Shams: Bulls, Clippers to be interested in Lonzo Ball

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  • Lonzo Ball update: New Orleans is unlikely to match a significant offer sheet on Ball, sources said. Ball, 23, is among the top point guards on the free-agent market. The Bulls and Clippers are expected to be among the teams interested in him, according to sources. Ball averaged career-highs in points (14.6) and 3-point shooting (37.8) this past season.
 

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If we got him on a fair deal, I wouldn't mind it. He's a pretty good defender, and has good vision/awareness on the court. But his shooting/scoring struggles limits him.

Given how high contracts have been getting (even for average players), I worry about how much Ball will demand. if it's north of 25 million/year, no thanks.
 

Enasic

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If we got him on a fair deal, I wouldn't mind it. He's a pretty good defender, and has good vision/awareness on the court. But his shooting/scoring struggles limits him.

Given how high contracts have been getting (even for average players), I worry about how much Ball will demand. if it's north of 25 million/year, no thanks.
Agreed and I’d be hesitant at even 20 mil per. Fills a need, sure, but isn’t a great player. You’re banking on continued development. Not good at creating his own shot or finishing at the rim. Just posted career highs in PER (15) and WS/48 (0.89) which are both meh as you can get. I like the outside shooting and he’s a solid passer that doesn’t get a ton of assists. Good defender albeit not elite. This will all come down to price. I don’t believe smart franchises overpay for guys like ball.
 

knoxville7

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If we got him on a fair deal, I wouldn't mind it. He's a pretty good defender, and has good vision/awareness on the court. But his shooting/scoring struggles limits him.

Given how high contracts have been getting (even for average players), I worry about how much Ball will demand. if it's north of 25 million/year, no thanks.
Shooting/scoring problems? Please elaborate. I feel as though you’re focusing on his rookie year

also, not so much directed at you but the notion we need our PG to be able to create his own shot is just silly. That’s what Lavine and Vuc and to a lesser extent coby can do. We need a Pg that will get those guys the ball in their spots and who can hit an open jump shot when the double teams go to Lavine or Vuc
 

knoxville7

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Agreed and I’d be hesitant at even 20 mil per. Fills a need, sure, but isn’t a great player. You’re banking on continued development. Not good at creating his own shot or finishing at the rim. Just posted career highs in PER (15) and WS/48 (0.89) which are both meh as you can get. I like the outside shooting and he’s a solid passer that doesn’t get a ton of assists. Good defender albeit not elite. This will all come down to price. I don’t believe smart franchises overpay for guys like ball.

doesnt get a ton of assists? The guy has a career avg of 6.4 assists per game and he’s only 23 years old.
 

Enasic

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doesnt get a ton of assists? The guy has a career avg of 6.4 assists per game and he’s only 23 years old.
He averaged 6 last season which is one less than coby white. His career high is 7. 6 isn’t really a ton of assists for a guy who has the rep of a great passer. 5.7 ApG last season playing with Zion Williamson and Brandon Ingram. Not super impressive.
 

knoxville7

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I'm for it. Need a true PG in here. Let Coby come off the bench.

nice thing is if it gets into a battle between the bulls and clippers…the clippers have less cap flexibility than the bulls do. I’m more concerned if the knicks get involved at what the price ends up being. Fortunately, reports on the knicks say their FO is split on whether or not to pursue Lonzo
 

knoxville7

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He averaged 6 last season which is one less than coby white. His career high is 7. 6 isn’t really a ton of assists for a guy who has the rep of a great passer. 5.7 ApG last season playing with Zion Williamson and Brandon Ingram. Not super impressive.

no, it is not one less than coby. Coby avg just under 5. Balls career avg would of put him top 20 in the league last year on a poor team. Also, it’s worth noting balls usage rate was only the 4th highest on the team

And if you actually believe coby is as good of a ball handler and passer then you’ve clearly never watched both of them play

also, Ingram isn’t someone you get assists off of. He goes iso too much. Ball had lebron his rookie year and avg over 7 assists a game.
 

Enasic

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no, it is not one less than coby. Coby avg just under 5. Balls career avg would of put him top 20 in the league last year on a poor team. Also, it’s worth noting balls usage rate was only the 4th highest on the team

And if you actually believe coby is as good of a ball handler and passer then you’ve clearly never watched both of them play

also, Ingram isn’t someone you get assists off of. He goes iso too much. Ball had lebron his rookie year and avg over 7 assists a game.
Never said coby was as good of a ball handler but cobys first season as the starting PG he averaged 1 less assist than Ball (4.8 vs 5.7) and coby is only 20 years old learning a new position.

Either way, Ball is an average player evidenced by the eye test, PER, WS/48. He doesn’t do anything great at all. He’s a jack of all trades type master of none. I’d be interested at 15-20 mil per. Would not even entertain going over that. He’s not the type you overpay teams will regret it
 

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I think the NBA is going through another TV deal in the next year or so, so the cap is going to get higher (theoretically). So $20-25 million might end up being a decent deal.

THAT SAID, I’m not sure what Ball has done thus far in his career gives him that negotiating power. You would be betting big on him in the short term.
 

knoxville7

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Never said coby was as good of a ball handler but cobys first season as the starting PG he averaged 1 less assist than Ball (4.8 vs 5.7) and coby is only 20 years old learning a new position.

Either way, Ball is an average player evidenced by the eye test, PER, WS/48. He doesn’t do anything great at all. He’s a jack of all trades type master of none. I’d be interested at 15-20 mil per. Would not even entertain going over that. He’s not the type you overpay teams will regret it

i don’t get where you keep pulling your numbers from. Balls rookie year he avg 7.2 assists per game. Cobys rookie year he avg 2.7 assists per game

if you want to compare age 20 seasons. Ball avg the 7.2 assists per game in what was that rookie season. Coby in his age 20 season avg 4.8 assists per game.

as far as not doing anything great…being a jack of all trades is what the bulls need at the pg spot. They need someone who is solid at every aspect of the game and position.

ball has the size and length you want as well.

15-20 mil per is probably exactly what it will take, so you’re saying you’re on board lol
 

Enasic

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i don’t get where you keep pulling your numbers from. Balls rookie year he avg 7.2 assists per game. Cobys rookie year he avg 2.7 assists per game

if you want to compare age 20 seasons. Ball avg the 7.2 assists per game in what was that rookie season. Coby in his age 20 season avg 4.8 assists per game.

as far as not doing anything great…being a jack of all trades is what the bulls need at the pg spot. They need someone who is solid at every aspect of the game and position.

ball has the size and length you want as well.

15-20 mil per is probably exactly what it will take, so you’re saying you’re on board lol
Stated pretty clearly I was using last years numbers. Yes, ball averaged 7 APG his rookie year. Last year he averaged a shade under 6.

Ball was also a natural PG. Coby was a bench scorer his rookie year. Last season, at 20 years old, was his first year as a starting PG. it was a completely new position for him and he averaged 4.7 APG. Definite bumps in the road and not a finished product, but overall I thought he did a good job. His defense was more of a hinderance than his passsing.

I also think lonzo gets more than 20 mil per. Teams always get desperate in free agency
 

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Stated pretty clearly I was using last years numbers. Yes, ball averaged 7 APG his rookie year. Last year he averaged a shade under 6.

Ball was also a natural PG. Coby was a bench scorer his rookie year. Last season, at 20 years old, was his first year as a starting PG. it was a completely new position for him and he averaged 4.7 APG. Definite bumps in the road and not a finished product, but overall I thought he did a good job. His defense was more of a hinderance than his passsing.

I also think lonzo gets more than 20 mil per. Teams always get desperate in free agency

it was not a new position for him. Coby has played point guard his whole life. It’s what he played at N Carolina too. Let’s not pretend it’s some foreign position to him. Coby just isn’t good at it is all. Since you like to mention those metrics. Coby had a negative VORP, meaning he was worse than a replacement player. Lonzo had a 1.6 VORP

only way Lonzo gets more than 20 mil is if the knicks enter the fray. There aren’t a lot of teams with that kind of cap room/flexibility in the league right now. Thad and satos contracts are unique in how they were structured, too. Not a common thing
 

Enasic

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it was not a new position for him. Coby has played point guard his whole life. It’s what he played at N Carolina too. Let’s not pretend it’s some foreign position to him. Coby just isn’t good at it is all

only way Lonzo gets more than 20 mil is if the knicks enter the fray. There aren’t a lot of teams with that kind of cap room/flexibility in the league right now. Thad and satos contracts are unique in how they were structured, too. Not a common thing

Coby has never been a natural PG. his role was always more of a scorer it’s silly to insinuate otherwise. Even BD talked about it last season. You cite ball being 23 and could improve but don’t cite this for coby who is 3 years younger
 

knoxville7

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Coby has never been a natural PG. his role was always more of a scorer it’s silly to insinuate otherwise. Even BD talked about it last season. You cite ball being 23 and could improve but don’t cite this for coby who is 3 years younger

i never said coby can’t improve. Show me where I said that? What I did say is coby had a negative VORP, meaning he was a below average player. Ball had a VORP of 1.6. For perspective Lavine had a 2.9 and Vuc had a 4.2. Meaning they are all above average players…you know, like starting quality
 

Enasic

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VORP is one of the worst advanced stats but that’s fine. Coby def needs to improve in some key areas no disputing that
 

knoxville7

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VORP is one of the worst advanced stats but that’s fine. Coby def needs to improve in some key areas no disputing that

got ya. You bring up certain advanced metrics, it’s cool. I bring one up that doesn’t fit your narrative and it’s “one of the worst advanced metrics.”

:crazy:
 

Enasic

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got ya. You bring up certain advanced metrics, it’s cool. I bring one up that doesn’t fit your narrative and it’s “one of the worst advanced metrics.”

:crazy:

PER and W/S are both much better than VORP I’d be shocked if you found even a handful of people who disagree. But sure, maybe I’m crazy
 

knoxville7

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Ball did almost double cobys WS/48 since you used that once it must be legit, yeah?
 

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