The reality of a Watson/Wilson trade.

[iueyedoc]

Sure, both would instantly become the likely best QB in franchise.
That said, the reality is the Bears would likely be in a 3-4 yr rebuild mode around that QB.

The Bears have deficiencies at LT, RT, WR, ILB, NB at the very least and would likely be looking at additional holes at MLB and CB as parts of any trade to get the franchise QB's mentioned. With little draft ammo, no cap space, and 1/3 of the cap used on 3 players ( Mack,Quinn, DW/RW), creating a championship caliber team seems like a long shot in my opinion.

Now the other option, to roll out Foles/Smith/Fitz/Dalton and some rookie is not that more palatable of a proposition, but while if the Bears do get a splash QB, after the initial post ejaculatory adrenaline rush, my expectations of the team will not be any better.

I kinda hate to say it but the smartest move may be the less sexy initially.

 

[SugarWalls]

Real boner killer of a thread bud

 

[ZOMBIE@CTESPN]

You’re the perfect fan for a franchise that operates like the bears

 

[modo]

 

[iueyedoc]

You’re the perfect fan for a franchise that operates like the bears

Funny thing is the Bears have been one of the most active teams in the last decade+ in star player moves, Cutler, Peppers, Mack, Quinn wereall huge money or draft capital acquistions . It's actually fans like you that want to chase the next expensive shiny toy that they have been appeasing for years because they lack the ability to do what every sustainable franchise does, build from within.

The problem lies with they guys making the picks, not their willingness to get a new rabbit for Lenny fans to hug and squeeze to death.

https://imgur.com/a/XKnDpFI

 

[bufordht]

You're right.

You're right

(telling you twice in case you're married and don't hear it enough).

Luckily the nfl has shown teams can turn around quickly. The best strategy might be to do a quick tear down, see what picks they can get for the older defenders let AR walk and take the comp pick. Hope they can get it back together in 3 years.

 

[ChiGuy]

Sure, both would instantly become the likely best QB in franchise.
That said, the reality is the Bears would likely be in a 3-4 yr rebuild mode around that QB.

The Bears have deficiencies at LT, RT, WR, ILB, NB at the very least and would likely be looking at additional holes at MLB and CB as parts of any trade to get the franchise QB's mentioned. With little draft ammo, no cap space, and 1/3 of the cap used on 3 players ( Mack,Quinn, DW/RW), creating a championship caliber team seems like a long shot in my opinion.

Now the other option, to roll out Foles/Smith/Fitz/Dalton and some rookie is not that more palatable of a proposition, but while if the Bears do get a splash QB, after the initial post ejaculatory adrenaline rush, my expectations of the team will not be any better.

I kinda hate to say it but the smartest move may be the less sexy initially.

Would it be smart of Pace & Nagy to essentially surrender their jobs as you’re suggesting? What incentive would they have to do that?

Personally, I think the Bears would be better off with something they’ve never had - an elite QB - than have a bunch of first round picks. Especially when the Bears have only hit on one of Pace’s first round selections.

 

[Montucky]

Would it be smart of Pace & Nagy to essentially surrender their jobs as you’re suggesting? What incentive would they have to do that?

Personally, I think the Bears would be better off with something they’ve never had - an elite QB - than have a bunch of first round picks. Especially when the Bears have only hit on one of Pace’s first round selections.

The NFC North is going to be putrid next year by the looks of it. Minnesota, Green Bay and Detroit (due to the cap crunch as a result of the Stafford trade) are all mired in cap hell this off-season. They are all going to be worse with the possible except of Detroit, who probably will stay around the same. If the Bears make improvements to the offensive line and get some bounceback years of out of Eddie Jackson and Robert Quinn there is no reason the Bears can't win the division. No way these guys lose their jobs if they win the North.

They can even do this while trading this years first and next year's first to move up in the draft and grab a rookie quarterback. But, if they can get Russell Wilson for that same cost then really the decision is pretty obvious. Remains to be seen whether Wilson can be had at that price, I don't think it comes close to grabbing Watson.

I tend to agree with OP. Build the offensive line as a first priority and take the quarterback situation as it comes. That's how you get team success.

 

[ChiGuy]

The NFC North is going to be putrid next year by the looks of it. Minnesota, Green Bay and Detroit (due to the cap crunch as a result of the Stafford trade) are all mired in cap hell this off-season. They are all going to be worse with the possible except of Detroit, who probably will stay around the same. If the Bears make improvements to the offensive line and get some bounceback years of out of Eddie Jackson and Robert Quinn there is no reason the Bears can't win the division. No way these guys lose their jobs if they win the North.

They can even do this while trading this years first and next year's first to move up in the draft and grab a rookie quarterback. But, if they can get Russell Wilson for that same cost then really the decision is pretty obvious. Remains to be seen whether Wilson can be had at that price, I don't think it comes close to grabbing Watson.

I tend to agree with OP. Build the offensive line as a first priority and take the quarterback situation as it comes. That's how you get team success.

There are other rounds, why can’t you pick up a RT in round 2?

The Bears have never had a top QB, a bunch of first round picks in the hope of unearthing your first in over 100 years aren’t worth as much as a known quantity.

How about get the QB - the priority position in all of sport - and work everything else out afterwards?

 

[Montucky]

How about get the QB - the priority position in all of sport - and work everything else out afterwards?

I don't think this works. It leads to young quarterbacks getting hit way too much and getting mentally or physically ruined. Its such a high-pressure position that comes with such intense scrutiny from fans and the media, if a guy doesn't show it in the first couple weeks of his career you'll have people who will start insisting almost immediately that "he ain't the guy".

Whereas you plug a young quarterback into a situation with a great offensive line and talented receivers he doesn't get rattled and probably starts off his career more confidently. You yourself say its the most important position in all of sports, doesn't it make sense the give that guy every chance in the world to succeed instead of just throwing him to the wolves?

 

[BaBaBlacksheep]

Funny thing is the Bears have been one of the most active teams in the last decade+ in star player moves, Cutler, Peppers, Mack, Quinn wereall huge money or draft capital acquistions . It's actually fans like you that want to chase the next expensive shiny toy that they have been appeasing for years because they lack the ability to do what every sustainable franchise does, build from within.

The problem lies with they guys making the picks, not their willingness to get a new rabbit for Lenny fans to hug and squeeze to death.

https://imgur.com/a/XKnDpFI

Oh I don't disagree with this. If I was George I would have fired Pace and dropped a 10 megaton nuke on the whole thing.

But George is a giant fucking pussy that likes shiny toys....

 

[mecha]

There are other rounds, why can’t you pick up a RT in round 2?

The Bears have never had a top QB, a bunch of first round picks in the hope of unearthing your first in over 100 years aren’t worth as much as a known quantity.

How about get the QB - the priority position in all of sport - and work everything else out afterwards?

option 1:
trade 2021, 2022, 2023 1sts, 2nds, 3rds to get Watson (what are you going to work out after that deal? you still need linemen and top flight receiving talent to make the system work)

option 2:
trade 2021, 2022 1sts to move up in 1st round (not as horrible, really, given Pace's ineptitude early in draft; risk of yet another quarterback bust however)

option 3:
keep your picks and just draft a quarterback later in the 1st round, it's not as if there haven't been high level quarterbacks drafted OUTSIDE the 1st round before, I don't understand why everyone thinks they can exclusively be obtained within the first 5 picks

for posterity, there have been MANY quarterbacks taken in the first 5 picks that were busts that were not starters ever again after their rookie deals or out of the league completely. that's because those players are the ones people constantly over-fellate based on things they've done at the college level that are unable to duplicate those successes at the professional level. you can make any quarterback great with better coaching and if they have the discipline to want to learn and improve. the best quarterbacks in the league are on teams with premier offensive staffs, which you can all proclaim the difference maker being the elusive quarterback, I think having inferior staffs is the reason they can't get over this hump. Trubisky was an inexperienced player coming into the league that physically was able to make all the right moves. maybe he's just stupid though, but I think we can all recognize Nagy hasn't been the offensive guru that he was proclaimed to be when he was hired.

 

[Chicago4Life]

Sure, both would instantly become the likely best QB in franchise.
That said, the reality is the Bears would likely be in a 3-4 yr rebuild mode around that QB.

The Bears have deficiencies at LT, RT, WR, ILB, NB at the very least and would likely be looking at additional holes at MLB and CB as parts of any trade to get the franchise QB's mentioned. With little draft ammo, no cap space, and 1/3 of the cap used on 3 players ( Mack,Quinn, DW/RW), creating a championship caliber team seems like a long shot in my opinion.

Now the other option, to roll out Foles/Smith/Fitz/Dalton and some rookie is not that more palatable of a proposition, but while if the Bears do get a splash QB, after the initial post ejaculatory adrenaline rush, my expectations of the team will not be any better.

I kinda hate to say it but the smartest move may be the less sexy initially.

so unless there has been a new development about what the seahawks asking price is, more than likely it will be something like 3, 1st rd picks and a young asset and/or foles to make salaries work for both sides.
if they are asking for roquan who was a former first then i dont see them also getting three 1st rd picks...if anything i can see the seahawks asking for a CB given their depth chart isnt very strong in the secondary. Fuller is an all pro so he makes a lot of sense or johnson but given his shoulder problem i'm not sure they want to take on that injury risk.

I also dont see the seahawks having as much leverage when this initially started given the 4 teams wilson mentioned...The cowboys are progressing with dak, the raiders have lots of work to do on that defense and given that carr just had one of his best years i dont see gruden paying multiple 1st rd picks...As for the saints, they would be a real threat but again being over the cap by an excess of 40 mill, they have a lot of work ahead of them. If wilson decides to expand his list of teams he'd like to play for the leverage is then gone and the bears will have to offer more to entice seattle.

I dont disagree that there are deficiencies at multiple positions but if there is something pace has done in his tenure, its find cheap fa deals and day2 and day 3 draft picks who far exceed their value.. This year will be the toughest given covid causing the salary cap decrease...If things return to normal for 22, you can expect the cap to increase from ~180 to ~220 creating 40 mill in space in addition to what is left over.

Having wilson will also make the bears a legitimate superbowl contender, free agents will actually want to come for a chance to win a ring and not be all about getting paid.

 

[WestCoastBearsFan]

it’s much easier to build a team when you have the leader of that team on the roster already

 

[ChiGuy]

I don't think this works. It leads to young quarterbacks getting hit way too much and getting mentally or physically ruined. Its such a high-pressure position that comes with such intense scrutiny from fans and the media, if a guy doesn't show it in the first couple weeks of his career you'll have people who will start insisting almost immediately that "he ain't the guy".

Whereas you plug a young quarterback into a situation with a great offensive line and talented receivers he doesn't get rattled and probably starts off his career more confidently. You yourself say its the most important position in all of sports, doesn't it make sense the give that guy every chance in the world to succeed instead of just throwing him to the wolves?

What young QB? What great offensive line? When?

That’s a great picture to paint but what makes you think that’s going to happen for the first time ever in Chicago.

I don’t understand why you’d prefer to try catch lightning in a bottle than have a Wilson or Watson.

 

[Montucky]

What young QB? What great offensive line? When?

If you are just going to be this defeatist then there's no sense even having a discussion.

 

[kalmavet]

yeah, the bears should just keep doing the "no QB, but try to be good everywhere else" routine they've been doing for 30+ years because it's working so well.

Even without first round picks, you can still find everything but the QB easier than you can find the QB with first round picks. See also the first round track record for 80% of the Bears 1st round picks in the last 30+ years.

Obviously, the Bears need more than QB but if Pace has proven to do anything well it's drafting mid-to-late rounds. Get the QB, fix the roster. Waiting to get the QB until the roster is better is the same f'n road we've been on this whole f'n time.

 

[Montucky]

yeah, the bears should just keep doing the "no QB, but try to be good everywhere else" routine they've been doing for 30+ years because it's working so well.

Yeah and the Texans just tried the "hope a great quarterback can carry you to wins" and won four games. Got blown the fuck out by that Bears team you hate so much. Grass isn't always greener.

 

[ChiGuy]

If you are just going to be this defeatist then there's no sense even having a discussion.

How is that being defeatist? They took a shot at a young QB and they missed on two generational talents in doing so. He isn’t getting time to maybe target a young QB in future unless he does something NOW.

The situation they’re in, Pace & Nagy, Watson or Wilson save them their jobs. Backing into playoffs again and showing no improvement in the QB position when they made Mitch the scapegoat in the ‘everything is fine’ end of season presser won’t wash.

 

[ChiGuy]

Yeah and the Texans just tried the "hope a great quarterback can carry you to wins" and won four games. Got blown the fuck out by that Bears team you hate so much. Grass isn't always greener.

Say what you want about the Bears, they ain’t the clusterfuck that is the Texans. Maybe the worst run team in sport, not just football.

Wilson obviously has a different impression of Chicago than you do.