Report: Poles ‘gut’ told him not to trade twice in top ten of 2023 draft

[vabearsfan15]

I already calculated the points for the Niners trade. It was 2200 vs 2292. But yes the Titans got less value for the 2016 first round pick which is all the more reason that claiming our trade was just ok is weird as we got 3372 of value compared to 2680 for the Titans even when they went all the way down to 15.



As I said, if you look at the trades of top picks, we got more value than most which is why your abo statement made no sense. It was more than just ok.

The trade chart was created in 1991 so would not include the 90s trades because unclear how well circulated it was in the 90s. It would have taken several years before it became widely adopted. People shit on some of those tradee such as the Ricky Williams one and called Mike Ditka nuts for doing it. So dumb trades like that are what probably lead to people adopting the trade value chart. It was like the wild wild west until widespread adoption of the JJ chart.

On one hand you claim teams use the trade chart and are precise in the numbers valued and then on the other hand you overlook hundred(s) of point differentials between the chart value and actual trade. Yet, those hundreds of points represent 3rd and 4th rd picks. Those hold value.

My point still stands. The values are different every year. Just as players are graded, Im sure they are individually assigned some form of value in accordance to the point system. For some years the guys on the top are valued higher, other years it's less. In the years it's less, teams don't even bother to make trade up offers as future capital holds potential opportunity that can not be quantified as easily as "500" points. They wait for their selection and keep the future vakue of their picks.

 

[Montucky]

When I criticisize the idiotic Chase Claypool trade remy will say there was no way the Bears could've known they were giving away pick thirty-second overall.

When its time to heap unconditional praise on Ryan Poles he assumes what the Packers offered for DJ Moore months ago was going to fifteenth overall all along. Just so it boosts the score on his dumb little trade chart, which there is no way of steering him off of.

 

[monkforasia]

On one hand you claim teams use the trade chart and are precise in the numbers valued and then on the other hand you overlook hundred(s) of point differentials between the chart value and actual trade. Yet, those hundreds of points represent 3rd and 4th rd picks. Those hold value.

My point still stands. The values are different every year. Just as players are graded, Im sure they are individually assigned some form of value in accordance to the point system. For some years the guys on the top are valued higher, other years it's less. In the years it's less, teams don't even bother to make trade up offers as future capital holds potential opportunity that can not be quantified as easily as "500" points. They wait for their selection and keep the future vakue of their picks.

Trade values are all subjective. For me, its all based on the player available. If its a highly covered player like a QB, it's going to increase that value. Hypothetically Andrew luck or Trevor Lawrence were available at the first and the bears had their future QB already. I guarantee they would get more value than the "3200" trade value used based on those charts.

 

[remydat]

On one hand you claim teams use the trade chart and are precise in the numbers valued and then on the other hand you overlook hundred(s) of point differentials between the chart value and actual trade. Yet, those hundreds of points represent 3rd and 4th rd picks. Those hold value.

My point still stands. The values are different every year. Just as players are graded, Im sure they are individually assigned some form of value in accordance to the point system. For some years the guys on the top are valued higher, other years it's less. In the years it's less, teams don't even bother to make trade up offers as future capital holds potential opportunity that can not be quantified as easily as "500" points. They wait for their selection and keep the future vakue of their picks.

Nope I never claimed it was precise. I said it was largely around the assigned value which means there is room for differences. It should be obvious I did not say anything about it being precise because I started off by showing you the Bears got 372 points of excess value. What I said and provided the article to prove is that teams are still using the chart and that future picks are generally discounted by a round.

When I criticisize the idiotic Chase Claypool trade remy will say there was no way the Bears could've known they were giving away pick thirty-second overall.

When its time to heap unconditional praise on Ryan Poles he assumes what the Packers offered for DJ Moore months ago was going to fifteenth overall all along. Just so it boosts the score on his dumb little trade chart, which there is no way of steering him off of.

I dont recall claiming the Bears could not know they were giving up a high pick as this was always a tank year especially after we traded Quinn and Quan. I have been rooting for us to lose as many games this year for most of the season.

That is still largely irrelevant to the convo. The facts are they offered a first round pick and the Panthers delcined. So it establishes that Moore was valued as a first round pick. We also know AJ Brown went for a mid 1st and signed for 25m a year. Moore's stats are comparable to Brown at a similar stage and he will cost 17m a year while being 2.5 months older.

So there is really no logical argument for Moore to be worth less than AJ Brown given comparable stats, same age and Moore coming 7.5m cheaper.

In short your argument is categorically stupid. You want us to ignore a 1st round pick was on the table and also ignore a similar but more expensive player went for a mid 1st round pick.

 

[Bearly]

Again, what does Houston get for telling teams who they are going to pick early?

Or, in other words, why would Houston help the Bears or any other team?

If you want to talk reality, if the Bears had traded with Houston, Houston would have waited until they were on the clock before people would know who they were going to draft. The Bears would have then had 10(?) minutes to trade the 2nd pick.

That's it. End of story.

Even when teams had their QB already picked, they usually waited to announce their player on draft night. Even Peyton Manning was announced on draft night.

Question for you. When will Carolina announce their pick at #1? Next week? April Fools day? The morning of Draft Day? While they are on the clock?

Maybe that article you mentioned has all the answers, but it is behind a pay wall and I do not feel like paying for the CharlotteObesrver.

They get to have the #1 pick. It’s why it’s a qualification to make the move. It doesn’t harm them in any way and they can change if something comes up but that ‘intention’ would allow more significant trade talks for the bear ahead of the draft instead of just the time on the clock. You don’t have to agree but the concept isn’t difficult to understand .

 

[JoJoBoxer]

They get to have the #1 pick. It’s why it’s a qualification to make the move. It doesn’t harm them in any way and they can change if something comes up but that ‘intention’ would allow more significant trade talks for the bear ahead of the draft instead of just the time on the clock. You don’t have to agree but the concept isn’t difficult to understand .

Please read what you just wrote.

They get the #1 pick. Now they have it. Why tell people who they intend to draft?

What do they get out of helping the Bears try to get another trade by announcing who they want?

If you cannot answer that question, you do not have a leg to stand on.

 

[Bearly]

Please read what you just wrote.

They get the #1 pick. Now they have it. Why tell people who they intend to draft?

What do they get out of helping the Bears try to get another trade by announcing who they want?

If you cannot answer that question, you do not have a leg to stand on.

Jesus. I did. Bears don't make the move without that stipulation so they don't get the pick. That was the original premise that you had issue with. They have nothing to lose and if they chose not to comply, fuck em. WTF do they have to lose by stating their intent? They obviously have one if they're willing to move from 2 to 1. If something unforeseen comes up, they can still switch streams but an honest disclosure of intent would help the Poles more significant trade talk for the #2 spot with other teams.

The situation with Carolina is different. They sure weren't going to get the #2 pick so they traded for #1. Once they know who they want, they may let it be known or not. I've seen it done both ways. Won't affect them one bit either way.

 

[JoJoBoxer]

Jesus. I did. Bears don't make the move without that stipulation so they don't get the pick. That was the original premise that you had issue with. They have nothing to lose and if they chose not to comply, fuck em. WTF do they have to lose by stating their intent? They obviously have one if they're willing to move from 2 to 1. If something unforeseen comes up, they can still switch streams but an honest disclosure of intent would help the Poles more significant trade talk for the #2 spot with other teams.

The situation with Carolina is different. They sure weren't going to get the #2 pick so they traded for #1. Once they know who they want, they may let it be known or not. I've seen it done both ways. Won't affect them one bit either way.

Please tell me the last time a team traded up and told everyone who they were going to draft per some stipulation by the team with which they were trading?

I would tell them to go suck an egg. If I lost the trade, so be it.

 

[Bearly]

Please tell me the last time a team traded up and told everyone who they were going to draft per some stipulation by the team with which they were trading?

I would tell them to go suck an egg. If I lost the trade, so be it.

Teams ask about stuff like that on trades a lot but usually simply position. Here, that's known and there's zero downside for Houston. Why would they care since they can change their mind due to anything unforeseen. If they didn't care which guy it was, they wouldn't be in the deal anyway and you think them wanting someone enough to make that move would be squashed if revealing who that is was a stipulation? There is zero penalty for the Texans to do that since their asses are completely covered until they pick. Heck, we often know who's going 1st before the draft.

So Poles trades with Carolina instead. Works for me. I didn't say anything regarding what the Colts should do. I think they're doing the right thing by staying put. I don't get what you're so worked up and indignant about.

 

[JoJoBoxer]

Teams ask about stuff like that on trades a lot but usually simply position. Here, that's known and there's zero downside for Houston. Why would they care since they can change their mind due to anything unforeseen. If they didn't care which guy it was, they wouldn't be in the deal anyway and you think them wanting someone enough to make that move would be squashed if revealing who that is was a stipulation? There is zero penalty for the Texans to do that since their asses are completely covered until they pick. Heck, we often know who's going 1st before the draft.

So Poles trades with Carolina instead. Works for me. I didn't say anything regarding what the Colts should do. I think they're doing the right thing by staying put. I don't get what you're so worked up and indignant about.

Since you do not seem to understand ...

Imagine the Bears trading way early with the Texans and asking them in private who they are going to draft. No, I do not believe that the Texans would officially state who they were going to draft ...

because ...

like I said before: accidents or other detrimental stuff could happen. Like you said, they could back out, but that would make them a-holes for being the first player ever to be stated as the #1 pick who got sick or hurt and then was not drafted by the team that was going to draft them. Bad optics.

but that is not even the worst situation...

Imagine that the Bears had traded with the Texans and the Texans had told the Bears that it was Young all the way. The Bears then assure the Colts that the Texans are going to draft Young and the Colts move up to get their QB1, Stroud.

Seeing that there is over a month before the draft, the Texans do their due diligence and go to every QB's pro day and Stroud impresses them some more, after the combine performance and Young has issues on the intermediate out routes on his pro day. The Texans then bring both QBs to their stadium on visits and Stroud again impresses while Young has problems with his intermediate out routes.

The Texans move on from Young and decide to draft Stroud. Poles takes a hit because the Colts think that he is a liar because the Texans did not draft Young.



How can you explain that the Panthers have not informed the NFL who their pick is going to be at #1? You DO know that there is no team in front of them to take their QB. Why haven't they done it? It would surely help the Texans with their decision at #2, whether to draft their #1 QB, draft another position if their only QB worthy of being drafted at #2 or trade the pick if their QB is gone.

 

[Bearly]

BFD. I said Colts declare their intent so they would take the hit, not private and shit happens. Teams understand that. If they can't declare or offer an overpay to convince otherwise, Poles did the right thing.

I've already explained the Panthers position. It's completely different in terms of Poles' current draft position so he had zero reason to ask or consider making them declare a stipulation. They may not know who they want. They don't have to and Poles couldn't care less. They have the 1st pick.

Texas may not either but then giving up a lot to move one spot seems excessive. They do that if they have a clue on who they prefer or they sit at 2 and take one of the top 2 that are similarly rated. It's what I would do but if they move, they have a preference. Giving their intent doesn't hurt them or anyone else but it would greater empower the trading of #2. If they change their mind, it's just shit happens like every draft and this draft has a great consolation prize.

GMs are very aware about how this goes down. There is risk in the draft. As I said, BFD.

Texans were never a likely trade partner anyway for a few reasons. Colts were that team for the double move but then part 2 wouldn't be there until draft day which makes controlling your situation much more difficult and they seemed to be unsure about what to do. Like I said, I think both the Texans and Poles are doing the right thing. Poles made this move before FA for a reason that would indicate he'd also like to get a projected trade part 2 done early. He owned pick #1 and it's a sellers market. No sequence of events following that move made in good faith would tarnish his future trades. Poles and Cunningham are knowns. Texans are a shit show.

It's a big boy league and some GMs will always have prospect goggles. Nothing changes for the Bear.