Should the Chicago Bulls Pursue Rudy Gobert or Mitchell Robinson?

[RagingBull]

Should the Chicago Bulls Pursue Rudy Gobert or Mitchell Robinson?

 

[Enasic]

Robinson

 

[knoxville7]

Like most things, it comes down to cost

 

[clonetrooper264]

Robinson preferably...not a DPOY level defender, but comes at 25% the cost. Better value imo.

Lavine + Gobert as your core for the next 4-5 years doesn't sound like a contender to me, I can't see them doing any better than Mitchell and Gobert did in Utah. The team might look better because we have better perimeter defenders, but that's still a 2nd round exit core.

 

[SilenceS]

I saw Gobert and the Nets matching up. Thats interesting.

 

[clonetrooper264]

I saw Gobert and the Nets matching up. Thats interesting.

That'd be kinda hilarious if they dumped Kyrie to Utah to make that deal work.

 

[Axl Rose]

Signs are pointing to Robinson being our guy. However you have to contend with Knicks stupidity of massively overpaying.

I wouldn't mind Rudy if he was making 50% of what he is making and his contract was 2 years shorter.

 

[knoxville7]

Robinson preferably...not a DPOY level defender, but comes at 25% the cost. Better value imo.

Lavine + Gobert as your core for the next 4-5 years doesn't sound like a contender to me, I can't see them doing any better than Mitchell and Gobert did in Utah. The team might look better because we have better perimeter defenders, but that's still a 2nd round exit core.

If it was just Lavine + Gobert, I’d agree. It’s the same as Mitchell and Gobert.

Difference is DeRozan and hopefully a healthy Lonzo. Those two guys are better than the next best guys on Utah IMO

 

[clonetrooper264]

If it was just Lavine + Gobert, I’d agree. It’s the same as Mitchell and Gobert.

Difference is DeRozan and hopefully a healthy Lonzo. Those two guys are better than the next best guys on Utah IMO

That is true, but probably only true for maybe at most 2 seasons as DeRozan will surely decline over the next couple years. For that core to contend I think there would still need to be big upgrades in the shooting department and at the very least Zach would need to step up his defensive game as well. It's a lot of things that would need to happen in a very short period of time and it might literally be impossible with the salary restrictions. You have to hope to pick up a guy like Gary Payton II (not him specifically, just someone in a similar situation) who can be signed for the minimum but can be an impactful rotation player, and probably multiples at that. Not to mention backup big is still a hole that needs to be filled in this scenario.

 

[knoxville7]

That is true, but probably only true for maybe at most 2 seasons as DeRozan will surely decline over the next couple years. For that core to contend I think there would still need to be big upgrades in the shooting department and at the very least Zach would need to step up his defensive game as well. It's a lot of things that would need to happen in a very short period of time and it might literally be impossible with the salary restrictions. You have to hope to pick up a guy like Gary Payton II (not him specifically, just someone in a similar situation) who can be signed for the minimum but can be an impactful rotation player, and probably multiples at that. Not to mention backup big is still a hole that needs to be filled in this scenario.

Oh, it’s definitely a trade with the next 2 seasons in mind…I agree there

Back up bigs are typically easy to find in a draft. A guy that will play defense and rebound with some size

 

[Enasic]

That is true, but probably only true for maybe at most 2 seasons as DeRozan will surely decline over the next couple years. For that core to contend I think there would still need to be big upgrades in the shooting department and at the very least Zach would need to step up his defensive game as well. It's a lot of things that would need to happen in a very short period of time and it might literally be impossible with the salary restrictions. You have to hope to pick up a guy like Gary Payton II (not him specifically, just someone in a similar situation) who can be signed for the minimum but can be an impactful rotation player, and probably multiples at that. Not to mention backup big is still a hole that needs to be filled in this scenario.

Vuc has to have a bounce back year and LaVine (assuming he’s back) will need a career year for the Bulls to have any relevancy.

There is no way DeMar will have as good a year next season. The amount of game winners and complete dominance in the 4th quarters probably contributed to at least 6 wins or more. Bulls would have likely missed the playoffs if Demar didn’t go god mode for most of the season. Definitely can’t rely on that happening again or DeMar having a career year again at 33.

Vuc will need to wear his big boy pants and LaVine has to take another step as well. In addition, pat needs to take a major leap. This isn’t even mentioning lonzo’s health which is a must if the bulls want to contend in the east. I don’t foresee the Bulls adding a superstar/game changer in the off-season. Likely filling some holes (front court depth/shooters) and hoping to stay healthy and more cohesiveness in year 2.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Oh, it’s definitely a trade with the next 2 seasons in mind…I agree there

Back up bigs are typically easy to find in a draft. A guy that will play defense and rebound with some size

One potential hiccup there is that the 18th pick may be a piece that the Bulls have to trade to the Jazz to get Gobert (after the draft is done of course) so while that is true and there are a decent amount of bigs available in this draft from what I have seen, it might be a moot point there.

That said, you can always sign a vet min guy like Javale McGee or similar to fill that void. There are serviceable options out there somewhere, just expect them to be that vet min type.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Vuc has to have a bounce back year and LaVine (assuming he’s back) will need a career year for the Bulls to have any relevancy.

There is no way DeMar will have as good a year next season. The amount of game winners and complete dominance in the 4th quarters probably contributed to at least 6 wins or more. Bulls would have likely missed the playoffs if Demar didn’t go god mode for most of the season. Definitely can’t rely on that happening again or DeMar having a career year again at 33.

Vuc will need to wear his big boy pants and LaVine has to take another step as well. In addition, pat needs to take a major leap. This isn’t even mentioning lonzo’s health which is a must if the bulls want to contend in the east. I don’t foresee the Bulls adding a superstar/game changer in the off-season. Likely filling some holes (front court depth/shooters) and hoping to stay healthy and more cohesiveness in year 2.

Pretty much.

There is something to be said about cohesion and having guys play together for a bit that I think people underrate. It will not solve all the problems by any means, but who knows, maybe something like that will help someone like Vuc bounce back. I fully expect no major moves unless Zach leaves for some reason. If he did, I see no other option than to fully rebuild.

AKME wasn't entirely dumb when they formed this group, there is a bit of a limited window of opportunity here in terms of being a true contender, but establishing a new culture and identity as a franchise who will make moves to win games is something that will hopefully lead to bigger offseason splashes in the future. The current core isn't entirely a waste of cap either as Vuc and DeMar will likely be gone in a couple years or sooner.

 

[Enasic]

Pretty much.

There is something to be said about cohesion and having guys play together for a bit that I think people underrate. It will not solve all the problems by any means, but who knows, maybe something like that will help someone like Vuc bounce back. I fully expect no major moves unless Zach leaves for some reason. If he did, I see no other option than to fully rebuild.

AKME wasn't entirely dumb when they formed this group, there is a bit of a limited window of opportunity here in terms of being a true contender, but establishing a new culture and identity as a franchise who will make moves to win games is something that will hopefully lead to bigger offseason splashes in the future. The current core isn't entirely a waste of cap either as Vuc and DeMar will likely be gone in a couple years or sooner.

I’m probably one that doesn’t put much stock in the cohesion factor. Like you alluded to, it will not fix the Bulls issues. If you look at the 2010 Bulls….they had a new first time HC and an entirely different roster and they finished #1 in the NBA winning over 60 games.

Why? Talent, coaching, and intangibles. Besides lacking a true star like Rose, I don’t think Billy really cuts it and this team doesn’t have the intangibles/grit/IQ/toughness that it takes to be great. When I heard AK talk about another year together as a reason the team will be better next year, I kind of cringed. Although, like you said, maybe Vuc will have a bounce back year that I suppose can be contributed to cohesion.

 

[clonetrooper264]

I’m probably one that doesn’t put much stock in the cohesion factor. Like you alluded to, it will not fix the Bulls issues. If you look at the 2010 Bulls….they had a new first time HC and an entirely different roster and they finished #1 in the NBA winning over 60 games.

Why? Talent, coaching, and intangibles. Besides lacking a true star like Rose, I don’t think Billy really cuts it and this team doesn’t have the intangibles/grit/IQ/toughness that it takes to be great. When I heard AK talk about another year together as a reason the team will be better next year, I kind of cringed. Although, like you said, maybe Vuc will have a bounce back year that I suppose can be contributed to cohesion.

There's definitely more to it than just playing together for a few years. Of course coaching matters a lot, as we didn't see the Warriors take off until Kerr took over and that group had been together for some years as well. Of course talent matters because if you assemble talent like KG/Pierce/Allen in Boston or Lebron/Wade/Bosh then who cares about cohesion from a previous season? And of course intangibles matter because we saw how the Dwight Howard/Steve Nash Lakers turned out.

This team is lacking in a lot of things to be a title contender, but if we're honest with ourselves we knew that from the start. To me, it beats being a bottom dweller and picking #7 in the draft year after year though. Technically you could say we're in no man's land, but I'll take a 2-3 year window of being a dark horse to make a bit of playoff noise after 5 years of suck.

 

[Enasic]

There's definitely more to it than just playing together for a few years. Of course coaching matters a lot, as we didn't see the Warriors take off until Kerr took over and that group had been together for some years as well. Of course talent matters because if you assemble talent like KG/Pierce/Allen in Boston or Lebron/Wade/Bosh then who cares about cohesion from a previous season? And of course intangibles matter because we saw how the Dwight Howard/Steve Nash Lakers turned out.

This team is lacking in a lot of things to be a title contender, but if we're honest with ourselves we knew that from the start. To me, it beats being a bottom dweller and picking #7 in the draft year after year though. Technically you could say we're in no man's land, but I'll take a 2-3 year window of being a dark horse to make a bit of playoff noise after 5 years of suck.

Yeah I agree. The lottery is such a crapshoot in the draft too. A lot of years there’s not even a legit franchise caliber player that will turn your team around. I’d rather a competitive team that has a chance to make noise as well. Bulls weren’t competitive after the all-star break, so hopefully they turn that around next season. It’s one thing to play sub .500 basketball, it’s another to be utterly embarrassing game after game. You can still lose and be competitive…the Bulls were losing in the most uncompetitive and uninspiring way possible.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Yeah I agree. The lottery is such a crapshoot in the draft too. A lot of years there’s not even a legit franchise caliber player that will turn your team around. I’d rather a competitive team that has a chance to make noise as well. Bulls weren’t competitive after the all-star break, so hopefully they turn that around next season. It’s one thing to play sub .500 basketball, it’s another to be utterly embarrassing game after game. You can still lose and be competitive…the Bulls were losing in the most uncompetitive and uninspiring way possible.

Who knows, perhaps cohesion will help stop some of that too. Health of course is a huge factor there as well, perhaps more so than anything besides personnel. In some ways it'd be better to win 41 games and be consistent than to win 46 and be wildly inconsistent, at least for our own sanity.

 

[Enasic]

Who knows, perhaps cohesion will help stop some of that too. Health of course is a huge factor there as well, perhaps more so than anything besides personnel. In some ways it'd be better to win 41 games and be consistent than to win 46 and be wildly inconsistent, at least for our own sanity.

I guess that’s the hope…I just don’t see it though. Cohesion isn’t going to help with effort, tenacity, competitiveness and IQ. Bulls folded routinely and genuinely looked like they didn’t care or had any pride whatsoever. Literally was some of the most embarrassing and uninspiring basketball I’ve seen in a long time. They legit looked like a JV team.

That’s really more of a mental makeup thing than a cohesion thing, IMO…their 3 best players aren’t defenders and were never known for being hard nosed players. That’s tough to overcome when you’re depending on role players to lead you defensively

 

[clonetrooper264]

I guess that’s the hope…I just don’t see it though. Cohesion isn’t going to help with effort, tenacity, competitiveness and IQ. Bulls folded routinely and genuinely looked like they didn’t care or had any pride whatsoever. Literally was some of the most embarrassing and uninspiring basketball I’ve seen in a long time. They legit looked like a JV team.

That’s really more of a mental makeup thing than a cohesion thing, IMO…their 3 best players aren’t defenders and were never known for being hard nosed players. That’s tough to overcome when you’re depending on role players to lead you defensively

You can only do so much with the personnel you're given. To circle back to Gobert, would the team perform better with him? Probably, but the end result will likely still be the same. Perhaps it's still preferable as maybe they're a bit more competitive defensively, but this team does not have the two way ability of a team like Boston or Miami obviously. And is Rudy Gobert really anything but a really really good role player?

On the flip side, you could say that if fully healthy the Bulls could've looked more competitive as they were missing a huge dynamic with Lonzo out for the 2nd half of the year and Caruso out a large chunk as well. Of course PWill being out changed their entire rotation. You could blame Lonzo being out just as easily as Vucevic not being a great defender for why the Bulls defense looked terrible. You could blame a lack of shooting on the roster for why the Bulls struggled to score at times just as easily as you could say it was a coaching issue. There's just so many things with this team that you can point at as an issue.

 

[Enasic]

You can only do so much with the personnel you're given. To circle back to Gobert, would the team perform better with him? Probably, but the end result will likely still be the same. Perhaps it's still preferable as maybe they're a bit more competitive defensively, but this team does not have the two way ability of a team like Boston or Miami obviously. And is Rudy Gobert really anything but a really really good role player?

On the flip side, you could say that if fully healthy the Bulls could've looked more competitive as they were missing a huge dynamic with Lonzo out for the 2nd half of the year and Caruso out a large chunk as well. Of course PWill being out changed their entire rotation. You could blame Lonzo being out just as easily as Vucevic not being a great defender for why the Bulls defense looked terrible. You could blame a lack of shooting on the roster for why the Bulls struggled to score at times just as easily as you could say it was a coaching issue. There's just so many things with this team that you can point at as an issue.

Has there been any updates on lonzo? I wonder if his knee is still dead