REPORT: Bulls Ready to Spend Big Money in Free Agency

Enasic

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he’s barely bigger than Lavine and Lavine would get abused in the post by most 3’s in the league. And the idea of playing derozan at the 4 is ridiculous. I don’t care if pop did it a few times or not.

and so you’d add derozan and rose and cut Thad and sato to make room? That isn’t improving the team much

if living in reality is “moving the goal posts” then sure
Pop played him at the 3 and that’s the position he would play here. How is he undersized? Are you suggesting he is a sub-par defender against SFs?

I haven’t heard a single convincing counter argument to anything. You simply keep jumping to new points and not adequately addressing the previous ones.

And yes, Rose/DeRozan is much better than Sato/Thad. Are you really serious? Lol
 

knoxville7

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Pop played him at the 3 and that’s the position he would play here. How is he undersized? Are you suggesting he is a sub-par defender against SFs?

I haven’t heard a single convincing counter argument to anything. You simply keep jumping to new points and not adequately addressing the previous ones.

And yes, Rose/DeRozan is much better than Sato/Thad. Are you really serious? Lol

no, it’s I’ve listed multiple reasons why it’s a bad idea. You keep pretending this is somehow “moving the goal posts.” Sorry for giving you multiple reasons why

and yes, rose/derozan is better than sato/Thad. That’s not what I debated. I claimed adding those two and subtracting the other two doesn’t improve the team that much. You really need to read more carefully. You have done this a few times lately

you almost have me hoping it’s exactly what the bulls do though, just to watch it fail miserably to prove it to you. Fortunately, I don’t think AKME is this foolish
 

Enasic

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no, it’s I’ve listed multiple reasons why it’s a bad idea. You keep pretending this is somehow “moving the goal posts.” Sorry for giving you multiple reasons why

and yes, rose/derozan is better than sato/Thad. That’s not what I debated. I claimed adding those two and subtracting the other two doesn’t improve the team that much. You really need to read more carefully. You have done this a few times lately

you almost have me hoping it’s exactly what the bulls do though, just to watch it fail miserably to prove it to you. Fortunately, I don’t think AKME is this foolish
Lol…that’s quite a mindset you have there knox. Kind of weird…I still contend your “reasons” were inadequate and circular, but we can agree to strongly disagree.
 

knoxville7

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Lol…that’s quite a mindset you have there knox. Kind of weird…I still contend your “reasons” were inadequate and circular, but we can agree to strongly disagree.
Mmmmmk

also, Zach Lavine had a higher defensive win share total than derozan did. Sooo maybe he’s not the great defender you think he is? Or maybe his defensive win share was hurt some by having to guard bigger guys at the 3 spot? You know, like I said
 

Enasic

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Mmmmmk

also, Zach Lavine had a higher defensive win share total than derozan did. Sooo maybe he’s not the great defender you think he is? Or maybe his defensive win share was hurt some by having to guard bigger guys at the 3 spot? You know, like I said
I never said he’s a great defender, but he’s a solid and capable wing defender. Btw, you’re talking .3% of a difference in DWS…

Again, your original point that you kept going on about was that DeRozan was a bad fit because of his lack of outside shooting. I presented a very reasonable argument with projections that demonstrated why that claim is untrue. The Bulls would have more than enough outside shooting and spacing. You did not dispute those projections or claim.

You then jumped around to is it possible cap wise to what makes me think DeRozan is the difference? Again, never properly defending your original claims or making any semblance of convincing arguments.
 

knoxville7

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I never said he’s a great defender, but he’s a solid and capable wing defender. Btw, you’re talking .3% of a difference in DWS…

Again, your original point that you kept going on about was that DeRozan was a bad fit because of his lack of outside shooting. I presented a very reasonable argument with projections that demonstrated why that claim is untrue. The Bulls would have more than enough outside shooting and spacing. You did not dispute those projections or claim.

You then jumped around to is it possible cap wise to what makes me think DeRozan is the difference? Again, never properly defending your original claims or making any semblance of convincing arguments.

ummm what? I absolutely disputed his shooting abilities being a fit on the roster. Rose is avg and so is PWill currently. Vuc is above avg for a big man and Lavine is elite level from 3. But this is beating a dead horse at this point. I’ve given you plenty of reasons why and again you just don’t like my reasons and pretend I’m not giving “convincing” arguments. Yet, you seem to be the only one touting getting derozan, so maybe you’re the one lacking convincing arguments?

the guy is a bad fit. But alas, go on some more about how great of a fit it is. I’m done
 

Enasic

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ummm what? I absolutely disputed his shooting abilities being a fit on the roster. Rose is avg and so is PWill currently. Vuc is above avg for a big man and Lavine is elite level from 3. But this is beating a dead horse at this point. I’ve given you plenty of reasons why and again you just don’t like my reasons and pretend I’m not giving “convincing” arguments. Yet, you seem to be the only one touting getting derozan, so maybe you’re the one lacking convincing arguments?

the guy is a bad fit. But alas, go on some more about how great of a fit it is. I’m done
Thanks for confirming your poor arguments. Rose shot 38% from 3 last season and Williams 39%. Perhaps we have different definitions of mediocre. Vuc and Zach both capable of 40+%. Again, where are the spacing and lack of 3 pt shooting concerns?

You cited 5 teams who all have 5 starters capable of shooting 3s. By chance, did any of those starters shoot under 38%?

No one is touting anything right now. We’re the only two people dumb enough to be debating hypothetical bulls rosters right now lol…like I said though, bulls were linked to DeRozan at the deadline…make of that what you will
 
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knoxville7

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Why have 5 guys that can hit open jumpshot 3’s, when you can have 4 guys that can!!!

let’s add a guy to the roster who’s game relies on the most ineffective shot in basketball, the midrange 2!!!
 

clonetrooper264

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Why have 5 guys that can hit open jumpshot 3’s, when you can have 4 guys that can!!!

let’s add a guy to the roster who’s game relies on the most ineffective shot in basketball, the midrange 2!!!
While I totally understand the importance of the 3, let's not pretend like the great scorers in the league don't have a great midrange game.

That said, Derozan is a bit weird in that he refuses to shoot 3s. I'm sure he could improve his percentages in one offseason if he worked on it. I'd say his age (31) is more of a factor to not sign him to a long term deal than his 3s though
 

knoxville7

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While I totally understand the importance of the 3, let's not pretend like the great scorers in the league don't have a great midrange game.

That said, Derozan is a bit weird in that he refuses to shoot 3s. I'm sure he could improve his percentages in one offseason if he worked on it. I'd say his age (31) is more of a factor to not sign him to a long term deal than his 3s though

I never pretended they didn’t. The point is the usage of the midrange 2. It’s fine to incorporate it into your game and use it…it’s part of the court, so only makes sense to use it. The great players of the league aren’t using the midrange 2 as their bread and butter…derozan, it’s the majority of his offensive game, and that’s what doesn’t work well in today’s nba

and yes, giving a 31 year old derozan 3 years and 60 mil is a really poor idea
 

clonetrooper264

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I never pretended they didn’t. The point is the usage of the midrange 2. It’s fine to incorporate it into your game and use it…it’s part of the court, so only makes sense to use it. The great players of the league aren’t using the midrange 2 as their bread and butter…derozan, it’s the majority of his offensive game, and that’s what doesn’t work well in today’s nba

and yes, giving a 31 year old derozan 3 years and 60 mil is a really poor idea
I think people aren't giving the midrange enough credit these days. If you look at the Finals this year, sure 3s were made, but both teams were taking a lot of midrange shots. CP3 has made a living shooting midrange shots off the pick and roll. Middleton made plenty of midrange shots off post ups and turnarounds, probably made more of those than 3s in the series. Booker barely made a 3 at all in the series. KD takes a lot of midrange shots as well.

All that to say I don't fault Derozan for shooting midrange shots, especially as he makes them at a high percentage. I will fault him for not developing the 3 as an option. He only has one season where he shoots a mediocre 33% on 3 attempts. If he could shoot that consistently at least then you'd have to respect that he could make the shot instead of giving him Rondo treatment.
 

knoxville7

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I think people aren't giving the midrange enough credit these days. If you look at the Finals this year, sure 3s were made, but both teams were taking a lot of midrange shots. CP3 has made a living shooting midrange shots off the pick and roll. Middleton made plenty of midrange shots off post ups and turnarounds, probably made more of those than 3s in the series. Booker barely made a 3 at all in the series. KD takes a lot of midrange shots as well.

All that to say I don't fault Derozan for shooting midrange shots, especially as he makes them at a high percentage. I will fault him for not developing the 3 as an option. He only has one season where he shoots a mediocre 33% on 3 attempts. If he could shoot that consistently at least then you'd have to respect that he could make the shot instead of giving him Rondo treatment.

that’s the difference though between Derozan and the guys you listed(Paul, Middleton, Booker), those 3 guys are all a THREAT to make 3’s…whereas, Derozan is not and thus no defender comes out to the 3 point line that is guarding him.

those other 3 guys are good at mid range shots in part because defenses fear them shooting the 3 ball more than giving up a midrange 2. With Derozan there is no fear

it’s not an indictment on the midrange 2, as it is an indictment of players whos biggest asset is the midrange 2
 

clonetrooper264

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that’s the difference though between Derozan and the guys you listed(Paul, Middleton, Booker), those 3 guys are all a THREAT to make 3’s…whereas, Derozan is not and thus no defender comes out to the 3 point line that is guarding him.

those other 3 guys are good at mid range shots in part because defenses fear them shooting the 3 ball more than giving up a midrange 2. With Derozan there is no fear

it’s not an indictment on the midrange 2, as it is an indictment of players whos biggest asset is the midrange 2
I guess. It's debatable which weapon is their bread and butter. For someone like CP3 I would say his bread and butter is the midrange, without it he wouldn't be the player he is. It's part of the problem that was the D'Antoni Rocket's offense, no midrange whatsoever. Like yeah sure the midrange is more viable of a shot because of the threat of the 3, but the thing about midrange shots is that you can basically get them whenever you want and still hit them at a pretty high percentage compared to 3s.

You hear the term 3 level scorer thrown around every so often to describe the great scorers in the league. Derozan isn't that because he's missing the 3, but if he added a 3pt shot to his game he would shoot up the list of great scorers in this league.
 

knoxville7

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I guess. It's debatable which weapon is their bread and butter. For someone like CP3 I would say his bread and butter is the midrange, without it he wouldn't be the player he is. It's part of the problem that was the D'Antoni Rocket's offense, no midrange whatsoever. Like yeah sure the midrange is more viable of a shot because of the threat of the 3, but the thing about midrange shots is that you can basically get them whenever you want and still hit them at a pretty high percentage compared to 3s.

You hear the term 3 level scorer thrown around every so often to describe the great scorers in the league. Derozan isn't that because he's missing the 3, but if he added a 3pt shot to his game he would shoot up the list of great scorers in this league.

exactly, you can get midrange shots anytime you want, but it’s a little tougher to get them when every defender knows that IS what you want to shoot. CP3 I can agree lives off the midrange shot, he obviously can make 3’s though and he brings a lot more to the game than just his scoring.

and sure, if Derozan got to where he was a 35%+ three point shooter, he would be crazy good. Thing is he’s 31 and never has done it…no reason to think it suddenly changes now. And it actually hurts his teammates offense due to no defender coming out to the 3 point line when Derozan is off ball out there
 

Enasic

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Regarding derozan’s age…the bulls just traded capital for Vuc who is 30. Demar is 31 lol….he fits the window right now. Unless Vuc is too old too
 

Enasic

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Why have 5 guys that can hit open jumpshot 3’s, when you can have 4 guys that can!!!

let’s add a guy to the roster who’s game relies on the most ineffective shot in basketball, the midrange 2!!!
This is one of the dumbest things I’ve read on here and you keep dancing around all over the place.

again, do teams need 5 starters who can shoot 3s? You named 5 teams that have that and I doubt all 5 shoot a good percentage. You literally make no sense with your arguments.
 

knoxville7

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This is one of the dumbest things I’ve read on here and you keep dancing around all over the place.

again, do teams need 5 starters who can shoot 3s? You named 5 teams that have that and I doubt all 5 shoot a good percentage. You literally make no sense with your arguments.

you might want to actually look up the numbers of some of these teams I’ve listed. If you did you might hush your mouth a lil bit. Why not have 5 guys that are average or above average at 3’s in your lineup if you can? It only makes offense easier for everyone on the court.
 

Enasic

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you might want to actually look up the numbers of some of these teams I’ve listed. If you did you might hush your mouth a lil bit. Why not have 5 guys that are average or above average at 3’s in your lineup if you can? It only makes offense easier for everyone on the court.
5 teams in the nba lol…and you’re using this as fuel for your point lol

Teams don’t need 5 starters who can shoot 3s. It’s a completely false premise it’s ridiculously stupid. Continue to ignore the efficiency, outside shooting, shot creating, and play making abilities of the starting lineup.


At this point it’s clear you are incapable of having logical and objective discourse or defend your statements with sufficient arguments. You want to be “right” so bad you would rather keep spinning your tires and actually listen to arguments and be flexible with your viewpoints/opinions. I am completely done having any discussions with you because quite frankly, you don’t provide any interesting, objective insight or arguments. It’s very much like debating with a teenager honestly. Do you though
 

knoxville7

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5 teams in the nba lol…and you’re using this as fuel for your point lol

Teams don’t need 5 starters who can shoot 3s. It’s a completely false premise it’s ridiculously stupid. Continue to ignore the efficiency, outside shooting, shot creating, and play making abilities of the starting lineup.


At this point it’s clear you are incapable of having logical and objective discourse or defend your statements with sufficient arguments. You want to be “right” so bad you would rather keep spinning your tires and actually listen to arguments and be flexible with your viewpoints/opinions. I am completely done having any discussions with you because quite frankly, you don’t provide any interesting, objective insight or arguments. It’s very much like debating with a teenager honestly. Do you though

again you and reading comprehension. I never said teams need/have to have 5 starters that can hit 3’s. I said why wouldn’t you want that if you can have that?

you lack the ability to comprehend and yet I’m the teenager? Mmmmk
 

clonetrooper264

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Regarding derozan’s age…the bulls just traded capital for Vuc who is 30. Demar is 31 lol….he fits the window right now. Unless Vuc is too old too
For me that age comment comes out of a few things.

We already have 2 wing players in Zach and PWill

Vuc is an all star player at a position of need, if we didn't have Vuc and got Derozan instead I probably wouldn't complain but I'm sure you'd agree between the two Vuc is the better fit. Given the needs of the team, I'd rather spend that money on a 31 yo PG who's of the same caliber if the choice is there

But in a vacuum is Derozan worth a 4 year deal? Sure. The man's a bucket, has good playmaking skills, can create his own shot off the dribble, and is a decent defender. If he could shoot 3s he'd be bargaining for a max contract.
 

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