Remydat Draft Thoughts

[playthrough2001]

Right but my point is about relative value. It is not that they are not valuable on the field. It is that S is a relatively deep position in the NFL.

It is like in fantasy where you draft RB before WR generally because the difference in production from RB 15 to RB40 is much wider than difference between WR 15 and WR40. In this context S is like a fantasy WR. Outside of the top guys the production you get from S15 is not all that different from S40. Hence why you can find starting safeties much later in the draft and hence why they cost less in FA.

A tone setting, hard hitting, play making safety makes a huge difference in this defensive scheme. The last time the Bears went to the SB, both teams played this defense and had a player like that. Unfortunately, our guy could not play and their guy made the momentum changing hit that started things rolling for the Colts.

 

[TL1961]

Well, it depends on how you utilize players like this. If you use them like Nagy where the beer vender in the 3rd deck knows the play call based on the formation, then you have an issue. If you use it like Kyle Shannahan, then you have success.

Amen.

I remember back when the Bears had Dennis Gentry. Loved the guy. But if he was on the field, he was getting the ball. Similar to what I would say about the Saints with Taysom Hill (when he's not under center). If he is on the field, the play is for him.

If our new OC uses VJJ wisely, he could be a weapon (somewhat). We shall see.

 

[rawdawg]

I think they end up with 5 immediate starters out of this draft with one of them being the punter. They began the process with six picks.

Gordon, Brisker and Jones Jr. will start. I won’t be shocked if Thomas comes in and wins the RG job. Other guys like Robinson and Ebner will carve out roles.

Jones Jr. will most likely return kicks and punts and will start on O if they come out in 11 ( 3 receiver set) on offense.

Braxton Jones will come in and compete with Borom and Jenkins. Poles brought in a group of young, athletic o-lineman that fit the scheme and have the nasty mentality he’s looking for up front.

This is the start of building through the draft and creating a culture of winning. I believe this regime will weed out guys collecting a paycheck quickly. They’re bringing in fast, athletic players that play hard and love football.

I think next year Poles will get Fields the weapons he needs to excel. There was no way it was going to happen in one off-season. I’m encouraged.

Coming out with 5 starters doesn't mean it's a good draft. Guys like Trubisky, Shaheen, Grasu, and Anthony Miller were starters but probably weren't good picks (granted, some of their results are Nagy influenced). Anyone can start games, but its hard to find players who are actually good starters.

Not saying it's a bad draft though. I agree with remy, it's a C+ draft. I also agree with your assessment for the most part, they picked up some good players and took a lot of chances on athleticism. If those 5th and 6th round picks don't work out, it's not really a big deal. If they do, it's a steal.

 

[Les Grossman]

Deebo Samuels is a gadget player. Just sayin'.

No, I don't mean VJJ is Deebo Samuels. I mean the whole league praises a gadget player in SF and we use the term like it's something terrible.

He's fast. Maybe the new OC can use that, unlike last year when we supposedly loaded up on speed in the offseason and never had a plan to utiize it.

Bad logic. Deebo is not ONLY a gadget player. He can actually run routes.

In fact that probably the reason he’s so effective and dangerous, he isn’t a one trick pony. Defense don’t know what he’s gonna do any given play because he’s a threat to do it ALL.

But yeah, hopefully his speed can translate to running go routes or something.

 

[playthrough2001]

Coming out with 5 starters doesn't mean it's a good draft. Guys like Trubisky, Shaheen, Grasu, and Anthony Miller were starters but probably weren't good picks (granted, some of their results are Nagy influenced). Anyone can start games, but its hard to find players who are actually good starters.

Not saying it's a bad draft though. I agree with remy, it's a C+ draft. I also agree with your assessment for the most part, they picked up some good players and took a lot of chances on athleticism. If those 5th and 6th round picks don't work out, it's not really a big deal. If they do, it's a steal.

I believe the first two guys are huge upgrades and we didn’t have anyone like Jones Jr. (since they moved on from Patterson) on the roster, but your assessment is fair and we’ll see how it plays out.

 

[playthrough2001]

Bad logic. Deebo is not ONLY a gadget player. He can actually run routes.

In fact that probably the reason he’s so effective and dangerous, he isn’t a one trick pony. Defense don’t know what he’s gonna do any given play because he’s a threat to do it ALL.

Look back to last season and how Smith utilized Patterson in Atlanta. That’s what I expect Getsy will do with Jones Jr.

 

[remydat]

A tone setting, hard hitting, play making safety makes a huge difference in this defensive scheme. The last time the Bears went to the SB, both teams played this defense and had a player like that. Unfortunately, our guy could not play and their guy made the momentum changing hit that started things rolling for the Colts.

That is not being disputed. I am saying I think you can find those guys later in the draft and cheaper in FA relative to other positions.

If Hicks outperforms Brisker, I will not be surprised.

 

[Les Grossman]

I’ll just add that VJJ was a 3rd round pick. Terrible value for such a limited player with limited upside. There’s a place to draft players like that and it’s not the 3rd round.

Overall the draft went ok as long as some of those OL pan out. I share pretty much the same of remy’s sentiments with the picks made.

 

[ThatGuyRyan]

That is not being disputed. I am saying I think you can find those guys later in the draft and cheaper in FA relative to other positions.

If Hicks outperforms Brisker, I will not be surprised.

LOL again if that’s the case, then where has that been since Mike brown? How many safeties have the bears drafted? 8? All in later rounds..

Athletic ability cannot be taught. These guys are ranked for a reason.

 

[Les Grossman]

Also if some of these player don’t become starters, our STs is gonna be wild with these “freak” athletes running around lol

 

[remydat]

Bad logic. Deebo is not ONLY a gadget player. He can actually run routes.

In fact that probably the reason he’s so effective and dangerous, he isn’t a one trick pony. Defense don’t know what he’s gonna do any given play because he’s a threat to do it ALL.

But yeah, hopefully his speed can translate to running go routes or something.

Deebo weakness most of which were route running.

Weaknesses

• Compact, stocky frame looks out of place outside
• Needs to improve footwork to defeat press
• Routes lack forward lean and vertical push
• Hip tightness limits stride length
• Needs to add some finesse with route-work
• Struggled to uncover against press-and-trail coverage
• Average burst to separate out of breaks and turns
• Below average catch radius and mid-air body adjustments
• First and only healthy season was in 2018
• Past hamstring issues concern evaluators.

This after 4 years in college where his high in yards was 882.

 

[remydat]

LOL again if that’s the case, then where has that been since Mike brown? How many safeties have the bears drafted? 8? All in later rounds..

Athletic ability cannot be taught. These guys are ranked for a reason.

We have had good safeties since Mike Brown so not sure your point. I am also speaking generally and not about the Bears. If the Bears are shitty drafters that doesnt mean my point doesnt hold true generally.

 

[ThatGuyRyan]

We have had good safeties since Mike Brown so not sure your point. I am also speaking generally and not about the Bears. If the Bears are shitty drafters that doesnt mean my point doesnt hold true generally.

Who lol? Adrian Amos?

 

[Les Grossman]

Deebo weakness most of which were route running.

Weaknesses

• Compact, stocky frame looks out of place outside
• Needs to improve footwork to defeat press
• Routes lack forward lean and vertical push
• Hip tightness limits stride length
• Needs to add some finesse with route-work
• Struggled to uncover against press-and-trail coverage
• Average burst to separate out of breaks and turns
• Below average catch radius and mid-air body adjustments
• First and only healthy season was in 2018
• Past hamstring issues concern evaluators.

This after 4 years in college where his high in yards was 882.

“Needs to add finesse” is a lot different than VJJ who was “Only asked to run extremely basic routes” (nfl.com)

 

[Montucky]

I’ll just add that VJJ was a 3rd round pick. Terrible value for such a limited player with limited upside. There’s a place to draft players like that and it’s not the 3rd round.

Overall the draft went ok as long as some of those OL pan out. I share pretty much the same of remy’s sentiments with the picks made.

A player with Velus Jones Jr.'s profile in the SEC is a top ten pick if he's not twenty-five years old. Don't believe me? Henry Ruggs III had almost identical production to Jones Jr. and near identical measureables. He went twelfth overall in a draft vastly stronger than this one.

I think the route running criticism is a vague and probably baseless concern too. I have no doubts that if he has what it takes to be a pro player he'll figure that part of his game out. The question with Jones Jr. really is whether he can just hack it in the league where things move much faster and pressure is much greater. No way of knowing that, but I love the profile.

 

[dabears70]

I think they need to develop Jones and he is not a day 1 starter. It's not easy for WR to be high impact right off the bat.

As of right now it'll be easy for him to win a starting job cause the only guys he has to beat out have been nothing more than #4, #5 WR's their entire careers in the NFL so not hard to win a starting job and that goes for the OL and some other positions as well.

This coaching staff was chosen because they're supposed to be good teachers and player developers which Flus did a real good job of as Indy's DC. This is what next season is all about for Poles and this staff.

Now we have no idea if Poles is planning on adding any other vets that are out there now or that will be getting cut after the draft or even making any trades which i don't think is very likely, but as of now it'll be easy for some of these draftees and other lower tier players we brought in to win starting jobs or get playing time.

 

[Montucky]

Who lol? Adrian Amos?

Danieal Manning, Eddie Jackson and Adrian Amos are all decent players. Or at least guys who really had great moments. I would argue Major Wright had a nice couple years. Chris Conte was probably an average player who got heavily scapegoated. Teshaun Gipson did well.

 

[ThatGuyRyan]

Danieal Manning, Eddie Jackson and Adrian Amos are all decent players. Or at least guys who really had great moments. I would argue Major Wright had a nice couple years. Chris Conte was probably an average player who got heavily scapegoated. Teshaun Gipson did well.

Sorry but none of those guys can hold Mike Browns jock strap.

But Manning was a second round pick, thanks for proving my point. Jackson was a second round talent who fell because of injury. Gipson wasn’t drafted by the bears.

Edit: Conte was terrible, as was wright

 

[msadows]

good write up remy.

I had basically the same thoughts of the first 3 picks as you did.

Still don't like the velus pick but I get what poles and getsy are trying to do w/ him. He's gonna get a lot of work on offense just keeping opposing defenses honest. Should help fields a lot to space the field w/ his screen game

I think he could be a good player, but I would have prefered a more polished WR. I still feel like they are missing an X. Maybe go get julio or OBJ in FA still?

 

[dabears70]

Ok stop remy. You’re just talking yourself into it now.

Pickens is more of a complete because he’s just better, not because he’s lacking something VJJ.

It’ll take a mere two weeks of scouting for opposing teams to figure out that VJJ can only run short YAC routes. He’s a gadget player.

This is what fans do after the draft. They spend a month doing mocks and talking about what players they like and want the Bears to draft and when the draft goes another way they watch highlight tape of those players their team did draft they go read what "draft experts" say about those players and become a fan of those players because they are now on their teams so why not back them. Many do this even i do it all the time. I hated the Velus pick in the 3rd round but would of been good if we drafted him in the 5th round, maybe the 4th, but now i after reading up on him and watching his tape i can see how the kid, excuse me, 25 year old man, can help us in so many different ways.

Happens every draft by many people. It's kinda a thing.