Should the Redskins change their name

[ijustposthere]

Does it solve all the problems that plague the various communities? No. But I think that is the wrong question. The question is whether there is any value in keeping potentially offensive names or brands around? The answer for me is no.

I think you are conflating two issues. This is a small measure and it is not required that one tackle the bigger and more complicated issues before one can address something as simple as not using racial slurs in team names and not continuing to use the wrong term to identify people.

Whether those big issues get solved or not, the point is we can solve these two issues quite easily so why not?

I'm just tired of half measures. It feels to me that we'll be having this same conversation in ten years.

 

[remydat]

I'm just tired of half measures. It feels to me that we'll be having this same conversation in ten years.

You are most likely right.

 

[anotheridiot]

I saw the post yesterday from the Onion 2 years ago, remember, the part of the name that was offensive was Washington, not Redskins.

 

[modo]

I saw the post yesterday from the Onion 2 years ago, remember, the part of the name that was offensive was Washington, not Redskins.

Satire has become real life.....

 

[Black Rainbow]

Seems the Redskins are changing the name and logo. Obviously, if the name change doesn't give a nod to Native American culture there's no point in the logo.

I saw this clip in the news feed about the end game for teams and Native references. (Blackhawks)

"Carla Fredericks, the director of the American Indian Law Clinic and director of First Peoples Worldwide, said she did not want to see the team pivot to a name such as the Warriors. She said it would be considered a tie-in to Native Americans.

Asked about the Golden State Warriors and whether their nickname was OK or somehow different because of the lack of Native American logos, Fredericks said: "We're just taking a very hard line on all of this, that anything that relates to Native American people or is evocative of Native American people has no place in professional sports. The hard line is important because of the lack of understanding about Native American people in our communities, so the clarity would go a long way toward better behavior by sports teams and fans."

Washington NFL team retiring nickname, logo

The Redskins announced Monday that they are retiring their name and logo, and owner Dan Snyder and coach Ron Rivera are working on a new name and logo design that will "inspire our sponsors, fans and community for the next 100 years."

www.espn.com

 

[airtime143]

I am glad it finally happened because I am sick to death of the arguments over it.

Full disclosure- I have quite a bit of native american in my lineage..my grandmother was full blooded cherokee and born on a reservation.... and I dont have an issue with the name, never really have.

However, I grew up in arizona and there were a lot of Navajo kids from reservations, and I heard "redskin" used as a derogatory term all the time. I can see where eliminating it would be a good thing.
Just because I wasnt offended by that doesnt mean nobody is.

...besides, we are having this conversation on a message board that focuses on the bears, not the staleys.
Name changes can be good.

 

[nc0gnet0]

What's in a name? 'Mixed,' 'biracial,' 'black' | CNN

African-American, black or negro? Professor Martha Jones writes that the language of race has always been a moving target.

www.cnn.com

 

[didshereallysaythat]

I guess this bears repeating. Polls like this are useless because they are based on people who self identify as Native American. So Elizabeth Warren could take part in this poll. By contrast here are the actual tribes and Native organizations that are on record as opposing the name.



But an anonymous person in an internet survey claimed they were 1/36th Native and said they are proud of the name.

I will note again that the Tribes are supposed to have some measure of sovereignty. So are we going to start disregarding what the leaders of every nation say in favor of internet polls or just when it comes to Native American leaders? The organizations and Native American tribes chosen to represent their people have spoken. It is time for America to finally show some measure of respect for their voices. If these internet pollsters are proud of the name then let them get elected to positions of power in the above Tribes and Organizations and they can push their agenda.

Should there be one governing voice for each tribe to make that decision, or should it be majority vote? When you lived in the US, would you like people to assume that your voice was the same as Donald Trumps?

Now, if you want to say there is evidence that the majority of Native American's feel this way, that is fine. I just have not seen it.

Again though, I created this thread and I am fine with the name being changed. It is borderline racist. But the reality is, that should not be for white or black people to decide. It should come from the Native American's as a whole.

 

[airtime143]

Should there be one governing voice for each tribe to make that decision, or should it be majority vote? When you lived in the US, would you like people to assume that your voice was the same as Donald Trumps?

Now, if you want to say there is evidence that the majority of Native American's feel this way, that is fine. I just have not seen it.

Again though, I created this thread and I am fine with the name being changed. It is borderline racist. But the reality is, that should not be for white or black people to decide. It should come from the Native American's as a whole.

There are scores of tribes throughout the U.S., all of them with declining numbers, many of them dealing with financial problems, health care concerns, and infrastructure issues on reservations.

Team names are likely not a huge issue for them in the grand scheme of things.
Priority one for many tribes right now is making sure their people and culture do not become extinct.

I bet many tribes would LOVE if they were in such good condition that the only injustice they had left to fight was their disappearing culture being used as mascots.
But that ranks pretty damn low on the priority list, and quite honestly we should do that for them.

 

[nc0gnet0]

Should there be one governing voice for each tribe to make that decision, or should it be majority vote? When you lived in the US, would you like people to assume that your voice was the same as Donald Trumps?

Now, if you want to say there is evidence that the majority of Native American's feel this way, that is fine. I just have not seen it.

Again though, I created this thread and I am fine with the name being changed. It is borderline racist. But the reality is, that should not be for white or black people to decide. It should come from the Native American's as a whole.

But your saying in order for the name to be considered offensive, it has to be offensive to the majority of Native Americans. I am not so sure that is the right litmus test to apply here.

I think you could allow for native Americans themselves to decide a name that honors their tradition, and in ten-15 years that name too could become a name that is deemed offensive. That is what I refereed to as the euphemism treadmill.

So if you want to go with a future proof name, much easier to go with something inanimate, like Pistons or Redwings, or mythical, like Griffins or Werewolves. In this day and age I am not sure how long even names such as Lions or Bears is safe.

 

[nc0gnet0]

I mean let's face it, we are living in a day and age where almost everyone wants to have simple solutions to complex problems. Let's single out one or two things, demand change and point blame, then wash rinse repeat. Hell, even Dr. Zeus, by today's standards, is considered racist. The problem is, in the long run, this approach accomplishes nothing.

Can you imagine the look of a white civil war veteran that laid his life on the line fighting against the confederacy in order to free the slaves, being called a racist because of a word he used to referred to them as?

Or the WW2 vet that came home a paraplegic helping to end Hitlers oppression of the Jewish population being called racist because he referred to them as Jews?

Are we to rewrite the history books every time a particular word falls out of favor, or can we finally use some semblance of common sense in the matter?

 

[Penny Traitor]

Hell, even Dr. Zeus, by today's standards, is considered racist.

lolwut?!?

Can you imagine the look of a white civil war veteran that laid his life on the line fighting against the confederacy in order to free the slaves, being called a racist because of a word he used to referred to them as?

lolwut?!?

Or the WW2 vet that came home a paraplegic helping to end Hitlers oppression of the Jewish population being called racist because he referred to them as Jews?

lolwut?!?

Are we to rewrite the history books every time a particular word falls out of favor, or can we finally use some semblance of common sense in the matter?

I don't know about all that, but can we rewrite your post to use some semblance of common sense?

 

[nc0gnet0]

lolwut?!?


lolwut?!?


lolwut?!?


I don't know about all that, but can we rewrite your post to use some semblance of common sense?

Or do enough research yourself to warrant you responding to my comments. That might be a better place to start.

Dr. Seuss books are ‘racist,’ new study says. Should kids still read them? - National | Globalnews.ca

Of the 2,200 iconic characters analyzed by the study, only 45 were characters of colour.

globalnews.ca

Dr. Seuss Books Can Be Racist, But Students Keep Reading Them

A recent study found that Dr. Seuss books can be pretty racist. It's highlighted a growing debate: Should schools teach classic books that may be problematic or trade them for socially conscious ones?

www.npr.org

Ted Geisel (Dr Seuss) Racist Controversy — The Art of Dr. Seuss Collection, Published by Chaseart Companies

Many experts have weighed in on the controversial work of Dr. Seuss that some interpret to be racist.

www.drseussart.com

Untitled Document

www.dartmouth.edu

 

[Jack Lantern]

I mean let's face it, we are living in a day and age where almost everyone wants to have simple solutions to complex problems. Let's single out one or two things, demand change and point blame, then wash rinse repeat. Hell, even Dr. Zeus, by today's standards, is considered racist. The problem is, in the long run, this approach accomplishes nothing.

Can you imagine the look of a white civil war veteran that laid his life on the line fighting against the confederacy in order to free the slaves, being called a racist because of a word he used to referred to them as?

Or the WW2 vet that came home a paraplegic helping to end Hitlers oppression of the Jewish population being called racist because he referred to them as Jews?

Are we to rewrite the history books every time a particular word falls out of favor, or can we finally use some semblance of common sense in the matter?

It's the age of social media. The masses gravitate towards <insert random popular topic here> to have a say. It is what it is.

Adapt or go home.

People have lost careers and lives ruined over it. Hell it even had a HUGE say in getting the President of the United States elected, lol

 

[Midway Fields]

They are changing their name to Washington Darkies.

New LOGO.

Wow, hilarious.

 

[TecmoSuperbOwl]

They are changing their name to Washington Darkies.

New LOGO.

What's it like being this fucking stupid? Like does it hurt? I won't say 'kill yourself' again because apparently posts like this are acceptable, but implying a racist edgelord take his own life is not. Therefore I will change gears and ask that you go fuck yourself.

 

[remydat]

Should there be one governing voice for each tribe to make that decision, or should it be majority vote? When you lived in the US, would you like people to assume that your voice was the same as Donald Trumps?

Now, if you want to say there is evidence that the majority of Native American's feel this way, that is fine. I just have not seen it.

Again though, I created this thread and I am fine with the name being changed. It is borderline racist. But the reality is, that should not be for white or black people to decide. It should come from the Native American's as a whole.

Think you missed the point. Some tribes have some measure of sovereignty so when their leaders speak they speak for the whole tribe.

Just like when Trump executes his executive power it doesnt matter what people say on an internet poll. The solution if one is upset with how a leader of a sovereign nation uses the power granted to them by the electorate is to vote the leader out so these internet pollsters solution is to vote for leaders of their respective tribes that share their views.

Of course the problem with that is I suspect a lot of these internet pollsters are marginally Native if that hence my comment about Elizabeth Warren.

Are you really saying we should take what Warren says over what a sovereign Indian nation says because unless you can prove these polls are from actual Native Americans who actually care about and keep their traditions they are worthless.

You or I could claim we are Native American and we would be allowed to take part in these polls. You understand that right?

But I tell you what, when you start advocating that Trump's or any President's orders should be made void until a poll says the majority agree with them then I will support your position. Otherwise you are essentially discriminating against sovereign Native American tribes by creating a majority test that most would never advocate for any other nation.

Imagine telling the Nation of Israel that you dont care if their leaders say K*ke is offensive because some poll of alleged Jewish people claimed they were not offended.

 

[remydat]

There are scores of tribes throughout the U.S., all of them with declining numbers, many of them dealing with financial problems, health care concerns, and infrastructure issues on reservations.

Team names are likely not a huge issue for them in the grand scheme of things.
Priority one for many tribes right now is making sure their people and culture do not become extinct.

I bet many tribes would LOVE if they were in such good condition that the only injustice they had left to fight was their disappearing culture being used as mascots.
But that ranks pretty damn low on the priority list, and quite honestly we should do that for them.

Yeah but the thing is despite all the other issues they face those tribes have spoken and most are officially against the name. I posted the list earlier. They can advocate both simulataneously which is why I find this kind of argument silly as if we all don't hold multiple opinions on various subjects. Not speaking about you as you said we should do that for them but in general the argument that comes from some people that we should be worried about bigger issues. Yes we should but I can worry about those bigger issues while also noting the name is racist and should change. It is not either/or where I can only advocate one position at a time.

 

[remydat]

What's it like being this fucking stupid? Like does it hurt? I won't say 'kill yourself' again because apparently posts like this are acceptable, but implying a racist edgelord take his own life is not. Therefore I will change gears and ask that you go fuck yourself.

I believe Number51 is not being racist but using sarcasm and satire to illustrate how racist the name is. Like it is obvious the above is racist but somehow some people think Redskin and dressing up in redface is not. Numbers is generally fairly liberal so think you are misreading his intent.

 

[TecmoSuperbOwl]

I believe Number51 is not being racist but using sarcasm and satire to illustrate how racist the name is. Like it is obvious the above is racist but somehow some people think Redskin and dressing up in redface is not. Numbers is generally fairly liberal so think you are misreading his intent.

Well, I believe everything is on the table when it comes to humor, but if you can't land the joke you have to deal with the consequences. That post doesn't read as satirical at all. Either dude is a racist, or a very unfunny person who just posted some racist dumb edgelord joke. So I stand by my assertion that he may go fuck himself.