Roquan was sought after by some of the best agents and he turned them all down

remydat

CCS Hall of Fame
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
Sep 15, 2012
Posts:
51,399
Liked Posts:
31,095
I appreciate you always taking the contrarian side and the "f. the man" mentality. It always good to see the other side.

I have been involved with complicated negotiations with laypersons and they nearly always make things more difficult because they just don't know the ground rules. We aren't talking about buying a used car here, we are talking about a multi-faceted 8 digit contract and that is only something that a person of extreme experience and qualification should be handling... NOT a layperson.

And one of the worst parts is that the client thinks this "layperson" is a great cheerleader because they tell them everything they want to hear. Sometimes you have to tell your client "this term you want is unreasonable". The cheerleaders never do that. They just keep pumping them up right into a deal not happening. Not having a person of vast experience in a huge career making deal is absolutely foolish.

This is a lot of speculation though. You don't know of his qualifications just that he isn't certified by the NFLPA. If he or his company has lawyers and advisors familiar with contract law then they are not laypeople. They are professionals that are simply not certified by a specific org.

Further as I said it sounds like Quan was not being offered more than Leonard because he expressed that he was open to playing on the tag which is less than what Leonard is getting. Thus any actual NFL agent worth his salt is likely not going to tell Quan to sign for less than Leonard as it would not be a good look for them. You don't sign a lesser deal a year later for a top 3 ILB (from Quan's perspective) unless the client is pushing for it. Again a Drew Rosenhaus is not going to tell him to accept less than Leonard. He has better run and pass coverage stats than Leonard and Leonard only has the advantage in TOs. And he is signing his deal a year later when the cap has gone up 26m. The agent would have been helpful if Quan was asking for the 22m or something crazy but based on his press conference, that does not appear to be the case.
 

remydat

CCS Hall of Fame
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
Sep 15, 2012
Posts:
51,399
Liked Posts:
31,095
A) No one knows factually if any of the backload /de-escalating components actually existed and if so to what degree. And calm heads can always work to solutions that benefit both parties.

B) Saint Omni, being not certified, could not help the players "get deals," all he could do was talk to the player outside of actual negotiations. So he is nothing more than a cheerleader for hire.

C)Part of an agents job is getting the player to understand what is realistic and fair, something that Roquan seems so far from grasping.

I am happy Poles seems to be ice cold and to stick to his core beliefs of value in the business of negotiations. Pace would have pissed himself and given Roquan an EddieJackson/Cody Whitehair/ Tyreek Cohen deal the minute he posted his little letter to the fans.

Gonna be fun watching Roquan pissing up the same rope next offseason

A) We don't but going off of what was reported. If you are going to take the position that no one knows then that always means we don't really know if an agent would have helped or not.

B) Umm yes he could. You still need advisors to read the contract and be able to explain the pros and cons as I assume Quan does not have legal expertise. No one is negotiating a contract by themselves without getting some legal and business advice.

C) Sure but again based off of what Quan said in the press conference it does not appear his demands were unrealistic if he was open to the franchise tag amount.

I have no problem with how Poles handled it now that it appears to be resolved for the year. In the end though the evaluation of how he performed will be based on whether he gets Quan signed long term or gets compensation for him when he leaves. Those are the two outcomes that matter IMO.
 

iueyedoc

Go F you Go F youn again Go F you back to Russia
Donator
Joined:
Aug 21, 2012
Posts:
18,729
Liked Posts:
25,502
Location:
Florida
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
  1. Indiana Hoosiers
A) We don't but going off of what was reported. If you are going to take the position that no one knows then that always means we don't really know if an agent would have helped or not.

B) Umm yes he could. You still need advisors to read the contract and be able to explain the pros and cons as I assume Quan does not have legal expertise. No one is negotiating a contract by themselves without getting some legal and business advice.

C) Sure but again based off of what Quan said in the press conference it does not appear his demands were unrealistic if he was open to the franchise tag amount.

I have no problem with how Poles handled it now that it appears to be resolved for the year. In the end though the evaluation of how he performed will be based on whether he gets Quan signed long term or gets compensation for him when he leaves. Those are the two outcomes that matter IMO.
Funny you accuse @mattb78 of a lot of speculation, but everything you argue is based on the same. In fact, none can do otherwise other than Poles and Roquan.

There is a third outcome, signing Roquan to an Eddie Jackson deal and getting Eddie Jackson production afterwards. Signing Smith to an extension is not an instant win, just as all the hand wringing about not signing James Daniels seems likely to have not been the blunder some have made it out to be.
 

remydat

CCS Hall of Fame
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
Sep 15, 2012
Posts:
51,399
Liked Posts:
31,095
Funny you accuse @mattb78 of a lot of speculation, but everything you argue is based on the same. In fact, none can do otherwise other than Poles and Roquan.

There is a third outcome, signing Roquan to an Eddie Jackson deal and getting Eddie Jackson production afterwards. Signing Smith to an extension is not an instant win, just as all the hand wringing about not signing James Daniels seems likely to have not been the blunder some have made it out to be.

But I concede I am speculating as well. He is free to think Saint Omni really knows nothing about NFL contracts and I am free to think he or others in his company have some legal or business background given he has already been involved in helping other guys with contracts.

And sure, they can sign Quan to a deal and he end up sucking. As I said it time will tell if Poles handled it correctly.
 

mattb78

My threads are FTO !
Joined:
Sep 18, 2012
Posts:
3,407
Liked Posts:
3,773
Location:
Orlando
I am free to think he or others in his company have some legal or business background given he has already been involved in helping other guys with contracts.
You are missing the point. "some legal or business background" is not sufficient for acting as an agent for an 8 figure career contract.

There are tons of regulated industries.. medical, legal, tradesmen, etc. And there is a reason they are regulated.. to ensure that customers are not victimized by unqualified people trying to make a quick buck. The NFLPA even has qualifications for one reason, PLAYER PROTECTION.

If your buddy was sick would you tell him to see "a person that used to work in a doctors office and hey they cured a few people" or would send him to a real doctor?
 

Spitta Andretti

Well-known member
Joined:
Aug 21, 2012
Posts:
4,252
Liked Posts:
6,482
You are missing the point. "some legal or business background" is not sufficient for acting as an agent for an 8 figure career contract.

There are tons of regulated industries.. medical, legal, tradesmen, etc. And there is a reason they are regulated.. to ensure that customers are not victimized by unqualified people trying to make a quick buck. The NFLPA even has qualifications for one reason, PLAYER PROTECTION.

If your buddy was sick would you tell him to see "a person that used to work in a doctors office and hey they cured a few people" or would send him to a real doctor?

I mean this doesn't sound like it will end badly for Roquan at all. Shady guy giving you advice on your money, what can go wrong
 

bearsfan1977

Well-known member
Joined:
Mar 23, 2016
Posts:
1,998
Liked Posts:
1,846
As a lawyer, I can say that the person who chooses to represent himself has a fool for a client. Perhaps in some cases going pro se will work out. But as the stakes go up, things change. I dont care if a person has 20 felony convictions, they still need someone who is emotionally detached and almost assuredly more qualified representing their interests.

That said, all of us are speculating on various issues. The bottom line is whether you would want Poles to pay top ( or close to it) ILB money. I am in the trade him for a pick and allocate resources elsewhere camp. I respect and understand the counter position.

Reasonable people can disagree on this one.
 
Last edited:

Chicoman

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Aug 22, 2012
Posts:
1,141
Liked Posts:
901
Location:
Magic Mushroom Land
5eb14bd685f5404ba65813f5.jpg

That agent money is A LOT of blow and hookers….jus saying
 

remydat

CCS Hall of Fame
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
Sep 15, 2012
Posts:
51,399
Liked Posts:
31,095
You are missing the point. "some legal or business background" is not sufficient for acting as an agent for an 8 figure career contract.

There are tons of regulated industries.. medical, legal, tradesmen, etc. And there is a reason they are regulated.. to ensure that customers are not victimized by unqualified people trying to make a quick buck. The NFLPA even has qualifications for one reason, PLAYER PROTECTION.

If your buddy was sick would you tell him to see "a person that used to work in a doctors office and hey they cured a few people" or would send him to a real doctor?

But again you dont know their backgrounds and they have already been involved in guys getting contracts before.

Also dont think you can compare health with an NFL contract. If Quan wants to take that chance with his money then so be it.

The NFLPA certification is not like those other certifications. As long as you have a law degree and attend a 2 day seminar, you can take the 60 question multiple choice exam. It is also open book and you can bring prepared notes. You can also get the law degree requirement waived if you can show 7 years of negotiating experience.

So it really isnt as complicated as you are suggesting. Most people fail because they dont study for it due to it being open book and they run out of time.

As someone that has passed the CPA and part 1 of the CFA, the Cert exam was a layup (took a mock not the real one)
 
Last edited:

Myk

85in25
Joined:
Sep 27, 2010
Posts:
9,547
Liked Posts:
3,772
Wait, so Omnipants got a job?

Smith is a headcase.
 

CaliBearFan

Well-known member
Joined:
Nov 4, 2012
Posts:
734
Liked Posts:
750

How is it the Bears are the ones not negotiating in good faith?
Who said that weren't? Or that he was? I didn't read that in the article?

Nobody knows the details. On the other side Smith has every right to choose to represent himself and work with a largely unknown and secretive company. That's his life.

Unless anyone of us know exactly what was offered how can we say which party we think is in the wrong?

I'm hoping and expecting that Quan balls out in this defense and causes a lot more turnovers and makes it a problem not to re-sign him to a major contact.

Assuming Fields proves to be the guy and gives dependeble QB play the second half of the year Bears would be dumb not to invest in a proven top 3 most important player in the system.

If Fields is still shaky than anything goes.
 

CaliBearFan

Well-known member
Joined:
Nov 4, 2012
Posts:
734
Liked Posts:
750
Wait, so Omnipants got a job?

Smith is a headcase.
How? Sounds extremely level headed to me and someone who wants to speak for his own when instead of trusting an agent.
 
Last edited:

CaliBearFan

Well-known member
Joined:
Nov 4, 2012
Posts:
734
Liked Posts:
750
It's just not smart on Roquan's part. IDK if it's him just being cheap or what. SOmeone in the know was being nterviewed about this and said the market for good agents is so competitive that many agents charge as low as 1%. Thats nothing when you're talking about a 80-100 million dollar contract. I don't think Roquan liked what he heard in the meetings, something an agent would hve softened the words to Roquan. Roquan was butt hurt about hearing the truth. There is no doubt in my mind that if he had an agent, this deall would have been done.
This is a good point. Listening to Roquan's comments I think it has more to do with trust and wanting to be at the table himself. I could never criticize a man for that.
 

CaliBearFan

Well-known member
Joined:
Nov 4, 2012
Posts:
734
Liked Posts:
750
Roquan was more pissed of about the deescalators and it being back loaded. The total of the deal from everything I have heard was quite generous. That combined with Roquan not being able to handle negative things being said about him is what killed these negotiations. No doubt that with an agent this would have gotten done.
A lot of assumptions here.
Do you understand what deescalators are?
It's back loaded money at the end of the contract that the team can walk away from with little to no penalty that can make the deal look a lot bigger than it is.
None of us know the amount guaranteed. How are you proclaiming you know what killed the deal and weather or not an agent could have gotten it done?

I suspect that Roquan is correct that almost all players with agents take the word that they got them the best deal possible and just sign in the dotted line.
Roquan wants to buck the system and people think he's unstable. Watch his video at the podium and see if you really see an unstable person or someone who thinks outside the system and knows their worth.
 

CaliBearFan

Well-known member
Joined:
Nov 4, 2012
Posts:
734
Liked Posts:
750
Say Roquan Smith balls out this season, how much does anyone imagine he gains in value?
Is he worth $25M/yr? Even at DPOY that seems unlikely.
If so, as the Bears you simply franchise him at $18.5M and again the next season for $22M.

Does he sign an extension forShaq Leonard #'s at $19.7/season?

If so was it worth not having an extra $20M earning more money for a yr while risking career altering injury?

Barring a complete lowball offer at around $14-15M, which would be impossible unless Poles completely lied to the press, I see no upside to Smith carrying this ove for another season.
It's not about the annual pay. It's about the guaranteed. If you look at Leonard's not much more than half of the total contact is guaranteed.
 

CaliBearFan

Well-known member
Joined:
Nov 4, 2012
Posts:
734
Liked Posts:
750
You are missing the point. "some legal or business background" is not sufficient for acting as an agent for an 8 figure career contract.

There are tons of regulated industries.. medical, legal, tradesmen, etc. And there is a reason they are regulated.. to ensure that customers are not victimized by unqualified people trying to make a quick buck. The NFLPA even has qualifications for one reason, PLAYER PROTECTION.

If your buddy was sick would you tell him to see "a person that used to work in a doctors office and hey they cured a few people" or would send him to a real doctor?
Be honest. Most of these industries are shady and corrupt themselves. If you look deeply into any industry you will find the shocking corruption and bullshit that everyone assumes only happens in their industry.
If I trusted the experts I would have had unnecessary surgeries and been on medication as is a majority of the adult population. The system is broken and appealing to experts in a broken system is ignorant.
I don't know nearly enough about the NFL agent world but if Roquan wants a seat at the table now power to him.
 

Spitta Andretti

Well-known member
Joined:
Aug 21, 2012
Posts:
4,252
Liked Posts:
6,482
Who said that weren't? Or that he was? I didn't read that in the article?

Nobody knows the details. On the other side Smith has every right to choose to represent himself and work with a largely unknown and secretive company. That's his life.

Unless anyone of us know exactly what was offered how can we say which party we think is in the wrong?

I'm hoping and expecting that Quan balls out in this defense and causes a lot more turnovers and makes it a problem not to re-sign him to a major contact.

Assuming Fields proves to be the guy and gives dependeble QB play the second half of the year Bears would be dumb not to invest in a proven top 3 most important player in the system.

If Fields is still shaky than anything goes.

Roquan said the Bears weren't negotiating in good faith
 

Top