Trade Deadline/Future Line discussion

[ruprecht]

I traded Strome to the Kraken for a second round pick for leaving him unprotected instead of Hino.
I guess I will rethink El Gato...

but Suter is there because Dach can't win faceoffs too good yet and he doesn't fit a 200 foot line with Toews.

So you get the heart of a third scoring line and put him on first power play...let him play some line rotisserie and jump in often like Kaner to balance out his minutes and keep the opposition from making a plan for him.

Probably only him and Kane are good enough offensively to be doing that with. There are certain game situations I would probably flip flop Cat and Suter there...yeah?
I think ultimately Harry Potter has us headed toward optimizing situational hockey, but with the thin depth this year he backed off of it and had to get some continuity?

Hagel/Suter/Cat-Toews-Kubalik
Suter/draft/sign/trade/Cat-Dach-Kane
Cat/Borg/Kurashev/Reichel/Nylander/Suter
Carp-Kampf-Nylander/Kurashev/Reichel...etc

You think Reichel makes it next year? Just curious

 

[Raskolnikov]

You think Reichel makes it next year? Just curious

Unless they baby him. He's more or less ready to compete the way the league is now. If he's not ready I think it was a stupid pick for the Hawks over the sturdy defenseman.

 

[Raskolnikov]

Judging by his ppg he took another step this year. He needs to at least come to North America, I think his progress would be delayed by another year just to prove he can get to 1 ppg where he is.

 

[Diehardfan]

Snipped to address specific point: this is exactly what the Hawks are planning on doing with De Haan. Ben Pope tweeted this a couple days ago, see below. I don't think the Hawks will want to lose Zadorov.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1381690651645992961

Well if that turns into fact and Seattle does indeed grab De hann.....pretty certain the Hawks won't invest another 3-4 million on a guy like Zadorov who is pretty much a statue out there. They could be rid of both of them. More of the kids getting ice time.

I like it.

 

[Raskolnikov]

Well if that turns into fact and Seattle does indeed grab De hann.....pretty certain the Hawks won't invest another 3-4 million on a guy like Zadorov who is pretty much a statue out there. They could be rid of both of them. More of the kids getting ice time.

I like it.

Yeah...I think by exposing players like De Hann and Connolly it can bait them to the negotiating table to grease us exposing another player.

I believe originally Stan was going to offer nothing, like Bowey and Suppan, etc....but something has changed and perhaps if they studied the last expansion they would see players like DeHaan and Connolly that the Kraken won't want to eat cap with force them to the negotiating table to deal from a plethora of picks they are getting from others paying them to take certain players, etc.

Perhaps we can get picks back for a player like Strome, or like a big surprise, if Toews wanted out, perhaps some evil plan emerges where the Kraken make Toews their "Captain Neal" the real deal type center piece to legitimize the team and send Toews to pasture in a beautiful part of the world, as well as attain an interesting pick or two while shedding salary.

Thats pretty wild speculation but the situation with Toews is pretty weird.

 

[Granada]

Well if that turns into fact and Seattle does indeed grab De hann.....pretty certain the Hawks won't invest another 3-4 million on a guy like Zadorov who is pretty much a statue out there. They could be rid of both of them. More of the kids getting ice time.

I like it.

Anything is possible, especially Bowman's strategy of acquiring shiny new toys, only to immediately flip them -- but if the "we want to be a more physical team" sound bite from the front office is true, you'd want a guy like Zadorov on a rebuilding team, in my view. I've said it before and I'll say it again: even on a rebuilding team, you still need a few veterans. You can't just ice an AHL team every night, and the kids need someone to learn from on-ice. Kane and Keith for example are going nowhere, if they want to stay, and I'm starting to get comfortable with that now. I've never been adverse to trading either of them, but if they are intent on staying, so be it. You could also probably add Murphy to that list of vets who will end up staying.

 

[LordKOTL]

Anything is possible, especially Bowman's strategy of acquiring shiny new toys, only to immediately flip them -- but if the "we want to be a more physical team" sound bite from the front office is true, you'd want a guy like Zadorov on a rebuilding team, in my view. I've said it before and I'll say it again: even on a rebuilding team, you still need a few veterans. You can't just ice an AHL team every night, and the kids need someone to learn from on-ice. Kane and Keith for example are going nowhere, if they want to stay, and I'm starting to get comfortable with that now. I've never been adverse to trading either of them, but if they are intent on staying, so be it. You could also probably add Murphy to that list of vets who will end up staying.

Bingo. The crux of that though is they need the right vets. Kane, Keith, Murph, etc. are definitely the right vets to be around. The last thing the 'hawks would need is the 2nd coming of Dr. Karpovtzev, to use an extreme example.

The thing about this expansion draft is that the Karens will pick who they want to pick, and just because we expose someone doesn't mean they'll be gone. So yeah, I'd like DeHaan gone and most likley he'll be exposed, but they can just come in and take Subban instead (maybe as a serviceable backup?), or maybe they take Connelly...and we still have to deal with the DeHaan issue.

I think the 'hawks are set up well because the players that they likely will expose are players which are not a major piece moving forward. We don't really have to give up a lot to prevent the Karens from taking someone we value since we're not exposing much value. That being said if the cost isn't too high and we can entice them to take, say, DeHaan and it won't cost much I'd be all for it.

 

[Diehardfan]

Anything is possible, especially Bowman's strategy of acquiring shiny new toys, only to immediately flip them -- but if the "we want to be a more physical team" sound bite from the front office is true, you'd want a guy like Zadorov on a rebuilding team, in my view. I've said it before and I'll say it again: even on a rebuilding team, you still need a few veterans. You can't just ice an AHL team every night, and the kids need someone to learn from on-ice. Kane and Keith for example are going nowhere, if they want to stay, and I'm starting to get comfortable with that now. I've never been adverse to trading either of them, but if they are intent on staying, so be it. You could also probably add Murphy to that list of vets who will end up staying.

What's wrong with the kids picking up things from proven pros like Keith or Murphy? Who wants a slow, big stiff like Zadorov teaching these kids how to take nights off? He does that regularly, you know along with taking dumbass penalties. Enough so, that he was just a healthy scratch the other night. I don't care how big his body is....I'm more concerned how big his heart is. IMOP, they could do better elsewhere.

 

[greg23]

Zadorov sucks.

Wouldn't mind seeing him scratched the rest of this year and dumped in the off season.

 

[Granada]

What's wrong with the kids picking up things from proven pros like Keith or Murphy? Who wants a slow, big stiff like Zadorov teaching these kids how to take nights off? He does that regularly, you know along with taking dumbass penalties. Enough so, that he was just a healthy scratch the other night. I don't care how big his body is....I'm more concerned how big his heart is. IMOP, they could do better elsewhere.

Nothing is wrong is with it, which is why I said I'm comfortable with them staying in my previous post. Again, Zadorov would be kept because having a physical presence who can hold the opposition accountable is important, especially for a rebuilding team; and Bowman has said he wants a more physical team.

 

[Granada]

Bingo. The crux of that though is they need the right vets. Kane, Keith, Murph, etc. are definitely the right vets to be around. The last thing the 'hawks would need is the 2nd coming of Dr. Karpovtzev, to use an extreme example.

The thing about this expansion draft is that the Karens will pick who they want to pick, and just because we expose someone doesn't mean they'll be gone. So yeah, I'd like DeHaan gone and most likley he'll be exposed, but they can just come in and take Subban instead (maybe as a serviceable backup?), or maybe they take Connelly...and we still have to deal with the DeHaan issue.

I think the 'hawks are set up well because the players that they likely will expose are players which are not a major piece moving forward. We don't really have to give up a lot to prevent the Karens from taking someone we value since we're not exposing much value. That being said if the cost isn't too high and we can entice them to take, say, DeHaan and it won't cost much I'd be all for it.

Agreed, they are set up well no matter what. Even if De Haan isn't picked by Seattle, his contract is up the next year anyway. There are no long-term contracts on this team right now; they all expire by 2023, if not earlier (with the exception of Seabrook's, which is 2024).

I wouldn't expect the team to "learn" from Zadorov, but you can't deny that players love having a guy like this on their team. That's why John Scott was one of the most popular presences in the locker-room. If you're willing to stick up for team-mates -- not necessarily by fighting but even by jawing with opposing punks -- that goes a long way in the locker-room. Guess my point is, I wouldn't be heartbroken to see Zadorov go, but there is logic in keeping him on a young/rebuilding team; if not him, someone like him. He's an RFA after this year so who knows what happens.

 

[Diehardfan]

Nothing is wrong is with it, which is why I said I'm comfortable with them staying in my previous post. Again, Zadorov would be kept because having a physical presence who can hold the opposition accountable is important, especially for a rebuilding team; and Bowman has said he wants a more physical team.

They are paying this stiff $3.20 million a year. His contract is up after this year....you really think the Hawks will pay him that kind of money again to run into people, take nights off and commit terminally stupid penalties? I don't. So hopefully the Kraken grab De hann, which actually wouldn't be a bad move for an expansion team for the exact reason you mentioned....while the Hawks remove two pieces of dead weight from the roster.

 

[Granada]

They are paying this stiff $3.20 million a year. His contract is up after this year....you really think the Hawks will pay him that kind of money again to run into people, take nights off and commit terminally stupid penalties? I don't. So hopefully the Kraken grab De hann, which actually wouldn't be a bad move for an expansion team for the exact reason you mentioned....while the Hawks remove two pieces of dead weight from the roster.

People need understand that you get what you pay for. I'm interested to know who you have in mind that is cheaper and would be both a legit physical presence and a better D-man than Zadorov for a cheaper price, who is also available?

3.2 isn't peanuts but it isn't astronomical either. Just saying.

 

[Diehardfan]

People need understand that you get what you pay for. I'm interested to know who you have in mind that is cheaper and would be both a legit physical presence and a better D-man than Zadorov for a cheaper price, who is also available?

3.2 isn't peanuts but it isn't astronomical either. Just saying.

Physicallity will only take you far. In the end, you have to be able to play NHL hockey. You mentioned John Scott....did you know that over an 8 year career he averaged only 35 games a year. Zadorov is heading in that direction. Watch when Zadorov hits the ice....Hawks are usually under siege when he does. I hate when his turn coincides with Kaner's line. They spend his whole shift trying to clear the defensive zone. Can he hit, yes he can....does he stick up for teammates....sometimes. Can he handle the puck, no. Can he skate...I'm laughing. Can he pass the puck.....well, he does a nice job of putting the puck on the other team's sticks... Can he join the rush.....I'm upchucking. He doesn't even shoot the puck that well. You can toss his laziness and perchant for dumb penalties into the mix as well. If that's what $3.2 mill gets you these days, I'm fairly certain you can get results like that from nearly any AHLer.

 

[hawkinmontreal]

Unless they baby him. He's more or less ready to compete the way the league is now. If he's not ready I think it was a stupid pick for the Hawks over the sturdy defenseman.

I agree with that, if Stan went off the page to select him, he should be in the lineup next season. If not, what a waste of a pick.

 

[LordKOTL]

Physicallity will only take you far. In the end, you have to be able to play NHL hockey. You mentioned John Scott....did you know that over an 8 year career he averaged only 35 games a year. Zadorov is heading in that direction. Watch when Zadorov hits the ice....Hawks are usually under siege when he does. I hate when his turn coincides with Kaner's line. They spend his whole shift trying to clear the defensive zone. Can he hit, yes he can....does he stick up for teammates....sometimes. Can he handle the puck, no. Can he skate...I'm laughing. Can he pass the puck.....well, he does a nice job of putting the puck on the other team's sticks... Can he join the rush.....I'm upchucking. He doesn't even shoot the puck that well. You can toss his laziness and perchant for dumb penalties into the mix as well. If that's what $3.2 mill gets you these days, I'm fairly certain you can get results like that from nearly any AHLer.

...and yet 4.5M gets you and even worse defenseman, Can't pass, Can't Sake, Pinches too far for his speed, Doesn't Hit, No Snarl, No pack mentality, Bad at puck handling, passes to the opposition even more, and the clincher, is even worse positionally on D than Zadorov.

At least Zadorov has a physical game that the D-youth doesn't really bring. Most of our D-youth already outclasses DeHaan in every respect.

The main difference is Zadorov is an RFA (arbitration eligible) this summer. The 'hawks hold the cards. We're stuck with DeHaan unless someone takes him off of our hands.

 

[Diehardfan]

...and yet 4.5M gets you and even worse defenseman, Can't pass, Can't Sake, Pinches too far for his speed, Doesn't Hit, No Snarl, No pack mentality, Bad at puck handling, passes to the opposition even more, and the clincher, is even worse positionally on D than Zadorov.

At least Zadorov has a physical game that the D-youth doesn't really bring. Most of our D-youth already outclasses DeHaan in every respect.

The main difference is Zadorov is an RFA (arbitration eligible) this summer. The 'hawks hold the cards. We're stuck with DeHaan unless someone takes him off of our hands.

In case you missed the memo.....my premise is to get rid of both of them.

 

[Raskolnikov]

I agree with that, if Stan went off the page to select him, he should be in the lineup next season. If not, what a waste of a pick.

While Kane/Toews/Keith rot.

It has to be all one way or the other. If they are rotting why are you not trading them?

Stan trying to tank harder at the deadline I guess.

 

[Granada]

Physicallity will only take you far. In the end, you have to be able to play NHL hockey. You mentioned John Scott....did you know that over an 8 year career he averaged only 35 games a year. Zadorov is heading in that direction. Watch when Zadorov hits the ice....Hawks are usually under siege when he does. I hate when his turn coincides with Kaner's line. They spend his whole shift trying to clear the defensive zone. Can he hit, yes he can....does he stick up for teammates....sometimes. Can he handle the puck, no. Can he skate...I'm laughing. Can he pass the puck.....well, he does a nice job of putting the puck on the other team's sticks... Can he join the rush.....I'm upchucking. He doesn't even shoot the puck that well. You can toss his laziness and perchant for dumb penalties into the mix as well. If that's what $3.2 mill gets you these days, I'm fairly certain you can get results like that from nearly any AHLer.

You act like 3.2 million is 7 or 8 million. It isn't -- he really isn't that overpaid for what he is; there are far worse players out there who are. Of course, we'd all like a rock-solid d-man who can do all the things you just mentioned, at an even cheaper price, who's indeed available, but this isn't a video game.

 

[KBIB]

The thing with Zadorov, is that at 3.2, he's actually a bargain at what he brings.

A couple years ago, this guy was a human highlight reel leveling players in open ice. That, after what the Hawks media was saying after the trade, was what I was expecting.

What we got was another one of JC's tinkering projects with the "well, you scare the living shit out of forwards in the neutral zone to the point a legend like Patrick Kane said he was happy he wasn't playing against you any more, but we're gonna change your game because I'm the head coach" approaches similar to what they did to Bustvist.

Bustvist was touted as a fourth forward type who needed the puck on his stick and the permission to open up the ice causing a miss match. They turned him into the proper defenseman which he isn't.

This all comes down to coaching. JC isn't a NHL head coach unless he's manning a bunch of Kampfs who don't belong in the NHL. He was taking all the credit when the Hawks went on their run surrounded by team players like Janmark and soda who brought stability to the line up with experience. Now that they're gone, you see a shit system and a bunch of kids who can't play it and cup winners who shouldn't have to.

They need a new head coach.