Shams: Bulls, Clippers to be interested in Lonzo Ball

Scoot26

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paul comes in at 26th in PER so you’re not far off. The difference is scoot doesn’t think there are 26 superstars in the league, and he’s right. And Paul is no longer one of them. Hell of a good player, but not on the super star level.

superstar caliber guys today are
Giannis
Luka
Steph curry
Lebron(although fading)
Jokic
Embiid
Kawhi
Durant

with trae young and Zion knocking on that door
PER is only a part of the equation, and likely to become less of the equation in my criteria as too many players are crossing the 20.0 PER threshold. I also consider overall stat numbers, making All-NBA 1st/2nd consistently, team success, awards or MVP vote shares, obviously consistency, and ability to make clutch baskets coupled in with an eye test.

Your list, I agree with completely, though Harden still makes my list even with his rather down year this season. Also Lillard makes the list on the back end. I had a hard time including him for awhile because he kinda just didn't do it for me in the eye test, but after some review, dude is clutch, he's dragged the Blazers to the WCF, though generally he is a first round loser. KG was a similar thing in Minnesota though. First round loses every year except 03-04.

Trae and Zion are absolutely knocking, and a few guys like Tatum and Mitchell have outside chances of becoming supers.
 

Scoot26

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Devin Booker is also knocking on that door.
Don't see it. Booker is incredibly inefficient in an era where so many are efficient. He didn't even hit 20.0 PER this season. His two all-star appearances are as a replacement player. Has not made All-NBA anything.

He's young, so he has a chance to get better and peak. But if this is his peak, he's nothing but a 3rd tier star.
 

knoxville7

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PER is only a part of the equation, and likely to become less of the equation in my criteria as too many players are crossing the 20.0 PER threshold. I also consider overall stat numbers, making All-NBA 1st/2nd consistently, team success, awards or MVP vote shares, obviously consistency, and ability to make clutch baskets coupled in with an eye test.

Your list, I agree with completely, though Harden still makes my list even with his rather down year this season. Also Lillard makes the list on the back end. I had a hard time including him for awhile because he kinda just didn't do it for me in the eye test, but after some review, dude is clutch, he's dragged the Blazers to the WCF, though generally he is a first round loser. KG was a similar thing in Minnesota though. First round loses every year except 03-04.

Trae and Zion are absolutely knocking, and a few guys like Tatum and Mitchell have outside chances of becoming supers.

I agree PER is overrated. It’s just one of the few stats that certain people on here will recognize

I disagree with you on harden. I dont view him as a superstar and never have

Tatum and Mitchell are in that 2nd tier of guys IMO

besides, if you include harden and soon to be Tatum and Mitchell and you’re going over your 10 player threshold lol

and totally agree on Booker. Lavine is better than Booker
 

clonetrooper264

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I agree PER is overrated. It’s just one of the few stats that certain people on here will recognize

I disagree with you on harden. I dont view him as a superstar and never have

Tatum and Mitchell are in that 2nd tier of guys IMO

besides, if you include harden and soon to be Tatum and Mitchell and you’re going over your 10 player threshold lol

and totally agree on Booker. Lavine is better than Booker
If he adds either or both of Tatum and Mitchell he'll drop someone off his existing list. It truly is a 10 player cap
 

knoxville7

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If he adds either or both of Tatum and Mitchell he'll drop someone off his existing list. It truly is a 10 player cap

id be curious as to what 2 guys he would remove from the list then…because I don’t see anyone coming off of it in the next two years to make room for Tatum and/or Mitchell
 

clonetrooper264

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id be curious as to what 2 guys he would remove from the list then…because I don’t see anyone coming off of it in the next two years to make room for Tatum and/or Mitchell
Well he can speak for himself obviously, but my guess would be Lillard and Kawhi (depending on how he returns from injury). His list fluctuates season to season also so there's some shuffling between players that happens sometimes
 

Scoot26

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I agree PER is overrated. It’s just one of the few stats that certain people on here will recognize

I disagree with you on harden. I dont view him as a superstar and never have

Tatum and Mitchell are in that 2nd tier of guys IMO

besides, if you include harden and soon to be Tatum and Mitchell and you’re going over your 10 player threshold lol

and totally agree on Booker. Lavine is better than Booker
Fair on Harden, since I compiled a list 7 years ago, he's gone off and on my list a few times, but he meets all my criteria for being a superstar. Even if I don't really like him as a player, and think in many ways he's a team killer.

Sans this season, he was All-NBA 1st the prior 7 years. Won an MVP in 2018. He took the Rockets to the WCF in 2015. His PER has been really good.

I do this on a season-by-season basis, so if a player misses a lot of time to injury or even the whole season, they can fall for a season. Rarely does someone new get added though. Though this season did see two additions to the list in Doncic and Jokic. Anthony Davis (And there are questions if he ever belonged in the first place) and Russell Westbrook dropped off.

Tatum and Mitchell have to elevate their game if they are to make the list, and as Clone said, someone has to drop off for them to get added at this point. LeBron is the next likely candidate to drop off the list given his age, but likely still has a few seasons in him. Lillard is going to be 32 and could start to decline. Kawhi will drop for a year given his injury recovery, but Tatum and Mitchell have to make a leap for them to get added, and it's probably not going to happen.

It's a very subjective list obviously, but just something I came up with over time and meshed out over the years as a little hobby of mine off to the side. I really started it after some thread with a discussion here about what makes a superstar. Someone else said there are really no more than 10 superstars at one time, and my research has pretty much confirmed that, though it's getting interesting in the NBA right now as I am maxed out at 10, something I haven't found since 1994-95.
 

knoxville7

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Well he can speak for himself obviously, but my guess would be Lillard and Kawhi (depending on how he returns from injury). His list fluctuates season to season also so there's some shuffling between players that happens sometimes

I wasn’t even including Lillard in the list, so make that 3 guys to replace then

Giannis
Luka
Steph curry
Lebron(although fading)
Jokic
Embiid
Kawhi
Durant

with trae young and Zion knocking on that door

thats the guys I listed, the. Scoot mentioned Lillard being in as well, and harden a fringe guy

so that’s like 11-12 guys right there plus Tatum and Mitchell being on deck makes 13-14 guys. So 3-4 guys gotta go in the next year or two to keep it at 10
 

RoseMVP1

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Don't see it. Booker is incredibly inefficient in an era where so many are efficient. He didn't even hit 20.0 PER this season. His two all-star appearances are as a replacement player. Has not made All-NBA anything.

He's young, so he has a chance to get better and peak. But if this is his peak, he's nothing but a 3rd tier star.
I will say in fairness to Booker, he was robbed last year. He should have made it over Ingram. Suns won more at that point and Booker had better numbers.

Booker’s 3 point shooting holds him back and is one of the reasons I think Lavine is better. Booker just Isn’t a good 3 point shooter.
 

clonetrooper264

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I will say in fairness to Booker, he was robbed last year. He should have made it over Ingram. Suns won more at that point and Booker had better numbers.

Booker’s 3 point shooting holds him back and is one of the reasons I think Lavine is better. Booker just Isn’t a good 3 point shooter.
Booker's shooting is so strange to me. In my mind he's a shooter. He's been in the 3pt contest and he has shot 38% from 3 before, but now hovers in the 34% range. He was hot from 3 in the 1st round this year, but fell off a cliff afterwards. I guess he's just really streaky from 3 by the numbers.

Dude's still a bucket either way, but he really seems like he should be a better shooter than he is
 

FozzyBear

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Hornets might be making a push for Lonzo? Melo changed his number to 1, freeing up 2. Charlotte also signed Gelo for their summer league squad.
 

knoxville7

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Pelicans just freed up some cap space getting rid of Bledsoe’s contract. Makes it easier for them to match Lonzos offer sheet or to go big after another PG
 

FozzyBear

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Pelicans really about to throw the bag at Lowry. Good for us but dumb as fuck for them.

Lowry is not Paul, but I guess some people think that may be the case???? If I wanted a 35 yr old vet PG, Id go after Goran Dragic on a 1+1 or something if the Heat decline his option

Griffin made up a little with that trade with Memphis I guess, but he also put them in that position to begin with. Van Gundy too.. I dont get how Griffin even got that job. Other than signing Lebron, who wanted to come back, has GM Griffin ever made a good move?

Id part ways with Josh Hart and run with Alexander-Walker and draft Murphy III for a SG/SF/PF Role. At #35 C/PF Filip Petrusev from Belgium. #43 Draft and Stash G/F Vrenz Bleijenbergh. At #51 C Neemias Queta Utah. #53 Draft and Stash F/C Amar Sylla. IDK how to rank these international guys.Seen late rd 1 to late 2nd rd projections on the same guy

Get rid of SF's Iwundu and Louzada

Match Lonzo Ball
Sign SG Alex Caruso
Sign PF Jeff Green
Sign SF Tevor Ariza

Next year is another growth year regardless of who they sign. Id rather keep the young guys together, sprinkled in with a few vets and more youngins.

PG Ball 23 - Goran 35 - Lewis Jr 20
SG Caruso 27 - Alexander-Walker 22 - Murphy III 21
SF Ingram 23 - Ariza 36 - Marshall 23
PF Zion 21 - Jeff Green 35 - Petrusev 21
C Jonas 29 - Hayes 21 - Queta 21

But what do I know
 
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FozzyBear

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Yeah its boring Knoxville.

Boring for the Pelicans to keep Lonzo, but not boring if the Bulls got him right.

Well Goran is boring. And Im probably undervaluing what hell get on the market. pelicans have a 25.1 mil trade exception and could trade for him instead if they really wanted. He'd be okay leading a second unit while sprinkling in youngins like Walker/Murphy, Pet.

At the same time, they wouldnt have to go after Goran specifically. Caruso/Walker can flex and Zion brought the Ball up more last year. IDk if Willie Green will keep developing that. He should imo. Lewis showed a few flashes too.

Other than matching Ball, Caruso would be my main target in FA. 3 and D. Id give him more shots than he got in LA. Better shooter than Hart. Hes basically just the 4th/5th option though

Petrusev is worth a look. Stashing Vrenz Bleijenbergh would be a blessing at 43. Seen both of those guys projected late first tomid 2nd. Petrusev was okay at Gonzaga and developed a jumpshot last year in Belgium. Vrenz is a freak of nature and I could see someone easily getting thirsty and taking him in the 1st
 
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SilenceS

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They want Lowry which means they wouldnt be able to match Lonzo.

They want to win now and Im guessing the vet presence is what they desperately want. The Pelicans blew a lot of big leads last year and couldnt close games. They didnt have anyone leading them. Zion is getting there but still young. They are looking for what CP3 did for the Suns
 

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I wanted a vet PG for the Bulls to hopefully take this team to another level; somebody like Conley Jr or Lowry. I see what Chris Paul did for the Suns and I was hoping to get that in Chicago on a smaller scale.

However, Lonzo intrigues me for the Bulls. I think he could be the facilitator this team needs at PG. Plus he's plenty young so he can grow with Lavine and Williams.
 

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