Saints Cut OG Warford

napo55

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The RemyVortex is going to consume the known universe before this dude signs with anyone.

If they applied as much attention to a worthwhile project,such as curing cancer, or world peace, we would be in a far better position.
 

Bearly

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The RemyVortex is going to consume the known universe before this dude signs with anyone.
Trust me, you're already in it looking out. I'd say you already squeezed through that black hole but with tensions what they are...
 

HearshotKDS

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I didn't mind the switch. Daniels was a Center in college, and he's a smaller lineman 6'3" 305lbs (as Centers tend to be). Reading draft profiles, he's quick, but not quite big/strong enough for G/T. He's better suited to Center. Whitehair played LT, but his draft profiles say the same thing about him, he's not quite strong enough for G/T 6'3" 309lbs) and short arms, he was also projected for Center. They are both 'Zone Blocking Centers'.

My problem with the switch is: regardless of what Daniels did in college, in the NFL he has been a bad center, but an average guard. We need average guards a lot more than we need bad centers.
 

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My problem with the switch is: regardless of what Daniels did in college, in the NFL he has been a bad center, but an average guard. We need average guards a lot more than we need bad centers.
He's not 'bad' at center. He just wasn't ready to cover for Coward or recognize coverages as well as Whitehair could.
 

HearshotKDS

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He's not 'bad' at center. He just wasn't ready to cover for Coward or recognize coverages as well as Whitehair could.
These are bad excuses, recognizing coverages is a part of the position and Mitch is still on the team so it's still very much an issue until he's benched (I expect Foles will do fine calling protection at the line). And the RG will once again be the most inexperienced player on the OL, whether it's Ifedi or Coward again. So if Daniel wasn't ready to play C last year because of the QB and RG, it looks like he is still not ready to play C because of the same damn issues.

Daniels might very well be a decent C later in his career, I just don't want the Bears to sabotage another year trying to do it too early.
 

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Daniels' snaps let Mitch watch the field instead of the ball and get to him faster as spirals. I said when drafted that Whitehair fits as center but really, if he can't do proper shotgun snaps Daniels is the better option if he doesn't need the to cover for somebody else.
 

HearshotKDS

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Daniels' snaps let Mitch watch the field instead of the ball and get to him faster as spirals. I said when drafted that Whitehair fits as center but really, if he can't do proper shotgun snaps Daniels is the better option if he doesn't need the to cover for somebody else.
Whitehair has his warts and youve identified a big one. But drop the somebody else, we know who that is right now its not a hypothetical. "if he doesn't need the to cover for Bars, Coward, or Ifedi" - when you write it out like that my alarm bells go off. I think "Oh shit, there's a really good chance the Center WILL have to cover for one of those 3. None of them have a proven history at Guard in the NFL". And that makes it an easy decision.
 

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Whitehair has his warts and youve identified a big one. But drop the somebody else, we know who that is right now its not a hypothetical. "if he doesn't need the to cover for Bars, Coward, or Ifedi" - when you write it out like that my alarm bells go off. I think "Oh shit, there's a really good chance the Center WILL have to cover for one of those 3. None of them have a proven history at Guard in the NFL". And that makes it an easy decision.
Because it worked out so well last year, LOL? Put them where they belong and let them develop. You want good and are promoting a continuation of a stop gap.
 

HearshotKDS

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Because it worked out so well last year, LOL? Put them where they belong and let them develop. You want good and are promoting a continuation of a stop gap.
They improved after the switch, noted by eye test, local and national media.
 

Bearly

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No one argued that they didn't. They still weren't good enough. If Whitehair could snap a spiral I may agree and I was one of the few that wanted Whitehair at C in 2018 and I got shit for that too.

There were obvious coaching and player deficiencies on the OL in 2019 that have hopefully been somewhat corrected. Daniel taking his 1st NFL snaps at C in those conditions did take a toll but he's a natural C and actually had a higher PFF :rolleyes:individual blocking grade than Whitehair. Something your article conveniently failed to mention. Also, comparing Whitehairs 2016 grade to last year is just a silly manipulation of stats. Different scheme, different coaches etc, etc. By the way, it was a local reporter that wrote that. Gene Chamberlain - Chicago Tribune There's a reason that wasn't obvious. His articles are space fillers that are about as good as Bleacher Report.
 
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HearshotKDS

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No one argued that they didn't. They still weren't good enough. If Whitehair could snap a spiral I may agree and I was one of the few that wanted Whitehair at C in 2018 and I got shit for that too.

So you agree they got better after switching back to Daniels LG and Whitehair C, but you still want to put Daniels back at C because reasons. Got it.

Disagree with your logic there, sounds kinda stupid. I'm sure I'm missing something here though.

Edit: I apologize for the slur, it was uncalled for.
 
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Bearly

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So you agree they got better after switching back to Daniels LG and Whitehair C, but you still want to put Daniels back at C because reasons. Got it.

Disagree with your logic there, sounds kinda Special person. I'm sure I'm missing something here though.
If your reasoning is so simple that you can't comprehend basic concepts on long term team building, I can't help you further. I tried to have a reasonable convo with you. You certainly didn't need to agree but this? Fuck you. By the way, my daughter is handicapped. I hope your children never need to deal with this but you can personally EAT SHIT AND DIE. Let me repeat, grow up and FUCK YOU!!!.
 

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No they fucking didn't. Watch the GB game in Lambeau for proof of that.
If it was up to you, what would you do? Seems to me they are both Centers, except that Whitehair has had some problems snapping the ball. I really wish Whitehair had done better at G, but he had done well in the past at C. I don't know.
 

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I was promoting Cody for center since he was drafted but that snap just isn't good enough. Other than that, he's extremely well suited for the position. I'm good either way but I think the team is better with where they started last year. He was extended as a G and both he and Daniel should be at home at their drafted for positions with more reps. Of course it's not a given but it's what would be best for the team long term and obviously their desire going forward.

Cody can probably even play a non disastrous T in a pinch. He'll be fine but the point of optimizing their positions is to become more than fine( they weren't either way) and actually become good.
 

remydat

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What the Bears are missing are a couple of guys that can move but also have the strength to hold their own against bigger nose tackle types. The whole OL are not going to pull on the same run play and having these guys that can move isn't as effective if the play gets blown up before they can use that mobility because the guys left behind can't hold their own.

So if Cody is pulling on a given play, is Daniels strong enough to stop the NT from pushing him too far back? What if Daniels is pulling? Can Cody hold down the fort? In the past you had two finesse guys in Long and Cody on the line but you also had Sitton, Long and Massie who were strong enough when all healthy to allow the finesse guys to work. Leno and Sitton were also fluid enough to pull from time to him.

Now you just have a bunch of mobile soft guys that get pushed around far too easily particularly with Massie being banged up as he is probably the only one left with above average NFL strength when healthy.
 

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The other weird thing in all of this is Nagy came here is a guy that wanted to run about 60% zone and 40% gap. By contrast Fox was running 80% zone and 40% gap. Yet Fox had a bit more of a balanced approach with 2 finesse guys (Leno, Whitehair), 1 gap guy (Massie) and 2 hybrids (Long, Sitton).

Nagy by contrast appears to be looking for mainly mobile guys but if those guys don't have strength or power, they generally are going to suck when trying to run the 40% gap blocking. So don't know if the plan is to abandon gap but the whole premise of why he had Howard running more gap than Fox did is that it made the RPOs easier to disguise as the gap blocking looks more like a pass drop whereas a zone block tips the D that it more likely a run play.
 

SlickWilly

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If it was up to you, what would you do? Seems to me they are both Centers, except that Whitehair has had some problems snapping the ball. I really wish Whitehair had done better at G, but he had done well in the past at C. I don't know.

Well we do have a new O-line coach, and my guess is he's gonna put Daniels at C.
 

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