25 year old ready to rock the nfl like when we drafted Kyle long. This guy is still developing.
I think they need to develop Jones and he is not a day 1 starter. It's not easy for WR to be high impact right off the bat.

The beauty of VJJ is you dont need him to run all the routes in a game in year one. You let him run the full route tree in training camp and practice but in games he really only needs to run basic underneath routes and the deep variation of it. The more precise routes that require more technique you can save for Mooney and Pringle.

So for example you learn the slant which is simple and then the slant and go in the event CBs cheat on the slant. Or you have him run full speed on a go and and then run a comeback off it if the DB backs off too much on the go.

So the point is he will have an easier adjustment as I suspect he will have a package of plays. Whereas a guy like Pickens will need to be a more complete WR because he isnt as dynamic underneath.
 

Bearly

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So going into this draft, I was pretty gung ho about improving at WR and OL. So I can't say this is the draft I would have went with but perhaps it was the draft we needed. So let's get into each pick.

R2 (39) — CB Kyler Gordon, Washington - All the WRs I would have wanted here were gone and CB is a massive need so I was pretty content with this pick.

R2 (48) — S Jaquan Brisker, Penn State - I was not happy with this pick as I fundamentally do not like drafting S that high given you can easily find them throughout the draft and they are one of the cheapest positions to fill in FA. Having said that, I really was not fond of Pickens given his injury and character concerns and while I probably would have leaned Moore here, he was not one of my favorite picks. So preferences aside, the fact is Poles most likely got an instant starter for the D so in the end, this is just a difference of opinion on draft strategy.

R3 (71) — WR Velus Jones Jr., Tennessee - Boy I did not like the idea of a 25 year old rookie and VJJ was not on my radar in the 3rd. So really hated this pick at first. However doing some digging, he was the 2nd fastest WR at the combine and more importantly at the Senior Bowl when in pads. He also led CFB in YAC so he fits a clear need. Part of Fields development is going to be learning to get the short stuff and part of selling him on that is going to be having goes like VJJ who can take the short stuff and consistently bang out 4-5 yards of RAC. So I expect VJJ to catch his fair share of slants and underneath routes and to also be able to go over the top if defenses try to cheat on the short stuff.

R5 (168) — T Braxton Jones, Southern Utah - I probably was looking at different OL prospects but thought this was a fine pick. He had ideal length and athleticism to play T and just needs to get stronger in his base as he is high cut. But perfect guy as a developmental T that can hopefully emerge as a starting caliber player that can compete if Jenkins or Borom

R5 (174) — EDGE Dominique Robinson, Miami (OH) - Think he is one of the steals of the draft for me as I mocked him quite a bit to us. Again he has ideal measurables for Edge and just needs coaching and experience. If he develops he also makes a Quinn trade more feasible.

R6 (186) — T Zachary Thomas, San Diego State- Again, I was probably leaning for another OL but this is another athletic tackle who I think fits as reliable back-up who can play both G and T but probably more of a guard at this level.

R6 (203) — RB Trestan Ebner, Baylor - Again this pick is all about saying to Fields take the checkdown if it is there and let your guys make a play. Ebner is really a WR playing RB so will be interesting to see how he is used by the Bears. I expect a 3rd RB role and some gadget plays at WR essentially filling the Cohen role. In other words, a solid contributor that can beat LBs and S on WR type routes out of the backfield.

R6 (207) — C Doug Kramer, Illinois - Not on my radar at all but this is Poles adding another athletic lottery ticket to the OL depth.

R7 (226) — T Ja'Tyre Carter, Southern University - Seems obvious that part of the strategy of acquiring more picks was to load up on OL in a draft that Poles indicated was deep at OL. And again Poles keeps going back to the athletic lineman well with the hopes that at least 2 of these 4 guys develops into a solid contributor in the NFL.

R7 (254) — S Elijah Hicks, California - Depth piece but remember when I said S can be found throughout the draft. Hicks is a solid two way safety prospect as not afraid to drop down and hit. He also has enough coverage skills to play in the slot so he is a versatile S prospect who will provide depth to the S position.

R7 (255) — P Trenton Gill, North Carolina State - Part of the beauty of adding all this picks was having the luxury of taking the punter with the 3rd best punt yardage in CFB last year. More importantly he gets better hang time on his punts than Punt God so less likely to out punt coverage teams.

So all in all certainly not how I would have approached the draft. In terms of players especially at the top of the draft I would give Poles a C+. However, in terms of how he went from having the first number of picks to tied for the most I would give him an A. He worked the draft to perfection in terms of accumulating picks and being able to then leverage all those picks to load up on OL and fix the P position cheaply. So I would say this draft averages out to about a B for me.
Good take. The best thing about round 7 picks is that you don't need to compete for UDFAs. I agree about safeties so this guy better be a day one starter and become a long term leader. If he turns out pretty great, it will be well worth it and his spot is very important in this D. Jones is the wild card in this draft but I don't mind where he was picked. The issue was more about not trading down with the 2nd 2 and still trying to get someone like Pierce. A guy that may not turn out great but has the potential to X... plus another pick in 3 or 4.
 

remydat

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Yeah I don't care if they ran Trevor Semien out there to start for a year. Last two teams to win a Super Bowl won it after the season after acquiring a vet quarterback. Bears could've built things up in 2022 and gone for it in 2023 off-season on the free agency or trade market.

Instead we get to watch Justin Fields fall over himself, fumble the ball and throw it to the wrong team.

So you wanted a long term rebuild. Brady and Stafford joined stacked teams. They are not coming to the Bears. So you are left with no QB in 2020, a vet QB and going after say Sam Howell, or hoping for a top 10 pick and franchise QB in 2023. That then mains said rookie QB probably not making us a contender until 2025 or so at earliest.
 

LIBlue

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Yeah I don't care if they ran Trevor Semien out there to start for a year. Last two teams to win a Super Bowl won it after the season after acquiring a vet quarterback. Bears could've built things up in 2022 and gone for it in 2023 off-season on the free agency or trade market.

Instead we get to watch Justin Fields fall over himself, fumble the ball and throw it to the wrong team.
You have a pathological hatred of Fields. And one of the greatest QBs ever is available every year? And who is our Jared Goff to trade for a Stafford? BTW, 22 of the previous 25 Super Bowls (88%) before Brady and Stafford were lead by QBs drafted by the team.
 

Les Grossman

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6'0 SEC wide receivers who run 4.31's, had ample production (the YAC thing is massive) and don't have issues hanging onto the ball, with injuries or in their character would usually go somewhere in or near the top ten. The fact that he's going to be twenty-five and requires development tumbled him almost two full rounds.

People who say things like "I'd love the pick if he weren't so old" are totally missing the point. If Velus Jones Jr. was twenty-one he's probably going like tenth overall, the only reason the Bears got him is because of that red flag. Whether it proves to be crippling we cannot know, but I like the gamble.
He wouldn’t be going 20th overall. Most scouting reports say he can’t run routes.

And it’s not only the age, it’s his time playing ball. He still hasn’t figured it out after all this time lol.
 

Les Grossman

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The beauty of VJJ is you dont need him to run all the routes in a game in year one. You let him run the full route tree in training camp and practice but in games he really only needs to run basic underneath routes and the deep variation of it. The more precise routes that require more technique you can save for Mooney and Pringle.

So for example you learn the slant which is simple and then the slant and go in the event CBs cheat on the slant. Or you have him run full speed on a go and and then run a comeback off it if the DB backs off too much on the go.

So the point is he will have an easier adjustment as I suspect he will have a package of plays. Whereas a guy like Pickens will need to be a more complete WR because he isnt as dynamic underneath.
Ok stop remy. You’re just talking yourself into it now.

Pickens is more of a complete because he’s just better, not because he’s lacking something VJJ.

It’ll take a mere two weeks of scouting for opposing teams to figure out that VJJ can only run short YAC routes. He’s a gadget player.
 

remydat

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Great post. My only real different in opinion is Brisker and the low opinion on S. One of the worst parts of last year aside from watching the O line get pushed around (befoee Borom and Jenkins were olaying much) was watching teams run through our secondary like a soft breeze. Brisker has a history of being a baller and not without skill either. We were lacking serious leadership and jam in the secondary. I think Brisker has potential to be leader the secondary and woth Flus new criteria the days of players standing and watching the play like a childrens AYSO soccer game are over. Culture and attitude is a big factor in winning teams.

Right but my point is about relative value. It is not that they are not valuable on the field. It is that S is a relatively deep position in the NFL.

It is like in fantasy where you draft RB before WR generally because the difference in production from RB 15 to RB40 is much wider than difference between WR 15 and WR40. In this context S is like a fantasy WR. Outside of the top guys the production you get from S15 is not all that different from S40. Hence why you can find starting safeties much later in the draft and hence why they cost less in FA.
 

TL1961

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Am I the only person who doesn't see age 25 as an issue?

If you question Jones' production, that's fair. I by no means would imply there's no reason for concern.

But I have read 100 posts referencing his age like he's 35. Are people expecting a 21 year old WR would be with the team for 12-14 years and thus we'll only get 8-10 from the old man? That's a little crazy.

If the issue is he produced little in his time at TN, I get that. But why does everyone act like 25 is the cliff where players will fall off in terms of ability?
 

rayer kay

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Right but my point is about relative value. It is not that they are not valuable on the field. It is that S is a relatively deep position in the NFL.

It is like in fantasy where you draft RB before WR generally because the difference in production from RB 15 to RB40 is much wider than difference between WR 15 and WR40. In this context S is like a fantasy WR. Outside of the top guys the production you get from S15 is all that different from S40. Hence why you can find starting safeties much later in the draft and hence why they cost less in FA.
I think I get it. But I just do not agree sith the degree to which we see the disparity. Players are unique and I feel like a really good safety can change the dynaimcs of the game much more than most give the positon credit for. Saftey has the unique role to be able to swing in as an extra linebacker and end a run or short pass game or create turnovers in the long pass game. I thi k back and do not feel like we have had an impact safety since Brown, who could change the tide of a game. In adition they can serve as leaders in the secondary where th3 CB are lretty focused on their zone or guy and a saftey can see the entire field. I believe it is an underrated position and when you get one that has a thirst to hit and create turnovers they become more like field generals. Sure if you just want someone who will tackle in the box and get their arms in the way, then yeah you can find them easily. But if you want someone who can do i all, lead the secondary and create havoc and turnovers, that is worth taking higher IMHO
 

didshereallysaythat

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Ok stop remy. You’re just talking yourself into it now.

Pickens is more of a complete because he’s just better, not because he’s lacking something VJJ.

It’ll take a mere two weeks of scouting for opposing teams to figure out that VJJ can only run short YAC routes. He’s a gadget player.
Can we please stop talking in absoletes? Pickens was rated higher than Jones. I don't think anyone is arguing that. The point is that in order to get Pickens, you would have had to draft him in the 2nd instead of the 3rd. Does he help the offense more than Brisker helps the defense. That is the question. And the answer is to be determined.
 

TL1961

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Ok stop remy. You’re just talking yourself into it now.

Pickens is more of a complete because he’s just better, not because he’s lacking something VJJ.

It’ll take a mere two weeks of scouting for opposing teams to figure out that VJJ can only run short YAC routes. He’s a gadget player.
Deebo Samuels is a gadget player. Just sayin'.

No, I don't mean VJJ is Deebo Samuels. I mean the whole league praises a gadget player in SF and we use the term like it's something terrible.

He's fast. Maybe the new OC can use that, unlike last year when we supposedly loaded up on speed in the offseason and never had a plan to utiize it.
 

remydat

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Ok stop remy. You’re just talking yourself into it now.

Pickens is more of a complete because he’s just better, not because he’s lacking something VJJ.

It’ll take a mere two weeks of scouting for opposing teams to figure out that VJJ can only run short YAC routes. He’s a gadget player.

Think you missed the point. No one is disputing Pickens is a better prospect. I am saying VJJ has one elite characteristic that you can develop a package for whereas Pickens is a more well rounded player who needs to learn the whole route true in the NFL to use that well roundedness.

Wont take two weeks. Everyone knows he will be a YAC guy. Hence why you complement that with deep routes that his 4.31 speed is fully capable of running.

His value comes in if you try and focus om the YAC stuff, he can easily get behind you deep. If you play off then he can eat you up underneath. So everyone will know that is the plan but it is still going to be a challenge trying to balance that for a D.
 

remydat

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I think I get it. But I just do not agree sith the degree to which we see the disparity. Players are unique and I feel like a really good safety can change the dynaimcs of the game much more than most give the positon credit for. Saftey has the unique role to be able to swing in as an extra linebacker and end a run or short pass game or create turnovers in the long pass game. I thi k back and do not feel like we have had an impact safety since Brown, who could change the tide of a game. In adition they can serve as leaders in the secondary where th3 CB are lretty focused on their zone or guy and a saftey can see the field. O believe it is an inderated position and when you get one that has a thirat to hit and create turnovers they become more like field generals.

Yeah but my point is S has more top guys that were not high picks than other positions and they are cheaper. I like to focus top picks on positions that are hard to find later and that are expensive in FA. That is just my preference. Fine if others disagree.
 

BEARZOMBIE

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Yeah but my point is S has more top guys there were not high picks than other positions and they are cheaper. I like to focus top picks on positions that are hard to find later and that are expensive in FA. That is just my preference. Fine if others disagree.
I also laughed at Baltimore for taking safety in round one. I just don’t value the position like that.
 

didshereallysaythat

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Am I the only person who doesn't see age 25 as an issue?

If you question Jones' production, that's fair. I by no means would imply there's no reason for concern.

But I have read 100 posts referencing his age like he's 35. Are people expecting a 21 year old WR would be with the team for 12-14 years and thus we'll only get 8-10 from the old man? That's a little crazy.

If the issue is he produced little in his time at TN, I get that. But why does everyone act like 25 is the cliff where players will fall off in terms of ability?
Yeah the only position where this is really an issue is QB where you want to draft a guy that gives you over a decade plus of franchise play.

I think the bigger issue is why did it take him so long to develop at Tennessee? Is he a slow learner?
 

rayer kay

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Yeah but my point is S has more top guys there were not high picks than other positions and they are cheaper. I like to focus top picks on positions that are hard to find later and that are expensive in FA. That is just my preference. Fine if others disagree.
Legit preference. But agree to disagree. I have affinity for Safety position. But from a cap and resource management perspective I get the sense.
 

didshereallysaythat

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Deebo Samuels is a gadget player. Just sayin'.

No, I don't mean VJJ is Deebo Samuels. I mean the whole league praises a gadget player in SF and we use the term like it's something terrible.

He's fast. Maybe the new OC can use that, unlike last year when we supposedly loaded up on speed in the offseason and never had a plan to utiize it.
Well, it depends on how you utilize players like this. If you use them like Nagy where the beer vender in the 3rd deck knows the play call based on the formation, then you have an issue. If you use it like Kyle Shannahan, then you have success.
 

Anytime23

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Yeah I don't care if they ran Trevor Semien out there to start for a year. Last two teams to win a Super Bowl won it after the season after acquiring a vet quarterback. Bears could've built things up in 2022 and gone for it in 2023 off-season on the free agency or trade market.

Instead we get to watch Justin Fields fall over himself, fumble the ball and throw it to the wrong team.
Yes im sure Ryan Pace would have finally had that Super Bowl roster built by year 9....
 

remydat

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Am I the only person who doesn't see age 25 as an issue?

If you question Jones' production, that's fair. I by no means would imply there's no reason for concern.

But I have read 100 posts referencing his age like he's 35. Are people expecting a 21 year old WR would be with the team for 12-14 years and thus we'll only get 8-10 from the old man? That's a little crazy.

If the issue is he produced little in his time at TN, I get that. But why does everyone act like 25 is the cliff where players will fall off in terms of ability?

Well he will be 29 when he is a FA. So he has a shorter time period where he is likely to be productive which has to factor in when assessing his overall potential.
 
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