Should Braxton Jones be the starting left tackle next year?

[dennehy]

Skoronski.

He blocks everything. He’s shut down every big pass rusher he’s faced. He’s fantastic at run blocking as well.

The knocks on him are absurd. ‘But He’s got short arms!’ Joe Thomas, rashawn slater, joe Staley, and Taylor Lewan have/had short arms. That didn’t affect any of them playing left tackle. That sounds like fans/pundits looking for a reason not to like someone because it’s not a sexy pick.

‘He’s not finishing violently, he just seals his guy off!’ He finishes his blocks. Does a pancake on a play where one isn’t needed because the play was successful matter? It does not.

Thomas and Lewan 33 3/4, Staley 34 1/4. Think 34 is right about the average for NFL OT, and usually under 33 or 32 3/4 is considered short.

When you get under 32 1/2, there just aren't many guys playing OT in the NFL. I remember Cody Whitehair was a great LT in college, but just didn't have the length.

Anyway, from the little I've seen Skoronski is a really good player. I'm planning on watching the UI-NW game on Saturday and looking forward to seeing more of him.

 

[remydat]

Haven't looked into Skoronski much but let's keep in mind that Jones is currently right up there with the 1st round tackles in terms of grade. So I imagine the same stuff that will be said about how great Skoronski is were said about Neal, Cross, Ekwonu, Penning and Smith. Hell Borom has a better pass block grade than all of them. Not saying don't draft him but just saying don't be surprised if he performance if you do isn't all that much different than Jones performance this year.

 

[modo]

no skoronski should be

 

[Chicagosports89]

Haven't looked into Skoronski much but let's keep in mind that Jones is currently right up there with the 1st round tackles in terms of grade. So I imagine the same stuff that will be said about how great Skoronski is were said about Neal, Cross, Ekwonu, Penning and Smith. Hell Borom has a better pass block grade than all of them. Not saying don't draft him but just saying don't be surprised if he performance if you do isn't all that much different than Jones performance this year.

Jfc Remy, we get it

 

[Canth]

There is no reason to hand anyone on this offensive line anything for 2023. Jones could certainly continue to hold down the starting LT position into next year, but there is zero reason to make that a given right now. And if they see a chance to upgrade a key position like LT, you take it and figure out how else to use Jones in the meantime.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

Skoronski.

He blocks everything. He’s shut down every big pass rusher he’s faced. He’s fantastic at run blocking as well.

The knocks on him are absurd. ‘But He’s got short arms!’ Joe Thomas, rashawn slater, joe Staley, and Taylor Lewan have/had short arms. That didn’t affect any of them playing left tackle. That sounds like fans/pundits looking for a reason not to like someone because it’s not a sexy pick.

‘He’s not finishing violently, he just seals his guy off!’ He finishes his blocks. Does a pancake on a play where one isn’t needed because the play was successful matter? It does not.

Then let them call the guy T-Rex, have the Bears trade down for 2 firsts, and grab him with one of them.

 

[vinson555]

Jones has had bad games, but most of those bad games are against high tier pass rushers. If he can improve his strength, he has a shot to be a valued starter. Many of the sacks and pressures I have seen have been from the right side of the Line. If Borum and Jenkins start again next season, you are hoping Borum gets better.

I'm okay with Jones starting again next season, That said someone who is a clear upgrade over him, you sign him, you will have the money.

 

[SugarWalls]

Haven't looked into Skoronski much but let's keep in mind that Jones is currently right up there with the 1st round tackles in terms of grade. So I imagine the same stuff that will be said about how great Skoronski is were said about Neal, Cross, Ekwonu, Penning and Smith. Hell Borom has a better pass block grade than all of them. Not saying don't draft him but just saying don't be surprised if he performance if you do isn't all that much different than Jones performance this year.

Jones has been awful in pass pro. As much as people are expecting him to improve, shouldn’t the same be said of all the rookie LT’s? If every rookie improves then the 1st rounders would be above average in pass pro, meanwhile jones is looking to improve to just average at pass pro. The run game is crucial but we have seen the bears struggle in pass pro, and this is where we need to see improvement across the board.

Gotta think the first round guys have higher ceilings in most cases, which is why they were frayed there (though sure some may be expected to have higher floors).

Pass pro is critical for your LT. Think how much a guy like Trent Williams would help this line, not needing a chip and allowing an extra guy to go for a route.

If a guy with a high ceiling like that is there round 1 it would be hard to pass imo. Bears finally have a chance to build through the offense, idk if they should pass it up.

 

[The Hawk]

There is no reason to hand anyone on this offensive line anything for 2023. Jones could certainly continue to hold down the starting LT position into next year, but there is zero reason to make that a given right now. And if they see a chance to upgrade a key position like LT, you take it and figure out how else to use Jones in the meantime.

That is true. They do need upgrade help at OT and C as a minimum. Probably also at RG unless Borum can be slotted there after a new RT slips into the starting line-up.

 

[remydat]

Jfc Remy, we get it

No yall clearly don't.

 

[dennehy]

That is true. They do need upgrade help at OT and C as a minimum. Probably also at RG unless Borum can be slotted there after a new RT slips into the starting line-up.

Teven Jenkins is the right guard and he's been the best OL this year easily, dumb ass.

 

[Chicagosports89]

No yall clearly don't.

Not agreeing doesn't mean you have to repeat something 70 times.

 

[remydat]

Jones has been awful in pass pro. As much as people are expecting him to improve, shouldn’t the same be said of all the rookie LT’s? If every rookie improves then the 1st rounders would be above average in pass pro, meanwhile jones is looking to improve to just average at pass pro. The run game is crucial but we have seen the bears struggle in pass pro, and this is where we need to see improvement across the board.

Gotta think the first round guys have higher ceilings in most cases, which is why they were frayed there (though sure some may be expected to have higher floors).

Pass pro is critical for your LT. Think how much a guy like Trent Williams would help this line, not needing a chip and allowing an extra guy to go for a route.

If a guy with a high ceiling like that is there round 1 it would be hard to pass imo. Bears finally have a chance to build through the offense, idk if they should pass it up.

Think the issue though is the other rookie LTs actually aren't that much better in pass pro.

Lucas - 74.9
Borom - 74.3
Cross - 70.8
Ekwonu - 69.9
Jones - 66.5
Smith - 64.7
Faalele - 57.8
Raimann - 56.8
Neal - 53.1
Mitchell - 50
Petit-Frere - 48.2
Penning, Rhyan, Burford, Volson, Tom, Kinard, Waletzko - No snaps at T

So these are the pass block grades for Jones and all the tackles taken before him. He is currently 4th and within 4 points of Cross and Ekwonu. There is really nothing in the above to suggest any of these guys are vastly superior to Jones. Also included Borom since he is 3 days older than Jones and Borom actually would ranked 2nd in pass blocking albeit playing RT not LT.

So again, I think people don't really appreciate that there isn't much separation here. You guys just don't watch this other guys every single play to see when they are fucking up. Fields also holds the ball longer than any other QB in the NFL so a lot of the pressures come from that fact. You look at Lucas and Cross for example who play with the Geno. Geno TTT is 2.78 and TTA (attempt a pass) is 2.57. Fields is 3.44 and 2.89. So it is obvious that if a guy is holding the ball 0.66 and 0.32 seconds longer then that is more time for the D to generate pressure. Hence why Jones can still have the 4th best pass blocking grade for a rookie while given up more pressures overall ie a lot of those pressures are because Fields has held the ball too long.

Not agreeing doesn't mean you have to repeat something 70 times.

See above. The claim is being made that Jones is terrible in pass pro but he actually isn't. So once again ya'll don't understand. Ya'll clearly are not accounting for the fact that many of the pressures this OL gives up is because Fields holds the ball longer than anyone. Hence why he actually has the 4th best pass block grade of all rookies which is not really terrible.

So if you understand the argument, what is your counterpoint and what data are you using to make that counterpoint. If you only argument is you disagree because you say so then that isn't really understanding. That is just being stubborn. Like how many of these other guys have you watched All 22 on to actually compare to Jones?

 

[SugarWalls]

Think the issue though is the other rookie LTs actually aren't that much better in pass pro.

Lucas - 74.9
Borom - 74.3
Cross - 70.8
Ekwonu - 69.9
Jones - 66.5
Smith - 64.7
Faalele - 57.8
Raimann - 56.8
Neal - 53.1
Mitchell - 50
Petit-Frere - 48.2
Penning, Rhyan, Burford, Volson, Tom, Kinard, Waletzko - No snaps at T

So these are the pass block grades for Jones and all the tackles taken before him. He is currently 4th and within 4 points of Cross and Ekwonu. There is really nothing in the above to suggest any of these guys are vastly superior to Jones. Also included Borom since he is 3 days older than Jones and Borom actually would ranked 2nd in pass blocking albeit playing RT not LT.

So again, I think people don't really appreciate that there isn't much separation here. You guys just don't watch this other guys every single play to see when they are fucking up. Fields also holds the ball longer than any other QB in the NFL so a lot of the pressures come from that fact. You look at Lucas and Cross for example who play with the Geno. Geno TTT is 2.78 and TTA (attempt a pass) is 2.57. Fields is 3.44 and 2.89. So it is obvious that if a guy is holding the ball 0.66 and 0.32 seconds longer then that is more time for the D to generate pressure. Hence why Jones can still have the 4th best pass blocking grade for a rookie while given up more pressures overall ie a lot of those pressures are because Fields has held the ball too long.



See above. The claim is being made that Jones is terrible in pass pro but he actually isn't. So once again ya'll don't understand. Ya'll clearly are not accounting for the fact that many of the pressures this OL gives up is because Fields holds the ball longer than anyone. Hence why he actually has the 4th best pass block grade of all rookies which is not really terrible.

So if you understand the argument, what is your counterpoint and what data are you using to make that counterpoint. If you only argument is you disagree because you say so then that isn't really understanding. That is just being stubborn. Like how many of these other guys have you watched All 22 on to actually compare to Jones?

Good points on fields holding the ball longer for sure plays a role.

I’d argue jones stats are far more misleading though, as the bears have drastically altered their passing style. Most pass plays have become roll outs or moving the pocket almost turning the block to a running block, which should net jones a W considering he excels there.

The eyes tell me he’s not good in drop back. Put him on a team like Carolina and I think he’d fare far worse.

Hard to compare his situation to others. The bears also haven’t really been tested with edge rushers. Packers a weak, Vikings are weak, lions have Hutchinson, falcons weak, giants weak at edge.

I’d be curious to find a film breakdown of the other rookies in traditional pass pro. If we see semian this week we should get some good tape on jones. Jones is going to need to make huge strides this off season, and is by no means the weakest link.

 

[dennehy]

Good points on fields holding the ball longer for sure plays a role.

I’d argue jones stats are far more misleading though, as the bears have drastically altered their passing style. Most pass plays have become roll outs or moving the pocket almost turning the block to a running block, which should net jones a W considering he excels there.

The eyes tell me he’s not good in drop back. Put him on a team like Carolina and I think he’d fare far worse.

Hard to compare his situation to others. The bears also haven’t really been tested with edge rushers. Packers a weak, Vikings are weak, lions have Hutchinson, falcons weak, giants weak at edge.

I’d be curious to find a film breakdown of the other rookies in traditional pass pro. If we see semian this week we should get some good tape on jones. Jones is going to need to make huge strides this off season, and is by no means the weakest link.

He's faced the top 4 guys in sacks in the NFL, Judon, ZaDarius Smith, Parsons, and Nick Bosa.

I think all those guys ate his lunch except maybe Parsons, but he has gone up against some good EDGE players this year.

 

[Myk]

It's not even week 12 and you want to predict Bears' depth chart for 2023???

Since you want to make that call now about a rookie. Absolutely not. He's playing like a rookie who was taken in the late rounds and has been in 11 games. Showing potential to be a steal in the 5th doesn't matter because you're instant gratification mentality wants to make the call now.

 

[remydat]

Good points on fields holding the ball longer for sure plays a role.

I’d argue jones stats are far more misleading though, as the bears have drastically altered their passing style. Most pass plays have become roll outs or moving the pocket almost turning the block to a running block, which should net jones a W considering he excels there.

The eyes tell me he’s not good in drop back. Put him on a team like Carolina and I think he’d fare far worse.

Hard to compare his situation to others. The bears also haven’t really been tested with edge rushers. Packers a weak, Vikings are weak, lions have Hutchinson, falcons weak, giants weak at edge.

I’d be curious to find a film breakdown of the other rookies in traditional pass pro. If we see semian this week we should get some good tape on jones. Jones is going to need to make huge strides this off season, and is by no means the weakest link.

Yes the moving pockets likely help him but how much relative to guys with QBs who get rid of the ball is hard to say. Baker for Carolina for example gets rid of the ball in 2.72 seconds compared to 3.44 for Fields. So what is more important here. The moving pocket or the fact Baker gets rid of the ball 0.7 seconds sooner than Fields on average?

I agree the situations are hard to compare but that is precisely why saying he sucks in pass pro is misleading. Until Fields time to throw can get down to something more normal for a QB, it is hard to say how much of those pressures are on Fields and how many are on Jones.

I would also say it is hard to compare because you need to know how good the other OL are for each of these guys. Part of the problem with the Bears is that Ts like to push DEs past the QB and so long as the QB can step up then it isn't an issue. So how many of Jones pressures or sacks are because the IOL is getting pushed back and so Fields can't step up when Jones is pushing the DEs past him. You get that interior fixed and the Ts will give up fewer sacks and pressures because Fields will be able to step up.

 

[remydat]

He's faced the top 4 guys in sacks in the NFL, Judon, ZaDarius Smith, Parsons, and Nick Bosa.

I think all those guys ate his lunch except maybe Parsons, but he has gone up against some good EDGE players this year.

Yep he gave up 4 sacks in his first 4 games and since then just 1 sack in his last 7.

 

[Canth]

In my opinion, where the pff grades don't seem to line up with what I think I am seeing on the field is just how bad the bad sets are. I get that the line has held up many times, Fields takes too long to throw, and there are plenty of examples of all that. That also ignores that when the Bears line does give up a pressure or sack it is often seems immediate and gives the play no chance for success - and here I am thinking of the entire line, not just Jones.

I am not going to pretend that I watch all the other games to know if it is similar or not. But my anecdotal take is that the problem with the Bears line are that they completely whiff or block the wrong guy and leave a free runner who would otherwise normally be blocked too much. That statement isn't specific to Jones by any means. I think Mustipher and Schofield are the two worst at that.

 

[TheWinman]

Was curious on the mood of the board on Braxton Jones and his rookie year performance as a fifth round pick.

A rookie who is slowly developing. Too soon to tell is the answer