Saints Cut OG Warford

[The Big Grabowski]

This is one of the smaller story lines that interests me for the 2020 season. Foles is very adept at pre-snap reads and calling or shifting pass protections at the line. Curious to see if the Bears try Daniels at C again if/when they move Foles to starter.

Agreed but I'm not sure if they make that move when Foles isn't the established starter. Adam Jahns mentioned the position in his roster projection on The Athletic today.

Under O-line, which he ranked as the 2nd highest concern behind QB, Jahns wrote: "Nagy has said that Cody Whitehair should stick at center. Moving James Daniels back to guard turned out to be a positive last season."

 

[playthrough2001]

And there you have it Leon. Dodges again.

Judging the team as a whole and judging how he did with the OL are not mutually exclusive. So it is disingenuous to pretend you can only do one.

It is quite laughable to suggest you can't evaluate how he addressed the biggest need of the offseason but in any event you have my post and I am on record as being willing to credit him in 4 out of 5 situations. So let's quit with the false narrative I am being unfair to him. I am on record. You hiding behind some torturous logic that you cant evaluate him on his OL moves.

The Bears o-line was rough last year for sure but I hope you understand Pace doesn’t make these decisions in a vacuum. He has Pro Personel guys, a head coach and a position coach in Castillo that are all providing feedback. Plus, you fail to acknowledge that Pace may have received less than stellar information about Warford from Loomis.

If Warford goes to another team and does well in a system that doesn’t fit what he would be asked to here, is that a mistake by Pace?

Also, he signed Ifedi when Warford was under contract so they don’t exactly correlate in the sense that Pace preferred Ifedi over Warford.

On top of that, how do you know Warford is even interested in coming to Chicago? I don’t know anything about his personal life and preferences.

It’s always against my better judgement to engage with you because you’re the kind of person that only wants to hear your bullshit validated and regurgitated back to you.

 

[remydat]

All those guys are Pace's responsibilty so not sure your point. The dude is paid 5 million to run the team. That is a lot of money to be making excuses if he or his hand picked head coach picked the wrong coaches like say Hiestand and Helfrich.

Pace is paid to fix areas of deficiency. If the OL sucks then all of the excuses in the world dont absolve him for that. You are just looking for an out. If Warford excels in another scheme but Ifedi and Pace's hand chosen guys suck then guess what that is still his fault. Like holy shit who do you want me to blame if the OL still sucks? The Ghost of Mike McCaskey?

It is against your better judgement because you are running out of places to hide. If the OL is a success then I will give Pace credit no matter if that success is Castillo, scouts or Nagy because Pace is the GM. The buck stops with him and he hired all those guys.

If the OL sucks then he deserves the blame but you are too much of a homer to simply acknowledge that so you are trying to find others to blame or claiming you cant evaluate the OL moves by themselves.

Imagine claiming it is bullshit to hold thr GM accountable for the team he assembled. SMH!

 

[remydat]

It is funny to watch Leon's whole argument backfire. He accused me of bashing Pace no matter what but I have given 4 out of t scenarios where I would say I was wrong.

Meanwhile you are doing what Leon accused me of and finding every excuse not to hold Pace accountable for the OL.

You cosigning Leon's post yet hypocritically guilty of doing what he alleged. Unreal!

 

[HearshotKDS]

Agreed but I'm not sure if they make that move when Foles isn't the established starter. Adam Jahns mentioned the position in his roster projection on The Athletic today.

Under O-line, which he ranked as the 2nd highest concern behind QB, Jahns wrote: "Nagy has said that Cody Whitehair should stick at center. Moving James Daniels back to guard turned out to be a positive last season."

Optimistic to hear the Nagy quote, I'm a big fan of "its not broke, stop trying to fix it" with regards to Whitehair and Daniels positions. Was worried they would try to out think themselves again and try the switch one more time in 2020 with Foles as QB.

 

[nc0gnet0]

Well Ifedi is big and can move some. The problem is he moves right past the guy he was supposed to block without actually blocking him. Then has to grab onto them to compensate.

Actually, he usually moves before the snap. And although I have agreed with you in this thread, I would see a gauge of Pace's success/failure in regards to the OL as if they are in the top half of the league........say anywhere from #16 to #1. If they are a little lower, say #17 to #21, then meh, did ok not great, and lower than #21, he shit the bed.

 

[The Big Grabowski]

Optimistic to hear the Nagy quote, I'm a big fan of "its not broke, stop trying to fix it" with regards to Whitehair and Daniels positions. Was worried they would try to out think themselves again and try the switch one more time in 2020 with Foles as QB.

Considering how young Daniels is (just 22 I think), I agree it's best to keep him in one position. Let him settle in and build confidence and chemistry with the guys next to him.

Kreutz had some nice things to say about the kid. He talked about Daniels going 1-on-1 against Kenny Clark in the opener. There was a block he saw that only 1 or 2 guys in the league could make. Daniels clearly needs to take steps forward in development, but the talent is obvious.

The problem is we say that about way too many players on offense (Trubisky, Daniels, Miller). Hopefully we'll see progress this year.

 

[truthbedamned]

Totally OT but do you guys agree that most tackles (especially GB) move before the snap on almost every play?

 

[remydat]

Actually, he usually moves before the snap. And although I have agreed with you in this thread, I would see a gauge of Pace's success/failure in regards to the OL as if they are in the top half of the league........say anywhere from #16 to #1. If they are a little lower, say #17 to #21, then meh, did ok not great, and lower than #21, he shit the bed.

I have no problem with that.

 

[elbandido]

Totally OT but do you guys agree that most tackles (especially GB) move before the snap on almost every play?

Not all...only the ones present at the snap lol... Now having "duct tape hands"Bulaga in L.A. is good news to me,( and for Mack I'm sure...)

 

[remydat]

Totally OT but do you guys agree that most tackles (especially GB) move before the snap on almost every play?

If you mean right before the snap where they back up then have noticed that quite a bit. Almost like if they arr just a hear before the snap count the refs let it slide.

 

[SlickWilly]

Agreed but I'm not sure if they make that move when Foles isn't the established starter. Adam Jahns mentioned the position in his roster projection on The Athletic today.

Under O-line, which he ranked as the 2nd highest concern behind QB, Jahns wrote: "Nagy has said that Cody Whitehair should stick at center. Moving James Daniels back to guard turned out to be a positive last season."

It blows me away that I keep hearing this. I saw the same dogshit play from the O-line all year long whether Daniels or Whitehair played Center.

 

[Leon Sandcastle]

As a matter of fact, let me box myself in right now.

1. If Warford is signed and sucks then I was wrong and you guys were right.

2. If Warford signs and is good then Pace deserves credit.

3. If Warford signs for another team and sucks and the Bears OL is good then Pace deserves credit.

4. If Warford signs for another team and he is good but the Bears OL is also good then Pace deserves credit.

5. If Warford signs for another team and he is good and the Bears OL sucks balls then Pace deserves extreme criticism.

I have literally gone on record now and in 4 out of 5 scenarios I am admitting I was wrong.

Now are you guys going to man up and go on record in scenario 5 as I have been asking playthrough for pages and he keeps dancing like he is auditioning for dancing with the stars.

Feel free to copy and paste this thread and it is post 514. I await you and playthrough going on record. Thanks in advance.

Somehow you think i think Warford sucks or will suck? Do tell?
There are many many many reasons why a GM may or may not sign a player. I want Warford. Not going to call Pace out for not signing him without knowing the reason though.
If Pace thinks signing Warford will make the team better and can afford him and just decides for no reason that he just doesnt want him then yes, i think that would be a mistake

 

[remydat]

Somehow you think i think Warford sucks or will suck? Do tell?
There are many many many reasons why a GM may or may not sign a player. I want Warford. Not going to call Pace out for not signing him without knowing the reason though.
If Pace thinks signing Warford will make the team better and can afford him and just decides for no reason that he just doesnt want him then yes, i think that would be a mistake

No I dont think you think Warford sucks. I think you and others refuse to hold Pace accountable.

You claim I only want to bash him but when I answer your challenge, you dont want to do the same.

 

[Tjodalv]

No I dont think you think Warford sucks. I think you and others refuse to hold Pace accountable.

How about waiting for something to hold him accountable for in this situation? None of us have any idea what is going on. Is Warford still a badass? Asking for an obscene payday? A cripple?

If he signs a reasonable deal somewhere and plays like we would expect, then by all means bitch away; but you've spent three solid weeks complaining about a situation of which you have no knowledge.

 

[remydat]

How about waiting for something to hold him accountable for in this situation? None of us have any idea what is going on. Is Warford still a badass? Asking for an obscene payday? A cripple?

If he signs a reasonable deal somewhere and plays like we would expect, then by all means bitch away; but you've spent three solid weeks complaining about a situation of which you have no knowledge.

You are confused most likely because you didnt read the whole thread.

Nothing short of saying Pace is the worst GM in the history of the NFL will suffice for Remy.
If he signs Warford and he sucks....Pace is an idiot.
If he signs Warford and he is good......It was a no brainer that any GM could have seen.
If he doesnt sign Warford and he sucks for another team.....Pace was just lucky.
If he doesnt sign Warford and he is good for another team....Pace is an idiot

Understanding that mistakes happen equals thinking Pace can do no wrong

As a matter of fact, let me box myself in right now.

1. If Warford is signed and sucks then I was wrong and you guys were right.

2. If Warford signs and is good then Pace deserves credit.

3. If Warford signs for another team and sucks and the Bears OL is good then Pace deserves credit.

4. If Warford signs for another team and he is good but the Bears OL is also good then Pace deserves credit.

5. If Warford signs for another team and he is good and the Bears OL sucks balls then Pace deserves extreme criticism.

I have literally gone on record now and in 4 out of 5 scenarios I am admitting I was wrong.

Now are you guys going to man up and go on record in scenario 5 as I have been asking playthrough for pages and he keeps dancing like he is auditioning for dancing with the stars.

Feel free to copy and paste this thread and it is post 514. I await you and playthrough going on record. Thanks in advance.

Leon made a bullshit claim about me only wanting to bash Pace. He presented several future scenarios. I responded to them and in 4 out of 5 scenarios, I would admit I was wrong. I then asked if he would agree to criticize Pace in the 5th scenario. He is now copping pleas.

So I am not talking about holding him accountable now. I am asking him to man up and agree on scenerio 5 as it is pretty disingenuous to claim I only want to bash Pace then when I am more than fair, you want to make excuses for scenario 5.

I mean he was the one that presented the bulk of the options but now that one of them ends in criticizing Pace, suddenly he wants to quibble with them. Just seems no matter what, some will always excuse Pace.

 

[Tjodalv]

You are confused most likely because you didnt read the whole thread.






Leon made a bullshit claim about me only wanting to bash Pace. He presented several future scenarios. I responded to them and in 4 out of 5 scenarios, I would admit I was wrong. I then asked if he would agree to criticize Pace in the 5th scenario. He is now copping pleas.

So I am not talking about holding him accountable now. I am asking him to man up and agree on scenerio 5 as it is pretty disingenuous to claim I only want to bash Pace then when I am more than fair, you want to make excuses for scenario 5.

I mean he was the one that presented the bulk of the options but now that one of them ends in criticizing Pace, suddenly he wants to quibble with them. Just seems no matter what, some will always excuse Pace.

Yes, I appologize for not reading 536 posts of bitchfighting about a subject which neither of you have any pertinent information on.

 

[BaBaBlacksheep]

It’s nice to know that no matter crazy the world gets, in here the Remy Vortex keeps on blowing. ?

 

[remydat]

Yes, I appologize for not reading 536 posts of bitchfighting about a subject which neither of you have any pertinent information on.

Apology accepted.

 

[Sculpt]

Optimistic to hear the Nagy quote, I'm a big fan of "its not broke, stop trying to fix it" with regards to Whitehair and Daniels positions. Was worried they would try to out think themselves again and try the switch one more time in 2020 with Foles as QB.

I didn't mind the switch. Daniels was a Center in college, and he's a smaller lineman 6'3" 305lbs (as Centers tend to be). Reading draft profiles, he's quick, but not quite big/strong enough for G/T. He's better suited to Center. Whitehair played LT, but his draft profiles say the same thing about him, he's not quite strong enough for G/T 6'3" 309lbs) and short arms, he was also projected for Center. They are both 'Zone Blocking Centers'.

They're both suited for Zone blocking for their speed and technique, but both lack size and strength for G. Daniels may have been better as C, and Whitehair had already gained more strength through his prior year in the NFL to handle G better than Daniels. They both need to do better. Whatever the OL experts think is fine by me. I don't think anything is obvious here.

It blows me away that I keep hearing this. I saw the same dogshit play from the O-line all year long whether Daniels or Whitehair played Center.

I haven't paid for access to watch these two closely, but I hadn't noticed either player playing better after the switch either.