The polarizing Nick Madrigal

Bust

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back on the topic of Mandrigal...woah...

He also specializes in something the Cubs have noticeably struggled with in recent years: making contact. Madrigal has a 91.8 career contact rate.

“This kid brings something to the table that we're missing in the game,” former White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen said. “Move the guy over, hit behind the runners, doesn’t strike out much, a better hitter with two strikes.

“He does so many little things nobody thinks about. He’s got to stay healthy. He's had a couple big injuries. If you watch him once a week, you might go, ‘What?’

“But if you watch this kid every day, you will appreciate what he does for the team because he’s hard-nosed.”

"We know we have to watch Nick Madrigal for the next five-plus years in a Cub uniform, very likely making an impact and doing damage at the big-league level. That's not going to be easy," Sox GM Rick Hahn said after the trade.
 

dchawks59

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Soooo, the bottom line is no one other than "Sox" management feel he is going to be really good; no one knows since he has had little big league experience. Seems like that can be said for every player they have received in trades and most they have on the team now. Re-build is the word of the year for the Cubs; do they have a core, a foundation; well that is subject to question. Contreras yes, Hendricks yes, who else??? 1st base no one, 2nd base Hoerner- maybe, SS- no one, 3rd base, Wisdom??, LF Diechman (sp?) no one knows, CF no one (Happ has not proven he is or can be the guy), RF - Heyward? Decent field, terrible hitter plus huge salary (guess they pay him to be a leader in the clubhouse). Is that a "core or foundation to build on". SP- Alzolay?? Davies does not appear so, no one else today; RP, little there.

Hate to be negative but there is little to see on this team roster today or in AAA or even AA who would be considered a "core or foundational player". Reminds me of early Cubs teams of 73-77, is that what is coming? Better hope they use all the money they did not spend in 2022 to create a core.

On another note, has anyone wonderd out loud why the big 3 rejected an extension or new contract? Interesting as to why Hoyer said none of them wanted to sign, should be a major question for fans and maybe an indication of a bigger problem on this team.
 

dchawks59

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Today's game was a disaster for Cubs, anyone remember Eloy Jiminez? Cubs top prospect sent to WS for Quintana; Cease was Cubs top pitching prospect sent to WS for two guys who were out of baseball in 2019. Great trade for WS..... Interesting how WS comments back then were the same as they are today (just replace Quintana name with Madrigal).....meanwhile the WS got an incredible talent in Eloy and a pitcher who starts for them, both of whom will be there for years. Wonder why this team is in trouble, lousy trades .
 

Chicagosports89

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Soooo, the bottom line is no one other than "Sox" management feel he is going to be really good; no one knows since he has had little big league experience. Seems like that can be said for every player they have received in trades and most they have on the team now. Re-build is the word of the year for the Cubs; do they have a core, a foundation; well that is subject to question. Contreras yes, Hendricks yes, who else??? 1st base no one, 2nd base Hoerner- maybe, SS- no one, 3rd base, Wisdom??, LF Diechman (sp?) no one knows, CF no one (Happ has not proven he is or can be the guy), RF - Heyward? Decent field, terrible hitter plus huge salary (guess they pay him to be a leader in the clubhouse). Is that a "core or foundation to build on". SP- Alzolay?? Davies does not appear so, no one else today; RP, little there.

Hate to be negative but there is little to see on this team roster today or in AAA or even AA who would be considered a "core or foundational player". Reminds me of early Cubs teams of 73-77, is that what is coming? Better hope they use all the money they did not spend in 2022 to create a core.

On another note, has anyone wonderd out loud why the big 3 rejected an extension or new contract? Interesting as to why Hoyer said none of them wanted to sign, should be a major question for fans and maybe an indication of a bigger problem on this team.
I dont wonder why they didn't resign. If they'd been offered what they wanted they would have resigned. They want to be overpaid for past performance though so management made a smart decision
 

Chicagosports89

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Today's game was a disaster for Cubs, anyone remember Eloy Jiminez? Cubs top prospect sent to WS for Quintana; Cease was Cubs top pitching prospect sent to WS for two guys who were out of baseball in 2019. Great trade for WS..... Interesting how WS comments back then were the same as they are today (just replace Quintana name with Madrigal).....meanwhile the WS got an incredible talent in Eloy and a pitcher who starts for them, both of whom will be there for years. Wonder why this team is in trouble, lousy trades .
...you know cease was in the quintana trade right? Who do you think he was traded for?
 

playthrough2001

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My favorite teams
  1. Chicago White Sox
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
  1. Central Florida Knights
  2. TCU Horned Frogs
I’m a Sox fan and I think Madrigal is an excellent get for the Cubs if he can stay healthy.

My observations from watching him over the last two seasons:

He has excellent bat control and knows the strike zone incredibly well for a young player. He almost always makes contact and works pitchers. He’s been consistently effective getting hits with two strikes. He should be on base consistently but you’re going to need a run producer to get him in.

His teammates seem to love him so it never hurts to have an excellent clubhouse guy.

He’s a gym rat mentality guy. I believe baseball really is his focus. Guys like that improve especially when they have underlying talent.

Some negatives:

He’s actually been a bit shaky at 2nd base but it’s early in his career and he had a great reputation as a top defensive player at Oregon State.

His arm isn’t great but he plays 2nd base so it’s not that big an issue.

He has limited power. That could change as he matures.

He has had a major injury in each of his first two big league seasons that finished him for the year. That’s not ideal.

Good luck Cub fans. I hope Nick comes through for you guys.
 

Bust

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Hate to be negative but there is little to see on this team roster today or in AAA or even AA who would be considered a "core or foundational player". Reminds me of early Cubs teams of 73-77, is that what is coming? Better hope they use all the money they did not spend in 2022 to create a core.
What was the payroll of your 73-77 squad? couple thousand dollars?

Meaning.....None of this matters as a big market team the next core can be bought via 100+ million free agent dollars. If they can sign Carlos Correa and a stud starting pitcher this offseason they'll become contenders overnight.

If the Cubs choose they have the financial capabilities to go after all of Carlos Correa, Corey Seager, a starting pitcher and STILL have money to spend = winner winner chicken dinner!
 
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Bust

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On another note, has anyone wonderd out loud why the big 3 rejected an extension or new contract?

The big 3 woofed twice in first round exit one and done wildcard games. Did the offense even score a run in those 2 whiffs? They also missed key guys from their championship run with "he go we go" Dexter Fowler and a clean headed Zobrist before he found out his wife was fucking their family pastor. They also never replaced Addison Russell's offense. Addy drove in over 90 rbi the championship season and led the team in rbi for the full postseason run. Crazy he is playing in the Mexico league.

It was perfect timing for the big 3 to leave.

Look how active the Blackhawks and Bulls offseasons have been, their seasons can't start any sooner! Cubs will be in same boat!! Then we have Fields with the Bears?!? WOW! what a great time to be a chicago sports fan!
 
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Castor76

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Today's game was a disaster for Cubs, anyone remember Eloy Jiminez? Cubs top prospect sent to WS for Quintana; Cease was Cubs top pitching prospect sent to WS for two guys who were out of baseball in 2019. Great trade for WS..... Interesting how WS comments back then were the same as they are today (just replace Quintana name with Madrigal).....meanwhile the WS got an incredible talent in Eloy and a pitcher who starts for them, both of whom will be there for years. Wonder why this team is in trouble, lousy trades .
Eloy Jiminez? You mean the same Eloy Jiminez who only broke into the majors in 2019, which was 2 seasons after the Cubs traded him? The same Eloy Jiminez who would have been blocked by Kyle Schwarber in 2019, who hit 38 homers for the Cubs that year and had a 2.3 WAR? Yeah, 4 years later the White Sox got 2 players who will be there "for years." One of them is injured, plays a position that doesn't exist in the NL, and has only seen 9 games this year while the other is their #4 starter. Cubs only got and NLCS trip out of it. The only mistake on the Cubs' part, imo, is they didn't trade Quintana after the 2018 season.
 

TL1961

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Soooo, the bottom line is no one other than "Sox" management feel he is going to be really good; no one knows since he has had little big league experience. Seems like that can be said for every player they have received in trades and most they have on the team now. Re-build is the word of the year for the Cubs; do they have a core, a foundation; well that is subject to question. Contreras yes, Hendricks yes, who else??? 1st base no one, 2nd base Hoerner- maybe, SS- no one, 3rd base, Wisdom??, LF Diechman (sp?) no one knows, CF no one (Happ has not proven he is or can be the guy), RF - Heyward? Decent field, terrible hitter plus huge salary (guess they pay him to be a leader in the clubhouse). Is that a "core or foundation to build on". SP- Alzolay?? Davies does not appear so, no one else today; RP, little there.

Hate to be negative but there is little to see on this team roster today or in AAA or even AA who would be considered a "core or foundational player". Reminds me of early Cubs teams of 73-77, is that what is coming? Better hope they use all the money they did not spend in 2022 to create a core.

On another note, has anyone wonderd out loud why the big 3 rejected an extension or new contract? Interesting as to why Hoyer said none of them wanted to sign, should be a major question for fans and maybe an indication of a bigger problem on this team.
Working bottom up - they didn't sign extensions because they thought the $ was too low, not because they wanted out of town. All three have indicated they would consider signing here again. (I am not advocating that, and certainly not predicting that will happen as I don't expect it.)

AA - Marquez and Davis.
SS - not at AA or AAA but Howard and the younger guy behind him are very solid SS prospects.
2B - Hoerner and Madrigal
3B - a SS who doesn't win the job at short, possibly.

1B - not much.
OF? A little deeper than AA/AAA but they got solid prospects for the OF, in addition to Davis.

AAA? Though it sounds counterintuitive, it's rare to find an organization's best prospects in AAA.

I agree they need to spend $ going forward, though I don't necessarily think it has to be (or has to not be, for that matter) this coming offseason. Depends on how they spend it, of course.
 

jts1207

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Eloy Jiminez? You mean the same Eloy Jiminez who only broke into the majors in 2019, which was 2 seasons after the Cubs traded him? The same Eloy Jiminez who would have been blocked by Kyle Schwarber in 2019, who hit 38 homers for the Cubs that year and had a 2.3 WAR? Yeah, 4 years later the White Sox got 2 players who will be there "for years." One of them is injured, plays a position that doesn't exist in the NL, and has only seen 9 games this year while the other is their #4 starter. Cubs only got and NLCS trip out of it. The only mistake on the Cubs' part, imo, is they didn't trade Quintana after the 2018 season.


 

Castor76

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That's why there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. All that is true. What I posted is also true and has context. Jiminez has only appeared in 9 games so far for the White Sox this year. He is listed as their DH, a position that doesn't exist in the NL except of interleague games. He was traded in 2017 and didn't make the majors until 2019. The player who was blocking him from being on the Cubs' major league roster had a better year in 2019 than Eloy did. Eloy might go on to have a HoF career on the South Side. It doesn't change the reality that he was never going to be anything more than a trade chip for the Cubs when he was there. Schwarber had 91 RBI for the Cubs in 2019 and over 40% of his ABs were from lead off. The Cubs got a good result in 2017 after the trade. It wasn't another title, but only one team a year can get that. They don't make that trade, they probably don't make the NLCS in 17 and if they trade Schwarber away to make room for Eloy, the 2021 Cubs then get the benefit of all 9 games, scratch that, 10 games he's played this year. What good are those numbers if it takes 3 seasons to play 162 games? I know 2020 was cut short. He still only got just over 120 games in 2019. No 2021 numbers help the 2017 Cubs. That was the trade off. Cubs got results in 2017 when they wanted. White Sox are getting results years later when they wanted.
 

CSF77

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That's why there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. All that is true. What I posted is also true and has context. Jiminez has only appeared in 9 games so far for the White Sox this year. He is listed as their DH, a position that doesn't exist in the NL except of interleague games. He was traded in 2017 and didn't make the majors until 2019. The player who was blocking him from being on the Cubs' major league roster had a better year in 2019 than Eloy did. Eloy might go on to have a HoF career on the South Side. It doesn't change the reality that he was never going to be anything more than a trade chip for the Cubs when he was there. Schwarber had 91 RBI for the Cubs in 2019 and over 40% of his ABs were from lead off. The Cubs got a good result in 2017 after the trade. It wasn't another title, but only one team a year can get that. They don't make that trade, they probably don't make the NLCS in 17 and if they trade Schwarber away to make room for Eloy, the 2021 Cubs then get the benefit of all 9 games, scratch that, 10 games he's played this year. What good are those numbers if it takes 3 seasons to play 162 games? I know 2020 was cut short. He still only got just over 120 games in 2019. No 2021 numbers help the 2017 Cubs. That was the trade off. Cubs got results in 2017 when they wanted. White Sox are getting results years later when they wanted.

I don't believe that the basis of this post is the issue.

Part sour grapes. Ya Q came up short for 2 top 100 prospects.

Part on the Cubs. They paid too much for a non staff ace. That is what you pay for Sale. Not his 2nd fiddle.

But using prospects to trade for established. It is part of the business. But the market has shifted to 2nd tier as trade goods and adding numbers vs demanding blue chips. Blue chips are now being used by the buyers and are becoming far more valuable due to the hoarding aspect than in the past.

Is that a obivious take hommy?
 

Castor76

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Is that a obivious take hommy?

Were you trying to spell "obvious" or "oblivious" and "homie"? Did you use to work in the mail service? That might explain late letters. Go Youtube some "In Living Color" skits and use spell check.

Stop padding your post count.
 

CSF77

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Were you trying to spell "obvious" or "oblivious" and "homie"? Did you use to work in the mail service? That might explain late letters. Go Youtube some "In Living Color" skits and use spell check.

Stop padding your post count.
U mad bro?
 

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