The 2010 Cup Sexual Assault Thread

Granada

Well-known member
10,339
1,624
75
Good point.....when someone decides to be a John or Jane Doe,they have every right to their anonymity.
Yeah and I'm probably wrong -- I don't know if I'd even have the same guess now, because more has come out since then (that it's two players now, that the guy was convicted, etc.). Back then, I just thought of the one guy whose "career was ruined" and who might have an axe to grind with the org, but it's probably a couple black aces like you said.
 

HSBOB

Well-known member
2,121
2,227
70
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
Yeah and I'm probably wrong -- I don't know if I'd even have the same guess now, because more has come out since then (that it's two players now, that the guy was convicted, etc.). Back then, I just thought of the one guy whose "career was ruined" and who might have an axe to grind with the org, but it's probably a couple black aces like you said.
I'm just spitballin' too G but I'd bet it wasn't high profile players targeted by this predator.....they look for the young and vulnerable who are afraid to damage whatever standing they have with the team or to rock the proverbial boat in the middle of a deep PO run .
 

Gustavus Adolphus

Roquaids
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '20
35,267
26,241
135
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago White Sox
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Montreal Canadiens
  1. Nebraska Cornhuskers
  2. Villanova Wildcats
If what Carcillo says is true - that players on other teams had heard whispers - what did the players on the 2010 Hawks know, and don't they share some blame as well?

What I'm saying is, if John Doe went to Toews, Keith, Hossa, or Sharp with this information aren't they as bad as Bowman, et.al? I'm guessing if any of those four said that this guy had to go, he'd be gone. If not more.
 

Granada

Well-known member
10,339
1,624
75
If what Carcillo says is true - that players on other teams had heard whispers - what did the players on the 2010 Hawks know, and don't they share some blame as well?

What I'm saying is, if John Doe went to Toews, Keith, Hossa, or Sharp with this information aren't they as bad as Bowman, et.al? I'm guessing if any of those four said that this guy had to go, he'd be gone. If not more.

Ultimately, it falls on management. There are many wacky rumors in my organization as well; some have supposedly been mentioned to HR, some for a fact have been reported to HR, some are just rumors. That really isn't the issue -- we know someone (the skills coach) reported it to upper management. If the players knew (which is speculation at this point; they may have heard through the grapevine, as is common in any org) and also knew that no one reported it, then they'd perhaps be more culpable. But it was reported to management all the same; at that point, you trust your management to look into it, confirm it, and do the right thing.
 
Last edited:

LordKOTL

Scratched for Vorobiev
7,943
2,418
70
My favorite teams
  1. Portland Timbers
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
If what Carcillo says is true - that players on other teams had heard whispers - what did the players on the 2010 Hawks know, and don't they share some blame as well?

What I'm saying is, if John Doe went to Toews, Keith, Hossa, or Sharp with this information aren't they as bad as Bowman, et.al? I'm guessing if any of those four said that this guy had to go, he'd be gone. If not more.
In short they may have some culpability if they knew and failed to do much of anything, but the psychology of the situation is incredibly complex.

One aspect that affects this is the idea of, "Person of Power." The easiest way to see that is in the "stereotypical" old scenario where a boss threatens a secretary's livelihood if the doesn't give him favors, or she tells anyone. Ditto with a teacher, coach, or anyone that is put in a position of power.

Something us laypeople don't understand (and I'm paraphrasing a lot of this from my wife, who actually works in the field of forensic psychology and is where I gleaned this information) is that in those situation, even those that you'd think could "Handle it" don't. Hence the internet tough guy attitude of, "if he ever did that to me..." when they fail to realize in the likely scenario of the alleged victim, they have every ounce of their livelihood threatened by someone who not only threatens, but assures the victim that no one will believe them. We like to think we're tough, but if you've spent some 18 years of your life training to do nothing but hockey and being needled by everyone around you that you respect to always listen and obey your coaches, and one fuckwit threatened everything you've worked for in exchange for sexual favors, people don't behave rationally or how they would think they would out of the moment.

This also extends to adults--or rather people over the age of majority--for those thinking, "but they were legally adults!" In the same vein as the boss/secretary example, the same rules apply--we would hold the onus on the secretary in that scenario because of the position of power held over here--and the same applies here.

The other aspect is that this scenario also applies to a lot of the players. Hell, Kane and Toews were what, 22? 23? at the time. Also, maybe they did talk to someone who was complicit in keeping the whole thing under wraps or possibly threatened themselves if they did anything. We all know almost every major sports league is an old-boys club and the NHL is no different, neither are the teams. It's not hard to think that if a player spoke up and continued to make waves (especially since the 'hawks were riding high at the time) would risk being blackballed--or outright threatened. History has plenty of examples where the bystander effect came into play where your average person did nothing while atrocities were happening around them--lest they become the target.

As you and a few other said, the letter of recommendation on this is the most damning part--and shows the 'hawks treated this like the catholic sex abuse scandals--and that shouldn't go away. People--fans or otherwise, need to start asking tough questions and start to make the brass sweat. But in the same vein, let the law actually work--innocent until proven guilty.
 

HSBOB

Well-known member
2,121
2,227
70
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
If what Carcillo says is true - that players on other teams had heard whispers - what did the players on the 2010 Hawks know, and don't they share some blame as well?

What I'm saying is, if John Doe went to Toews, Keith, Hossa, or Sharp with this information aren't they as bad as Bowman, et.al? I'm guessing if any of those four said that this guy had to go, he'd be gone. If not more.
Maybe the victim didn't want to talk to all those guys about the terribly embarrassing things that happened and there are chains of protocol victims have to follow which he seems to have done. He went to an assistant coach who immediately called a meeting of the team's top execs and it was those execs who decided to not get the law involved.

Could the players ignore this edict from the team president? Could they risk the distraction of going to the media or some type of player action in the middle of a cup run?

The guy was "gone" and maybe due to player demands. Hell,we've seen some pretty tough players put up with physical abuse at the hands of coaches without saying anything because those coaches control their career paths......they'd rather be kicked in the back by some old fucker they could slap the piss out of before being sent down.

This predator saw a perfect storm of available young,guys with little to no leverage as far as importance to a team focused only on trying to win it's first cup in 49 years and took full advantage of the situation as predators often do.
 

Grimson

🏆 CCS HoF: Class of 2015 🏆
Donator
33,981
16,450
135
The lawyer representing the Hawks player was on 670 The Score at 5:00pm today and dropped more hints.

1) Was a high draft pick.
2) Played in Europe after.
3) Is currently playing in Europe.

I have 2 guesses now.
 

Granada

Well-known member
10,339
1,624
75
Maybe the victim didn't want to talk to all those guys about the terribly embarrassing things that happened and there are chains of protocol victims have to follow which he seems to have done. He went to an assistant coach who immediately called a meeting of the team's top execs and it was those execs who decided to not get the law involved.

Could the players ignore this edict from the team president? Could they risk the distraction of going to the media or some type of player action in the middle of a cup run?

The guy was "gone" and maybe due to player demands. Hell,we've seen some pretty tough players put up with physical abuse at the hands of coaches without saying anything because those coaches control their career paths......they'd rather be kicked in the back by some old fucker they could slap the piss out of before being sent down.

This predator saw a perfect storm of available young,guys with little to no leverage as far as importance to a team focused only on trying to win it's first cup in 49 years and took full advantage of the situation as predators often do.

Right. I think we're (in the royal sense) getting into over-reaction here if we're suggesting the entire team and every player needs to be as culpable as management here. For one thing, if you didn't hear it from the horse's mouth himself, there is little you can do as a player. Second, even if you did, management already knew about it.

I was once involved in a HR dispute at work. Basically, someone complained about my boss at the time, so HR interviewed the complainer's co-workers, which I was one. Now, I knew the complainer's gripes -- he told me, and others, over and over again -- but I personally had never actually been "in the room" and seen first-hand these gripes occur; nor had I seen them occur with anyone else. So I had to be honest and said just that: I knew about the accusations, but never saw them occur. Nothing happened to my boss; the complainer ended up finding another job soon after. My point is: even if the players did know about it, they would literally be in the same situation I was in.
 

HSBOB

Well-known member
2,121
2,227
70
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
Right. I think we're (in the royal sense) getting into over-reaction here if we're suggesting the entire team and every player needs to be as culpable as management here. For one thing, if you didn't hear it from the horse's mouth himself, there is little you can do as a player. Second, even if you did, management already knew about it.

I was once involved in a HR dispute at work. Basically, someone complained about my boss at the time, so HR interviewed the complainer's co-workers, which I was one. Now, I knew the complainer's gripes -- he told me, and others, over and over again -- but I personally had never actually been "in the room" and seen first-hand these gripes occur; nor had I seen them occur with anyone else. So I had to be honest and said just that: I knew about the accusations, but never saw them occur. Nothing happened to my boss; the complainer ended up finding another job soon after. My point is: even if the players did know about it, they would literally be in the same situation I was in.
That's why hear-say will never be allowed in a court of law. The victim correctly reported it to an assistant coach he had confidence in(and rightly so apparently) because Vincent immediately took it to the team's top management and the players either had faith that top management would do the right thing(which they didn't) or had little choice but to abide by management's decision.........they also had their hands full trying to end half a century of hockey misery in Chicago.

I also wonder who brought this predator in with prior allegations,who protected him while he was here and most of all.....who wrote the referral letter.

 
Last edited:

Granada

Well-known member
10,339
1,624
75
That's why hear-say will never be allowed in a court of law. The victim correctly reported it to an assistant coach he had confidence in(and rightly so apparently) because Vincent immediately took it to the team's top management and the players either had faith that top management would do the right thing(which they didn't) or had little choice but to abide by management's decision.........they also had their hands full trying to end half a century of hockey misery in Chicago.

I also wonder who brought this predator in with prior allegations,who protected him while he was here and most of all.....who wrote the referral letter.


Yeah, the recommendation letter and the fact they swept it under the rug are the biggest sins here. Both should require serious repercussions.
 

DaHawkz24

Active member
150
101
27
The lawyer representing the Hawks player was on 670 The Score at 5:00pm today and dropped more hints.

1) Was a high draft pick.
2) Played in Europe after.
3) Is currently playing in Europe.

I have 2 guesses now.

My guess is Jack Skille. He had a few pretty good seasons in Rockford until 2010, but never had much of an impact in the NHL.

He played with the Blackhawks until the 2011 trade deadline, and is still playing in Europe.

If his lawyer is going to give that much info I don't feel bad throwing out that guess. I don't blame the player for any of this.

I really hope that the letter of recomendation acusation is not true. I feel like that is the worst part about this.
 

greg23

Well-known member
4,798
2,775
70
My guess is Jack Skille. He had a few pretty good seasons in Rockford until 2010, but never had much of an impact in the NHL.

He played with the Blackhawks until the 2011 trade deadline, and is still playing in Europe.

If his lawyer is going to give that much info I don't feel bad throwing out that guess. I don't blame the player for any of this.

I really hope that the letter of recomendation acusation is not true. I feel like that is the worst part about this.

This was my guess from the get go
 

MassHavoc

Moderator
Staff member
16,575
1,873
85
I'm curious if this has any connection to McD leaving/ being replaced abruptly. Maybe he knew this was coming and bolted, or the hawks knew it was coming and got him away because he knew something. That feels a little far fetched becuase bowman would seemingly know the same. I could see the Hawks trying to play the, we got rid of the problem card, already when the investigations are doing by them and the NHL. Hopefully they won't get away with that in any official court hearings.
 

Granada

Well-known member
10,339
1,624
75
My guess is Jack Skille. He had a few pretty good seasons in Rockford until 2010, but never had much of an impact in the NHL.

He played with the Blackhawks until the 2011 trade deadline, and is still playing in Europe.

If his lawyer is going to give that much info I don't feel bad throwing out that guess. I don't blame the player for any of this.

I really hope that the letter of recomendation acusation is not true. I feel like that is the worst part about this.

That's why I feel like the lawyer is misdirecting; or, the guy he's referring to plans to come out. By "misdirecting," I mean his definition of "high draft pick" is expansive -- meaning, perhaps in his definition, that would include 2nd or even early 3rd rounders.
 

MassHavoc

Moderator
Staff member
16,575
1,873
85
That's why I feel like the lawyer is misdirecting; or, the guy he's referring to plans to come out. By "misdirecting," I mean his definition of "high draft pick" is expansive -- meaning, perhaps in his definition, that would include 2nd or even early 3rd rounders.
Yeah, he could mean high round draft pick.
 

HSBOB

Well-known member
2,121
2,227
70
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
What does the first guy to successfully 'out' the sexual assault victim who's asked for anonymity win?
 

DaHawkz24

Active member
150
101
27
What does the first guy to successfully 'out' the sexual assault victim who's asked for anonymity win?
I'm not trying to 'out' anyone. Their own lawyer narrowed it down to only a couple of possible players.

Also, I don't think anyone has anything against whoever it is. The only villans in this case are Aldrich and the front office of the Blackhawks especially if they gave the guy recommendations to continue assulting and abusing people.
 

Gustavus Adolphus

Roquaids
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '20
35,267
26,241
135
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago White Sox
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Montreal Canadiens
  1. Nebraska Cornhuskers
  2. Villanova Wildcats
I'm curious if this has any connection to McD leaving/ being replaced abruptly. Maybe he knew this was coming and bolted, or the hawks knew it was coming and got him away because he knew something. That feels a little far fetched becuase bowman would seemingly know the same. I could see the Hawks trying to play the, we got rid of the problem card, already when the investigations are doing by them and the NHL. Hopefully they won't get away with that in any official court hearings.
Earlier in this thread I posted a tweet that speculated on who Joe Doe could have been. If you read through some of the replies on that tweet, the Twitter user also posts an article from The Athletic about said possible John Doe, and it was pointed out that McD left/resigned/was fired the same day the article ran.
 

MassHavoc

Moderator
Staff member
16,575
1,873
85
Earlier in this thread I posted a tweet that speculated on who Joe Doe could have been. If you read through some of the replies on that tweet, the Twitter user also posts an article from The Athletic about said possible John Doe, and it was pointed out that McD left/resigned/was fired the same day the article ran.
Ehhh. Maybe but that's really loose there. The article, which I admittedly cannot read the whole thing, is about Kim Johansson just vanishing from hockey I don't see anything in there that alludes to the sexual abuse allegations. Unless I'm just not seeing it because of the paywall.
 

Top