The Ringer on the Bulls

[zack54attack]

The Bulls Are the NBA’s Most Depressing Team

Chicago has backed itself into an unenviable corner and possibly the worst situation in the entire league. Changes could be coming soon.

www.theringer.com

Agree or disagree?

 

[clonetrooper264]

Yup basically

 

[Enasic]

Meanwhile, the Bulls are minus-6.0 when DeRozan, Vucevic, and LaVine share the floor.

?

Its obviously the correct move to blow this thing up and pray to the basketball Gods you keep the top 4 protected pick. This group isn’t it and will not magically become a thing. Cash out your assets while you can do not sit on your hands and GarPax this thing to a slow death.

 

[zack54attack]

The problem with tanking and trading everyone is that it's still a 50% percent shot they wouldn't keep their pick:

Let’s not mince words: The window that cracked open after DeRozan was acquired is closed. If any team in the entire league should tank, it’s this one. The first-round pick they owe to the Magic in next year’s draft is top-four protected. Finishing with one of the three worst records in the league would guarantee a 52.1 percent chance to keep that pick in a draft that may transform the sport.

 

[Enasic]

The problem with tanking and trading everyone is that it's still a 50% percent shot they wouldn't keep their pick:

Sure, but there’s a 0% chance this team is going to win a championship and aren’t in a position to sign a star. I’d take a 52% chance at a top 4 pick as opposed to sticking with this shit show. Easy decision

 

[zack54attack]

Sure, but there’s a 0% chance this team is going to win a championship and aren’t in a position to sign a star. I’d take a 52% chance at a top 4 pick as opposed to sticking with this shit show. Easy decision

I dont disagree. I think they should blow it up. But there's absolutely no guarantee they keep that pick. Sets them back another year at least additionally, IMO.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Bulls basically gambled and lost in the worst possible way. I don't necessarily blame them for gambling, and for 3 months it looked like it would amount to something, but it has turned out the opposite.

They should just blow it up immediately, but they won't. I know they won't. They'll reset after the season, by then it'll be too late as we'll have sent another lotto pick to Orlando and gotten nothing for Vuc. But hey, maybe they'll still fire BD

 

[Enasic]

I dont disagree. I think they should blow it up. But there's absolutely no guarantee they keep that pick. Sets them back another year at least additionally, IMO.

Just highlights the fleece job that the Magic put on AKME but it is what it is. Need to at least try to get it back. It’s also worth mentioning that blowing it up brings back more than just a chance at the pick. They’ll also receive other assets from the trades. Likely, at least 2 1st round picks and a young player or two.

 

[zack54attack]

Bulls basically gambled and lost in the worst possible way. I don't necessarily blame them for gambling, and for 3 months it looked like it would amount to something, but it has turned out the opposite.

They should just blow it up immediately, but they won't. I know they won't. They'll reset after the season, by then it'll be too late as we'll have sent another lotto pick to Orlando and gotten nothing for Vuc. But hey, maybe they'll still fire BD

I was fine at the time of the Vuc trade for a few reasons. mainly they picked a lane and tried. But it might backfire on them now.

 

[zack54attack]

Just highlights the fleece job that the Magic put on AKME but it is what it is. Need to at least try to get it back. It’s also worth mentioning that blowing it up brings back more than just a chance at the pick. They’ll also receive other assets from the trades. Likely, at least 2 1st round picks and a young player or two.

Even the firsts they get back though will be late round or protected. It's just a shitty situation right now to be in.

And Im in the camp of blowing it up.

Realistically, you keep Ayo and PWill. Dont think anyone is trading for LaVine's contract

 

[Enasic]

Even the firsts they get back though will be late round or protected. It's just a shitty situation right now to be in.

And Im in the camp of blowing it up.

Realistically, you keep Ayo and PWill. Dont think anyone is trading for LaVine's contract

There would be protections on the picks but those parameters are flexible. Agreed it is a shitty situation to be in.

Don’t think LaVine gets traded. His value is at an all time low right now, not the time to trade him. Revisit it next season

Things I’d explore

Taking back a bad contract and trading Vuc for a 1st. Maybe it falls in the 15-25 range

Trade DeRozan for 2 1sts. Sure there will be protections on it, but I could see a team being desperate for his services. Maybe top 5 protected. Would also depend on who the team is and how good they are

Trade Caruso for whatever picks you can. 2nd rounder? Fine

Trade Coby for whatever. 2nd rounder? Fine.

This opens up a lot of PT for PWill, Terry, Green, and DJJ. Bulls get back draft capital which they sorely lack (remember, might not have their 2025 1st), and if they are fortunate, get their top 4 protected pick back. If it all unfolded like that, there’s at least reason for optimism.

 

[Scoot26]

Just for the record... the 2023 Bulls 1st is Top 4 protected, the 2025 Bulls 1st is Top 10 protected.

 

[redgrange19]

Blow it up, this team is worse to watch than the Bears.

I do have to ask, how would we be feeling if we hung on to that Magic game (inexcusable loss), and beat the Thunder?

 

[clonetrooper264]

Blow it up, this team is worse to watch than the Bears.

I do have to ask, how would we be feeling if we hung on to that Magic game (inexcusable loss), and beat the Thunder?

A little bit better because those losses suck, but even the they're still just a .500 team

 

[clonetrooper264]

I was fine at the time of the Vuc trade for a few reasons. mainly they picked a lane and tried. But it might backfire on them now.

They gambled and unfortunately it completed went the opposite way. I agree though, it felt like at least an ok move at the time.

Let's not get it completely twisted, Wendell was never healthy in his tenure here, playing 119 out of 2.5 seasons worth of games (~200 roughly). He only averaged like 10ppg (Granted this is with mostly Jim Boylen), though we could see his potential. His 3pt shooting was not there yet. Meanwhile Vuc was a legit all star at the time, arguably still is if he was a #1 option. We gave up a lot, but got back an all star player. It was definitely an eye opening move for the fans and probably for the league.

Things just can't seem to go the Bulls' way though, it has crumbled to the ground magnificently.

 

[knoxville7]

There would be protections on the picks but those parameters are flexible. Agreed it is a shitty situation to be in.

Don’t think LaVine gets traded. His value is at an all time low right now, not the time to trade him. Revisit it next season

Things I’d explore

Taking back a bad contract and trading Vuc for a 1st. Maybe it falls in the 15-25 range

Trade DeRozan for 2 1sts. Sure there will be protections on it, but I could see a team being desperate for his services. Maybe top 5 protected. Would also depend on who the team is and how good they are

Trade Caruso for whatever picks you can. 2nd rounder? Fine

Trade Coby for whatever. 2nd rounder? Fine.

This opens up a lot of PT for PWill, Terry, Green, and DJJ. Bulls get back draft capital which they sorely lack (remember, might not have their 2025 1st), and if they are fortunate, get their top 4 protected pick back. If it all unfolded like that, there’s at least reason for optimism.

I know you like to dog on Caruso, bit from the article…

“And while we’re discussing bright spots: I don’t care what Alex Caruso is shooting. He’s a vanguard for Chicago’s defense, which is where and how the Bulls win games. These two plays help illustrate why they are plus-77 when he plays and minus-79 when he sits.”

 

[Scoot26]

They gambled and unfortunately it completed went the opposite way. I agree though, it felt like at least an ok move at the time.

Let's not get it completely twisted, Wendell was never healthy in his tenure here, playing 119 out of 2.5 seasons worth of games (~200 roughly). He only averaged like 10ppg (Granted this is with mostly Jim Boylen), though we could see his potential. His 3pt shooting was not there yet. Meanwhile Vuc was a legit all star at the time, arguably still is if he was a #1 option. We gave up a lot, but got back an all star player. It was definitely an eye opening move for the fans and probably for the league.

Things just can't seem to go the Bulls' way though, it has crumbled to the ground magnificently.

Another reason why I'm for a tear down and complete re-build.

It's not secret you're not going to win shit in the NBA without a top 5-10 guy (and really it's more like Top 3). The best way to acquire someone like that is the draft. Even then, it's friggin' hard. The Bulls have lucked into it an entire three times in their franchise history (which is more than some other teams have). They lucked into the GOAT, a good sidekick player for the GOAT who was closer top 10th best player in the league than in the top 5, and then had a short stint with another guy who lasted a whole 1.5 seasons at peak levels until he tore his ACL. The Bulls have basically been trying to recover from that ACL injury since.

The quick turn around AK went for, I had nothing against it. I knew they weren't championship moves but after looking like relative shit for 7 years or whatever it was, it was nice to have something to look forward to,, have a team be competitive, and even be entertained by watching it. Though it fell apart at the end of last season really. This year, they don't quite have that dead in the water (well most of the time anyways) look they had to the end of last season, but they're simply not going to replicate what they managed to do the first half of last season.

 

[Enasic]

I know you like to dog on Caruso, bit from the article…

“And while we’re discussing bright spots: I don’t care what Alex Caruso is shooting. He’s a vanguard for Chicago’s defense, which is where and how the Bulls win games. These two plays help illustrate why they are plus-77 when he plays and minus-79 when he sits.”

I saw that. Maybe some team will think he’s worth a 1st lol Part of the reason for that stat is that Zach, Vuc, and Demar are a minus when they’re all on the floor and all 3 are poor defenders. The starters have been getting off to bad starts all year and the 2nd unit brings the fight with Caruso, Green, Drummond, and dragic.

 

[knoxville7]

I saw that. Maybe some team will think he’s worth a 1st lol Part of the reason for that stat is that Zach, Vuc, and Demar are a minus when they’re all on the floor and all 3 are poor defenders. The starters have been getting off to bad starts all year and the 2nd unit brings the fight with Caruso, Green, Drummond, and dragic.

Whatever the reason, it’s pretty clear the bulls are better when he’s on the court than not out there.

 

[Enasic]

Whatever the reason, it’s pretty clear the bulls are better when he’s on the court than not out there.

Great. Teams should be lining up to give us a 1st for him, even better.