The Jeffery Deception

[94SupraTT]

So why aren't you breaking down films with Thayer or on the NFL network?

The last paragraph was written to show how ridiculous it is to try to dismiss someone else's viewpoint based off one's own experience. I guess that was missed.


I was being over the top on purpose...just to show how ridiculous it is.

 

[Menchifus]

The key takeaway point in that video was not the actual play that was run. It was the series of plays that lead up to that big play. It was the "behavioral conditioning of a defensive end" that was most impressive with what Marc Trestman is doing. Trestman is using Pavlovian psychology to dupe the defense by showing them something several times and then giving them a completely different thing later. That is some new age shit. Reminiscent of Phil Jackson perhaps?

No way in hell Mike Tice knew about shit like this when he was an OC. Or at least he wouldn't know how to implement it. I'm curious how widespread this concept is in the NFL.

 

[remydat]

Ok let's not get carried away. Just about every OC worth his salt tries to set up defenses. Nothing really new age about it. This is not some big secret. I am sure Tice probably tried it but he simply sucked ass at it. The genius doesn't come from merely trying to do it. It comes from actually being able to accomplish it.

 

[HeHateMe]

Ok let's not get carried away. Just about every OC worth his salt tries to set up defenses. Nothing really new age about it. This is not some big secret. I am sure Tice probably tried it but he simply sucked ass at it. The genius doesn't come from merely trying to do it. It comes from actually being able to accomplish it.

Bring in some stats mufuka.

 

[Bear Pride]

You are stuck on the on the field terminology and on the field reaction. What was posted was an experts analysis.

I expect an expert that is breaking down film to use the proper term.

Also, if we actually ran a REVERSE I would expect him to call it a REVERSE and break it down properly. I would hope he would not call it a double reverse. You are totally missing the point. No one said players on the field didn't call it that. This article wasn't about calls on the field by either side of the ball. It was about breaking down the play and calling a end around a reverse is wrong in film analysis. FILM ANALYSIS not CALLS ON THE FIELD. Get it?


You're not impressing anyone with knowledge of field calls. I played for six years and was the President of the youth football league in my town and set the rules for the 4 county league that we ran which consisted of 50+ teams in 4 divisions. You calling a end around is still wrong.

Sorry man, you're the one that doesn't get it. "What was posted was an experts analysis", you say, except that the expert was a FORMER PLAYER! President of the youth football league .... whoa man, I am impressed. I'm NOT calling an end around anything. I simply offered a reason why Thayer was. You then started to give me a 'youth football league' lesson.

As a matter of fact, why don't you email Tom, and explain to him the difference between an 'end around' and an 'end reverse'. Maybe ask him why he kept saying "reverse". I bet he really appreciates that from you!

 

[remydat]

Bring in some stats mufuka.

I don't think you understand the gravity of the situation. Trestman just has that electromagnetic energy which allows him to counter-attack an opponent's weak nuclear force with a strong nuclear force. It's just fundamental.

 

[HeHateMe]

I don't think you understand the gravity of the situation. Trestman just has that electromagnetic energy which allows him to counter-attack an opponent's weak nuclear force with a strong nuclear force. It's just fundamental.

I would props this post but phone dontdodat.

 

[94SupraTT]

Sorry man, you're the one that doesn't get it. "What was posted was an experts analysis", you say, except that the expert was a FORMER PLAYER! President of the youth football league .... whoa man, I am impressed. I'm NOT calling an end around anything. I simply offered a reason why Thayer was. You then started to give me a 'youth football league' lesson.

As a matter of fact, why don't you email Tom, and explain to him the difference between an 'end around' and an 'end reverse'. Maybe ask him why he kept saying "reverse". I bet he really appreciates that from you!

Him being an expert doesn't make him right. You don't seem to grasp that. I can't make you understand.

post via Tapatalk on Sprint GNex (Page Plus Cellular)

 

[HeHateMe]

Him being an expert doesn't make him right. You don't seem to grasp that. I can't make you understand.

post via Tapatalk on Sprint GNex (Page Plus Cellular)

Jeesh dood give up not worth it...

 

[Bones40]

I don't want to be a Debbie Downer here. I certainly don't want to be "that" guy that sounds condescending, but come on guys. Literally every coach I played for at every level, starting in the 4th grade (yes, tackle football) through college, does this. Shoop did this, Shea did this, Turner did this, Martz did this and Tice did this. Having multiple plays that all have the same action to start is elementary. Granted, those guys may not have been very good at it, but they did it.

Don't take this as a dig of Trestman or any of you, I was just surprised at the reaction by our fans to a fundamental aspect to play design/play calling.

 

[BearsFanFromMontreal]

I don't want to be a Debbie Downer here. I certainly don't want to be "that" guy that sounds condescending, but come on guys. Literally every coach I played for at every level, starting in the 4th grade (yes, tackle football) through college, does this. Shoop did this, Shea did this, Turner did this, Martz did this and Tice did this. Having multiple plays that all have the same action to start is elementary. Granted, those guys may not have been very good at it, but they did it.

Don't take this as a dig of Trestman or any of you, I was just surprised at the reaction by our fans to a fundamental aspect to play design/play calling.

I'm pretty sure 100% most coaches do that - some with more success than others though. It depends on the players execution and discipline too not only on the calling. When you see an offensive play going "too" easy - it could be the result of stuff like this.

I know that Trestman loves mind games he always did. Here in Montreal we have this brilliant TV analyst (he used to center the Oline for Calvillo about 10 years ago) and he would point during the game how often this thing happened - same formation and different outcomes depending on previous reactions. Sometimes in first and 10 there was a failed run attempt - but in fact, Pierre (the analyst) would explain how this was just to test the D's reactions against that specific formation. He would anticipate how later in the game there should be a similar formation with a successful long pass - and guess what ?

At some point I hated him for being that accurate in his predictions - what if the enemy was listening ? But he was extremely high on Trestman and his offensive stuff - said he has never seen that level of precision and intelligence in plays.

 

[Schmidtaki]

I don't want to be a Debbie Downer here. I certainly don't want to be "that" guy that sounds condescending, but come on guys. Literally every coach I played for at every level, starting in the 4th grade (yes, tackle football) through college, does this. Shoop did this, Shea did this, Turner did this, Martz did this and Tice did this. Having multiple plays that all have the same action to start is elementary. Granted, those guys may not have been very good at it, but they did it.

Don't take this as a dig of Trestman or any of you, I was just surprised at the reaction by our fans to a fundamental aspect to play design/play calling.

Trestman seems to be the only coach that knows how to do this properly where as all coaches before him stunk at things like this, that is why I would say myself and most fans have the reactions we do to things like this. You have to remember our offense has been in the stone age since the beginning of time.

 

[remydat]

Trestman seems to be the only coach that knows how to do this properly where as all coaches before him stunk at things like this, that is why I would say myself and most fans have the reactions we do to things like this. You have to remember our offense has been in the stone age since the beginning of time.

Martz's offense was clicking before Cutty went down and despite inconsistent line play so I don't think Trestman was the only Bears coach who could do it. If Martz's offense had the OL we have now, I suspect he would never have been run out of town for his penchant to abandon the run game.

 

[ijustposthere]

Am I the only one that is bothered by hearing "reverse"? Not once did I see a reverse. I saw multiple end arounds.

LOL, glad I'm not the only one. Even Thayer and Billick said reverse, although I've heard Billick refer to it as an end around before as well.

 

[ijustposthere]

Dude, I don't care about guns at all. We were talking football, right? Here's an article even stating your point. Notice all the people who call these plays reverses! Even Faulk called an end around a reverse! I bet Faulk knows the difference! All these people know the difference! However, they all refer to it as a reverse.

I tried to tell you why, but you insist on trying to teach me fundamental stuff. Everyone KNOWS it's an end around. BUT THEY STILL CALL IT A REVERSE! Tell me why? Are you suggesting that all these players and professional football analysts are stoopid and don't know the difference? This is a good example of the sillyness of some people on a sports MB. What a stoopid thing to debate, imo!



http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=tmq/021210

This shit is instilled in you from an early age. It's the same reason people who watch the game with me wonder why every fumble I yell "BALL"!

Perhaps they do it because fucking idiots are too stupid to know what the hell an end around is.

 

[Myk]

So maybe this Turner-like run on first down tendency is setting people up for later in the season.

"Oh look. The Bears are as predictable as they've always been."

I may have to get the games on my computer to check some things out (like if they are actually running on first as much as I think).

 

[emaugust]

I thought that too, but then kind of realized that DC's on other teams must see things like this all the time after the game when reviewing tape. I think during the game you make adjustments to stop a play but when you have an offensive mind like Trestman working against you any play can have some sort of adjustment just to see how the defense is going to play and the opposing DC can quickly become overwhelmed trying to figure out if the OC is testing them or just running a play.

I'm excited to see more of this type of play too come.

I think the bigger issue is that as a DC, even if you KNOW they are going to run that reverse play, from a defense perspective, the end (Jared Allen) needs to pick his poison - he can either contain the edge or play the run. Can't do both - so even if you telegraph the play, it is still a guessing game.

Pretty wild what a competent offensive coaching staff can do!