Trade Deadline/Future Line discussion

LordKOTL

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That's the million dollar question right there, HIM -- I wish I knew. There was a stretch were the forecheck was stellar and the Hawks were winning the majority of puck battles, but now they're not. I tend to blame the players more than the coaches; yeah, the coaches deserve some blame, but it's not like they're being coached to lose puck battles, etc. I just think it's an effort thing, and/or the competition is stronger now that it's getting later in the year -- and the Hawks can't reach that next level other teams have in this stretch of the year, due to being such a young team and/or size-deficient team up front. Or it's conditioning like I mentioned before. You can say that the coaching staff hasn't gotten them prepared enough for games, which could very well be true, but it's impossible to say that definitively since we're not in the locker room. I can only go by what I see on the ice.
I agree, but at some point isn't it the coach's job to hold the players accountable? I don't think any coach pushes losing puck battles, but if the players are losing puck battles the coach should be pushing them to win more puck battles--especially the players with the size to have a good shot at winning them.
 

RacerX

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Fair enough about the coaching staff, I am basing my thoughts on the last 12 games. Last night versus Dallas was a decent game, nearly blew it, but came away with the win.
JC seems like a decent person, I obviously dont know the man, but my thoughts, negative ones I throw in his direction are based on his abilities. His in game stategies never change, a good coach can change strategies based on the game at hand. When the Hawks seem lost or getting pummeled by there opponent he just never seems to change gears, or come up with a different formula. Nashville has been beating the crap out of the Hawks all year with there stingy defence, in the last series, he kept trying the same old, know dump and chase, know specific play to set them back on there heels, nothing. That’s what gets me about JC.
This is otherwise referred to as the "Lovie Smith" syndrome. I mean, Steve Smith is STILL open on the slant.

When a HC only knows one system, it's all he's ever going to deliver.
 

Bigbarn27

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I agree, but at some point isn't it the coach's job to hold the players accountable? I don't think any coach pushes losing puck battles, but if the players are losing puck battles the coach should be pushing them to win more puck battles--especially the players with the size to have a good shot at winning them.
Bingo there has been no accountability since JC got here. So he is just here to play nice for another 2 years. Again im old school not winning battles not getting ice time.
 

hawkinmontreal

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Bingo there has been no accountability since JC got here. So he is just here to play nice for another 2 years. Again im old school not winning battles not getting ice time.
That’s just it Bigbarn, laziness should result in lack of ice time, that is not an old school mentality. The kids need to know to fight every shift and give it all when they have the ice time, if they can’t, put them on the taxi squad and bring up another kid who is willing to fight and go that extra mile. Nothing is a given for anyone, and the coach needs to make that clear.
 

LordKOTL

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Bingo there has been no accountability since JC got here. So he is just here to play nice for another 2 years. Again im old school not winning battles not getting ice time.
To be 100% fair here...even Q failed to hold players accountable at times, especially in 2017/2018.
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In actual trade news: Carlsson and Wallmark out, Connely, Stillman, Rights to Borgstrom, and a 7th in from FLA.
 

LordKOTL

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To be fair, Q also knew his end was coming and had pretty much mailed it in.
I can see that logic, but I think if the 'hawks had a better 2018 and got more guys on board early on when Crawford was carrying them I don't see them canning him.

Devil's advocate question though: if Q's days were really numbered as-bad as they were, why wasn't he canned after 2018? I mean I make no bones about the fact both he and Stan should have been given their walkin' papers after that Mongolian clusterfuck of a season, but I don't see Stan's logic in keeping him on after 2018 if he wanted him gone that badly.
 

Tater

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To be 100% fair here...even Q failed to hold players accountable at times, especially in 2017/2018.
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In actual trade news: Carlsson and Wallmark out, Connely, Stillman, Rights to Borgstrom, and a 7th in from FLA.
How do the rights to Borgstrom work. The Hawks have to sign him, but could they have talked to him already in advance about a deal? Or are they just hoping he will get on board?
 

HSBOB

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I can see that logic, but I think if the 'hawks had a better 2018 and got more guys on board early on when Crawford was carrying them I don't see them canning him.

Devil's advocate question though: if Q's days were really numbered as-bad as they were, why wasn't he canned after 2018? I mean I make no bones about the fact both he and Stan should have been given their walkin' papers after that Mongolian clusterfuck of a season, but I don't see Stan's logic in keeping him on after 2018 if he wanted him gone that badly.
Do you still think Q coulda got guys on board with Forsberg,Berube and Glass in net?
Q was fired 15 games in after a .500 start mostly w/o Crawford the following year......that sounds pretty bad to me.
 

LordKOTL

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How do the rights to Borgstrom work. The Hawks have to sign him, but could they have talked to him already in advance about a deal? Or are they just hoping he will get on board?
I think the latter, but I'm not sure. I don't see him on CF but I think he's
Do you still think Q coulda got guys on board with Forsberg,Berube and Glass in net?
Q was fired 15 games in after a .500 start mostly w/o Crawford the following year......that sounds pretty bad to me.
We know each other's stances about the 2018 season. My question was not about "What could Q have done?" but more "Why didn't Stan can him at the end of 2018 when he had the perfect reason to then? Why did he wait when it would have made more sense to bring in his lackey during the summer and give the team a training camp with him?"

Granted, Stan should have been gone a long time ago...but I digress.
 

Bigbarn27

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I think the latter, but I'm not sure. I don't see him on CF but I think he's

We know each other's stances about the 2018 season. My question was not about "What could Q have done?" but more "Why didn't Stan can him at the end of 2018 when he had the perfect reason to then? Why did he wait when it would have made more sense to bring in his lackey during the summer and give the team a training camp with him?"

Granted, Stan should have been gone a long time ago...but I digress.
because there were tickets to sell. Not alot of ticket buyers for a 38yr coach with no NHL experience.
 

hawkinmontreal

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I think the latter, but I'm not sure. I don't see him on CF but I think he's

We know each other's stances about the 2018 season. My question was not about "What could Q have done?" but more "Why didn't Stan can him at the end of 2018 when he had the perfect reason to then? Why did he wait when it would have made more sense to bring in his lackey during the summer and give the team a training camp with him?"

Granted, Stan should have been gone a long time ago...but I digress.
I look at it this way Lord, as to why Q was fired, it had to do with the state of the team. Firing Q, although not brought to the attention of fans and the players marked the beginning of the new regime of the Hawks. Firing him at the end of the season most likely would of pissed the vets off going into training camp the following season, so he took the cowardly way and canned him during the season. To this day there have been plenty of rumours in regards to Stan and Q not being on the same page for quit some time, I have heard plenty of podcasts that the hatred ran deeper than that. He had frequent arguments with Stan and Scotty about players and direction of the team, however the Hawks team was so stacked, the winning provided a smokescreen for what was happening behind closed doors. Stan did not like to be undermined by his coach, and has taken a boatload of credit for the Hawks championships, where he has not publicly said on record, pretty much believed with the Hawks talent it didnt matter who was coaching the team. That brought in JC, he now sits in the corner, shuts his mouth and does what Stan tells him to do.
 
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DaHawkz24

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Janmark being held out of the lineup as an 'organization decision' could be on the move for picks/prospects?
 

Bigbarn27

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Ok so 2 trades that needed cap help and Stan didn't get either. Stan needs a big day tomorrow as of right now its an F.
Also dont think he will get more than a 3rd for Jan. Boston and Edmonton should be adding and need help and wherever Hall is going will need help thats 3 Stan needs to be involved in at least one.
 

LordKOTL

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I look at it this way Lord, as to why Q was fired, it had to do with the state of the team. Firing Q, although not brought to the attention of fans and the players marked the beginning of the new regime of the Hawks. Firing him at the end of the season most likely would of pissed the vets off going into training camp the following season, so he took the cowardly way and canned him during the season. To this day there have been plenty of rumours in regards to Stan and Q not being on the same page for quit some time, I have heard plenty of podcasts that the hatred ran deeper than that. He had frequent arguments with Stan and Scotty about players and direction of the team, however the Hawks team was so stacked, the winning provided a smokescreen for what was happening behind closed doors. Stan did not like to be undermined by his coach, and has taken a boatload of credit for the Hawks championships, where he has not publicly said on record, pretty much believed with the Hawks talent it didnt matter who was coaching the team. That brought in JC, he now sits in the corner, shuts his mouth and does what Stan tells him to do.
I don't necessarily disagree, but with the way the vets played throughout the entire 2017/2018 season, I don't really think the brass should have cared whether or not they were pissed off.

I completely get *why* he was fired, I question the *when*. Given everything you say about Bowman the Beancounter (and I don't dispute it), I still find it very odd that he didn't can Q in the offseason. After all, if Stan believed that the talent of the core was good enough to win with anyone at the helm and wanted Q gone, Why couldn't Stan spin it that the core had the talent but Q failed in 2018 (emphasis on Stan and his thought process, not my personal feelings)?

Again, spitballing here.
 

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