Trade Deadline/Future Line discussion

Martini

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Getting real for a second here, the pussification of the 'hawks predates JC's arrival.

2016: Kane gets run, Panarin comes to his aid, Panarin never does it again.
2018: Malkin runs Crawford. No retaliation whatsoever. No one taking potshots at him or Crosby, no running of their goalie. Not a single player who wasn't contributing that year (Read: every skater not named Kempny or Kane--and even they are debatable) decides to stand up for the guy holding them at the playoff line.
Early 2019 (I believe--timeframe is hazy, possibly right before Q's fired or right after JC's brought on): Keith gets ran. Debrincat, of all people, steps up. Didn't see that from him again all year.
2019: Evander Kane runs Crawford and puts him out for the 2nd time in as many seasons--again, no retaliation whatsoever. No one who wasn't contributing did anything--and none of the players that were even attempted to get even on the scoresheet.

The fact of the matter remains that the pack mentality and snarl has been gone from the 'hawks for a good long while. It might not be JC driving it even though he could reverse it. Just speculation on my part, but I think it's Bowman the Beancounter driving the pussification of the 'hawks.

That being said, while I'm okay with JXC being gone and would advocate it, I don't think anyone coach changes that until they get rid of their resident Legume Reckoner.
I agree with all this so.....

Having Ben Eagers on the team did more for the top guys then having a bunch of euros who are good skaters. I couldn't agree more with that.

Stan wants the Hawks to be his created version of Disney on ice. It doesn't work. Never has.

Didn't the Oilers try this when they were winning first overall picks? Then Chia came in and brought in too many plugs?

A couple guys on the roster who can keep a team honest don't hurt. Seabrook was one of those guys. People besides Dion didn't want to fight him. Burish,Eager, guys who could play a shift and we're loose cannons if idiots started running players.

Kampf got pie faced a couple games ago and did nothing. I lost all respect for him for not dropping the gloves.
 

Raskolnikov

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Getting real for a second here, the pussification of the 'hawks predates JC's arrival.

2016: Kane gets run, Panarin comes to his aid, Panarin never does it again.
2018: Malkin runs Crawford. No retaliation whatsoever. No one taking potshots at him or Crosby, no running of their goalie. Not a single player who wasn't contributing that year (Read: every skater not named Kempny or Kane--and even they are debatable) decides to stand up for the guy holding them at the playoff line.
Early 2019 (I believe--timeframe is hazy, possibly right before Q's fired or right after JC's brought on): Keith gets ran. Debrincat, of all people, steps up. Didn't see that from him again all year.
2019: Evander Kane runs Crawford and puts him out for the 2nd time in as many seasons--again, no retaliation whatsoever. No one who wasn't contributing did anything--and none of the players that were even attempted to get even on the scoresheet.

The fact of the matter remains that the pack mentality and snarl has been gone from the 'hawks for a good long while. It might not be JC driving it even though he could reverse it. Just speculation on my part, but I think it's Bowman the Beancounter driving the pussification of the 'hawks.

That being said, while I'm okay with JXC being gone and would advocate it, I don't think anyone coach changes that until they get rid of their resident Legume Reckoner.
Don't forget the year Toews got pissed off the Hawks didn't have an enforcer, trained MMA all off-season, then tried to fight everyone who dared to as much as glance in his direction for the first 10 games until management took him aside and said..."nah Jonathan, just let us be pussies, thats not your job."
 

LordKOTL

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I agree with all this so.....

Having Ben Eagers on the team did more for the top guys then having a bunch of euros who are good skaters. I couldn't agree more with that.

Stan wants the Hawks to be his created version of Disney on ice. It doesn't work. Never has.

Didn't the Oilers try this when they were winning first overall picks? Then Chia came in and brought in too many plugs?

A couple guys on the roster who can keep a team honest don't hurt. Seabrook was one of those guys. People besides Dion didn't want to fight him. Burish,Eager, guys who could play a shift and we're loose cannons if idiots started running players.

Kampf got pie faced a couple games ago and did nothing. I lost all respect for him for not dropping the gloves.
See below:
Don't forget the year Toews got pissed off the Hawks didn't have an enforcer, trained MMA all off-season, then tried to fight everyone who dared to as much as glance in his direction for the first 10 games until management took him aside and said..."nah Jonathan, just let us be pussies, thats not your job."
The key though is balance through a lineup, and it doesn't have to be exclusively pugilistic (although it's satisfying). The core component is pack mentality: you fuck with our guy we'll fuck with you and your guys. If a player can't do it with their fists, they can ante up in other ways. If a player is a bad fighter but a good hitter, why not start running the other team's star players? If the player has a cannon for a shot, start headhunting the opposing goalie. If you're the type of player who can score at will, then start running up the score if you can.

The team doesn't need to be nothing but goons who can fight and not play, there needs to be balance along the lineup. The skaters skate, the checkers check, the shooter shoot, the danglers dangle, the crashers crash and the bangers bang, but in a perfect world if a plyer is ran, the team should come behind them in solidarity to make the opposition pay on the scoresheet, physically, or ideally both. They shouldn't just lose all momentum or play like it's 19 individual players--that's been a problem with the 'hawks for a long time now.
 

MassHavoc

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I agree with all this so.....

Having Ben Eagers on the team did more for the top guys then having a bunch of euros who are good skaters. I couldn't agree more with that.

Stan wants the Hawks to be his created version of Disney on ice. It doesn't work. Never has.

Didn't the Oilers try this when they were winning first overall picks? Then Chia came in and brought in too many plugs?

A couple guys on the roster who can keep a team honest don't hurt. Seabrook was one of those guys. People besides Dion didn't want to fight him. Burish,Eager, guys who could play a shift and we're loose cannons if idiots started running players.

Kampf got pie faced a couple games ago and did nothing. I lost all respect for him for not dropping the gloves.
Yes, Ben Eager getting punched into concussions really did a lot for the team. You need a physical player who hits big, not a guy known for fighting who can't fight. But yes, they have gone to a game with no physicality for a very long time now.
 

Raskolnikov

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Yes, Ben Eager getting punched into concussions really did a lot for the team. You need a physical player who hits big, not a guy known for fighting who can't fight. But yes, they have gone to a game with no physicality for a very long time now.
I agree with you guys but at a certain point when every team you face is more physical than you, the Hawks decided it wasn't in their interest to engage.

We have been targets for far too long. The Oilers was a dream match-up. The Canucks don't want none either. There are more and more teams like that or young teams, but the Hawks took it too far...

U mean fuck...in 2015 the way Anaheim went after Keith never should have been allowed.

But even before we gave up trying it was just one or two guys on the roster.
 

Bust

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wasting oxygen on 1 million cap hit depth players? The nhl is all about the salary cap and in the blackhawks case they have a huge 10.5 million elephant in the room that is sick and frail. Toe's needs to do the right thing and retire. Don't attempt a comeback. Did you see Toe's in that Patrick Kane 1,000 clip? He looked like he's aged 10 years.
 

HSBOB

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SB is gonna corner the market on #6-7 D-men.

Why not take the remaining eight games and a little time against opposing top lines to assess this guy further.....why now? And why more than a one or two year,cheap qualifying offer......he's not even Arb eligible........what's he gonna do ....hold out?
 

RacerX

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wasting oxygen on 1 million cap hit depth players? The nhl is all about the salary cap and in the blackhawks case they have a huge 10.5 million elephant in the room that is sick and frail. Toe's needs to do the right thing and retire. Don't attempt a comeback. Did you see Toe's in that Patrick Kane 1,000 clip? He looked like he's aged 10 years.

Toews' condition has nothing to do with my question which was why sign Stillman - what has he done to earn any contract at any price?

And I don't blame Toews or #7 for killing our cap, they lead us fans through the greatest run of our hockey lifetimes and then Stan the Lesser sacrificed the ensuing decade by issuing ridiculous contracts that we knew at the time would come back to haunt us.

For me the timeline to return to seriously competitive play has always been around 2023-2024, if we get there any sooner (which I doubt) that would be a bonus.
 

Diehardfan

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If rumors are true, it's because the Hawks have had it with Zadorov and want a poor-man's version next season. Poor man's versions are Stan's speciality, like always.
Any player that is a poor man's version of a slow and rather dumb player like Zadorov has to be really bad. Really haven't seen enough of Stillman to know how good or bad he is....but I'm willing to roll the dice that he's an upgrade to #16. I will admit that the timing of this is odd but that pretty much goes with the territory with Bowman.
 

RacerX

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IDK, apparently I don't hate Zadorov nearly as much as everyone else.

Then again, doesn't really matter, there will be no Cup in the next couple years whether Zad is on the roster or not.

The only way this team returns to a high level of competitiveness in the next couple years is if they get ridiculously lucky in the draft. Swapping out trash for trash does not move the needle.
 

Granada

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IDK, apparently I don't hate Zadorov nearly as much as everyone else.

Then again, doesn't really matter, there will be no Cup in the next couple years whether Zad is on the roster or not.

The only way this team returns to a high level of competitiveness in the next couple years is if they get ridiculously lucky in the draft. Swapping out trash for trash does not move the needle.

Zadorov has been especially terrible as of late, but I tend to agree. I think overall, he hasn't been that bad. Now, does he deserve to be re-upped? That's the more complicated question. The only way I'd entertain re-upping him is if he'd do so for a similar price tag, but I doubt he'd go for that.
 

greg23

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Zadorov sucks.....

leaves us with the following d for next year:

keith
stillman
murphy
dehaan (exposed to expansion/traded)
zadorov (exposed to expansion/no resigned)
boqvist
kalynuk
mitchell
beaudin

i think the top 5 are likely on the roster with the bottom 2 questionable based on what happens in FA....ideally we sign a top 4 D in FA and bump everyone down a slot
 

Granada

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Zadorov sucks.....

leaves us with the following d for next year:

keith
stillman
murphy
dehaan (exposed to expansion/traded)
zadorov (exposed to expansion/no resigned)
boqvist
kalynuk
mitchell
beaudin

i think the top 5 are likely on the roster with the bottom 2 questionable based on what happens in FA....ideally we sign a top 4 D in FA and bump everyone down a slot

If you're expecting someone exponentially better than what we have now, I wouldn't hold my breath for a couple reasons: first, because this clearly a rebuild now; and second, because it's Bowman. Any true, top-4 D-man is going to want long term and 5-6 million plus; and they're not going to want to come to a team like Chicago right now. True top-4 D-man are arguably the hottest commodity in the NHL next to centers.
 

Martini

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Yeah they're either enticing the Kraken at that contract or they're not resigning Zadorov unless it's at their price.

Zadorov already had his peak a couple years ago. He's best served as a 7th defenseman who breaks guys once in awhile. He isn't a top four guy and just another Stan blunder which is funny, because Av's fans on reddit pretty much said the same thing when the trade was made.

I mean, his numbers really aren't bad, but his play has been horrible these last couple weeks. It's either conditioning or complete boneheadedness or a mixture of both.
 

LordKOTL

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If you're expecting someone exponentially better than what we have now, I wouldn't hold my breath for a couple reasons: first, because this clearly a rebuild now; and second, because it's Bowman. Any true, top-4 D-man is going to want long term and 5-6 million plus; and they're not going to want to come to a team like Chicago right now. True top-4 D-man are arguably the hottest commodity in the NHL next to centers.
Yep. See also: Brian Campbell the 1st go-around.
 

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