The big 3 vs. the 4A

JP Hochbaum

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The big 3 OPS:
Bryant: .861
Rizzo: .792
Baez: .775

Team OPS before deadline: .704

The 4A:
Wisdom: .853
Schwindel: 1.066
Ortega: .836

Team OPS after deadline: .657

We can see from the numbers above, albeit small sample sizes. that the Cubs have actually improved their offensive production, at two positions, by making room their AAAA players. I don't think this is sustainable and I don't think this means that our AAAA players can be here long term.

This is more to point out how bad our core was, outside of Bryant. If the core can be replaced with hot streaks from AAAA players then the core was a rotten core. They couldn't be paid multi years deals that would strangle us financially.
 

CSF77

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The big 3 OPS:
Bryant: .861
Rizzo: .792
Baez: .775

Team OPS before deadline: .704

The 4A:
Wisdom: .853
Schwindel: 1.066
Ortega: .836

Team OPS after deadline: .657

We can see from the numbers above, albeit small sample sizes. that the Cubs have actually improved their offensive production, at two positions, by making room their AAAA players. I don't think this is sustainable and I don't think this means that our AAAA players can be here long term.

This is more to point out how bad our core was, outside of Bryant. If the core can be replaced with hot streaks from AAAA players then the core was a rotten core. They couldn't be paid multi years deals that would strangle us financially.

I'm not sure if this is a hot streak at all. Not to mention the 3 listed are not going to get paid squat.

I personally believe 2022 will be a broken by nature year. What I mean is Tom is going to keep payroll down to 120-130M. With the rest he will pay off debt owed to the infrastructure.

So the 3 listed make perfect sense for 2022.

Of the 3. Davis should be up mid to late season. He most likely takes over Heyward and they cut Jason.

Happ I'm pretty sure Jed will trade. This year has shown that he has huge holes in his game and is not a solid investment.

SS C and 2B are set.

CF Ortega is doing fine. Crow-Armstrong should be up in a few years. Ortega at worst becomes a 4th OF and at best what he is now.

Schwindel is far better than expected. I expected up a few days and tossed. Wisdom won with power. Schwindel is a far better hitter.

Now I can see all 3 hanging around in 2022. What happens after that is on them. I wouldn't place limiters on them. Let them show us what their limits are. It happens over time. And to be honest right now it is a time game.
 

Chicagosports89

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I'm not sure if this is a hot streak at all. Not to mention the 3 listed are not going to get paid squat.

I personally believe 2022 will be a broken by nature year. What I mean is Tom is going to keep payroll down to 120-130M. With the rest he will pay off debt owed to the infrastructure.

So the 3 listed make perfect sense for 2022.

Of the 3. Davis should be up mid to late season. He most likely takes over Heyward and they cut Jason.

Happ I'm pretty sure Jed will trade. This year has shown that he has huge holes in his game and is not a solid investment.

SS C and 2B are set.

CF Ortega is doing fine. Crow-Armstrong should be up in a few years. Ortega at worst becomes a 4th OF and at best what he is now.

Schwindel is far better than expected. I expected up a few days and tossed. Wisdom won with power. Schwindel is a far better hitter.

Now I can see all 3 hanging around in 2022. What happens after that is on them. I wouldn't place limiters on them. Let them show us what their limits are. It happens over time. And to be honest right now it is a time game.
Ortega at worst is not a major league player. You keep saying they will trade happ but that implies someone will trade something for him. I doubt that cubs eat the last two years of Heywards contract.
 

knoxville7

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Yeah him and Heyward aren't getting traded, not sure why CSF thinks this is possible.

and in reality, that’s okay. If the cubs go out and sign an OF that can really hit, then that guy with Happ in center and heyward in RF isn’t the end of the world.

especially if Happ bounces back to being a .240 hitter with power and a high OBP. And if heyward gets back to hitting .265-.270 range again with some OBP

but yeah, to think Happ/heyward will be moved this offseason is peculiar to say the least
 

CSF77

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Ortega at worst is not a major league player. You keep saying they will trade happ but that implies someone will trade something for him. I doubt that cubs eat the last two years of Heywards contract.

I do on both.

Happ is still young and under control. He still has assets that teams will take. KC took a broken Bernentelli (SP W/C). So flipping a bat with holes for a pen arm. It happens.

Heyward being replaced by contract no. Heyward being replaced by a league min yes.

We are talking about 600k. Not a investment.

So eating that deal? Depends on a few factors but that would be one. It is not about the money. It would be about starting Davis.

Ortega. Yes that is a out come but at this point the league would have shut him down if he had holes going on. That said .306/.365/.483 is not outside of normality. Wisdom's start was. He came to earth. Ortega has been slow and steady production outside of his 3 dinger day. That was a abjuration. I feel the same with Sampson. Slow and steady vs big day no day.

The guy that worries me the most is Wisdom. But if they build a line up full of hitters > sluggers and have a all or nothing to give a bit of Dave Kingman to the line up it is fine. The core source would be creating runs vs sitting on the HR. Then the HR becomes the frosting vs the cake.
 

Chicagosports89

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I do on both.

Happ is still young and under control. He still has assets that teams will take. KC took a broken Bernentelli (SP W/C). So flipping a bat with holes for a pen arm. It happens.

Heyward being replaced by contract no. Heyward being replaced by a league min yes.

We are talking about 600k. Not a investment.

So eating that deal? Depends on a few factors but that would be one. It is not about the money. It would be about starting Davis.

Ortega. Yes that is a out come but at this point the league would have shut him down if he had holes going on. That said .306/.365/.483 is not outside of normality. Wisdom's start was. He came to earth. Ortega has been slow and steady production outside of his 3 dinger day. That was a abjuration. I feel the same with Sampson. Slow and steady vs big day no day.
Hasn't Sampson pitched like 2 games?

Bernentelli? Can we try to get close to the name
 

CSF77

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Hasn't Sampson pitched like 2 games?

Bernentelli? Can we try to get close to the name

Sorry on break on route. Don't have the time. Add to it I really don't care about a scrub like that. The point is teams sign/trade for scrubs that have control.

But was Schwindel. Not sure why I thought Sampson.
 

Chicagosports89

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Sorry on break on route. Don't have the time. Add to it I really don't care about a scrub like that. The point is teams sign/trade for scrubs that have control.

But was Schwindel. Not sure why I thought Sampson.
To be fair Andrew benintendi had been really good for 3 straight years and was only shit for like 60 PA. Happ has been mostly shit
 

CSF77

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Add to it.

If Ortega was around the last few years vs this whole lead off CF crap fest sense Fowler a chunk of the Cub issues would have been resolved.

To date he has done what Almora was supposed to do. Not suck.
 
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CSF77

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I think the main point is talent comes from everywhere. Being a high draft pick just guarantees a large signing bonus. About it

If Jed wants to roll out one hit wonders for a few years and flip high. I will back it.
 

CSF77

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and in reality, that’s okay. If the cubs go out and sign an OF that can really hit, then that guy with Happ in center and heyward in RF isn’t the end of the world.

especially if Happ bounces back to being a .240 hitter with power and a high OBP. And if heyward gets back to hitting .265-.270 range again with some OBP

but yeah, to think Happ/heyward will be moved this offseason is peculiar to say the least

I am fine with Jason in RF and Ortega in CF. Davis should be up after 300 PA in Iowa. IMO.

I just see adding Davis and releasing Heyward as the right choice then. Just by the fact that Hermosillo is getting a cut in PT having Jason there will cut into PA's and it is not justified. 1 2 month stretch in a contract doesn't justify shit. And too little too late to hold down PA's. As far as taking a back seat on pine? Short answer is ego. For Hermosillo yes. Sitting for a back up. Ego. Davis? Top 15 and black? I can see him helping a brother out

Sorry it is really.

As far as Happ in CF. Really? I think we know enough on him. LF with holes in his swing. He goes up there golfing and if the pitcher is stupid he will tee one up. If he is smart he goes up and up and away.
 

CSF77

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Ortega reminds me of LaStella a bit. Joe never gave him a fair shake as a every day player so for the most part ignored for years. When he got traded the halos gave him a opertunity and he ran with it. The fact he got traded again after Joe came over just tells me it was a told you so situation and Joe didn't want that in his face every day.

Now Ortega has put up power this year. That has not been part of his game before. But he has never been a starter before either.

So I would just let him run with it. You really never know until after the fact. To me Tommy never gets a shot under Joe. David is not afraid of giving players a fair shake. So if he becomes a every day player after this. Cool. It happens.

The sad part is the Cubs had a lead off for years. Joe refused to let him be one. Sad really.
 

CSF77

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Aug:
Schwindel: 1.030 OPS
Ortega .875 OPS
Wisdom .828 OPS


Baez: .671 OPS
Rizzo: .620 OPS
Bryant .884 OPS

Bryant has done the job. Other two. Oh boy.

Just tells me that opportunity knocks and who wants it can run with it. And name value is hot air.

Yet again more weight towards adding to a pen and rotation vs removing players that have not been the problem.
 

CSF77

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Going deeper.

Cubs in Aug:

OPS:

Schwindel 1.030
Ortega .875
Happ .856
Wisdom .828
Chrinios .770
Heyward .682
Duffy .645
Hermosillo .593
Bote .548
Romine .517
Alcantara .506
Contreras .456
Romine .412

Ya know, What I am thinking right now. Trade Wilson's final year of control and make Chirinos the starting catcher. Toss the ego out the door. Get P.J. healthy and have him back up Chirnos. As far as a return? Best players. It really doesn't matter. Get Amaya in Iowa and MLB ready.

The OF I'm not sold on Hermisilo at this point. Had a strong day but he does that. Has a solid day then shuts down after. The OPS begs to differ. That said Heyward is a space waster. If Davis was ready on opening day I would DFA Jason over the winter.

1-4 in the line up is driven by OPS. The numbers are pushing David's hand on line up construction.

The issue has been SS and 2B. But, That is covered already. Yet again supporting my argument for holding the deck and investing into the pitching staff.


So until Davis, Crow-Armstrong and Amaya arrive I believe what we are seeing right now is not bad. A little bit underappreciated but by no means bad players. To be honest they might be very good players that never got respected.
 

Chicagosports89

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Going deeper.

Cubs in Aug:

OPS:

Schwindel 1.030
Ortega .875
Happ .856
Wisdom .828
Chrinios .770
Heyward .682
Duffy .645
Hermosillo .593
Bote .548
Romine .517
Alcantara .506
Contreras .456
Romine .412

Ya know, What I am thinking right now. Trade Wilson's final year of control and make Chirinos the starting catcher. Toss the ego out the door. Get P.J. healthy and have him back up Chirnos. As far as a return? Best players. It really doesn't matter. Get Amaya in Iowa and MLB ready.

The OF I'm not sold on Hermisilo at this point. Had a strong day but he does that. Has a solid day then shuts down after. The OPS begs to differ. That said Heyward is a space waster. If Davis was ready on opening day I would DFA Jason over the winter.

1-4 in the line up is driven by OPS. The numbers are pushing David's hand on line up construction.

The issue has been SS and 2B. But, That is covered already. Yet again supporting my argument for holding the deck and investing into the pitching staff.


So until Davis, Crow-Armstrong and Amaya arrive I believe what we are seeing right now is not bad. A little bit underappreciated but by no means bad players. To be honest they might be very good players that never got respected.
Heyward isn't getting released and Davis probably isn't on the roster opening day
 

CSF77

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Another thing that they could do is trade Hendricks. They have a cheaper version in Mills.

I could see Jed targeting Aaron Sanchez. He is on down value and has upside

2nd arm. I love Rodon but it might be above Jed's comfort zone.

Daniel Norris falls into the low payday upside

Jed would be banking on the pitching lab and age. See if there is a higher ceiling to these guys.

Giants got that out of Gausman who never met his potential.

It is hard to guage what Jed will do. But his tendency has been finding unpolished gems vs proven while rebuilding. When he has made a larger committed deal it back fired. EJax.

So I can see him flipping and trying to get lucky. It is more likely than dumping into a big name.
 

CSF77

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"I really respect the effort these guys have given," Hoyer said. "They had an amazing opportunity to come in and play every day for two months and, to their credit, a bunch of these guys have really grabbed that opportunity and run with it.
"Watching that passion every day -- they come to the ballpark to prove something. They're proving something to the Cubs. They're proving something to the league."
And they are giving Hoyer and his front-office team something to think about as they map out the offseason blueprint.
Working in the Cubs' favor is the fact that all three players are under club control at pre-arbitration costs. That will help Chicago prioritize other areas on the roster -- most notably, the rotation -- for spending on the open market.
"We plan to be really active in free agency," Hoyer said. "We plan to spend money intelligently -- I think that's probably the easiest way I can say it. Obviously, we're scouting that market heavily. We're going to analyze that market heavily."
The Cubs will also have to factor in the reality that Wisdom, Schwindel and Ortega are all in the 29-30-year-old age range. That, coupled with the smaller-sample nature of their seasons with the North Siders, makes projecting full-season production more complicated.
 

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