Trade Mack!


Pegger

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Im not going to explain to you how getting rid of a premier pass rusher to give Ryan Pace additional picks is a bad idea. Very dumb.
Okay, what if those picks are to help the next GM kick start the rebuild?

Let's remove Pace from the discussion for a second. If it was someone else and Pace got fired because the team was that bad would you want the next GM to have Mack or more draft pick ammo?
 

pablovi

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Im not going to explain to you how getting rid of a premier pass rusher to give Ryan Pace additional picks is a bad idea. Very dumb.
That’s only because of Ryan Pace, he doesn’t have to be the GM. Mack is going to be here the entire season and they will win 6 games at best. So, what’s the point of having him, when you can improve the team by trading him?
 

pablovi

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Okay, what if those picks are to help the next GM kick start the rebuild?

Let's remove Pace from the discussion for a second. If it was someone else and Pace got fired because the team was that bad would you want the next GM to have Mack or more draft pick ammo?
Exactly! When you go into rebuild mode, that this team really need, you’ll need to trade the most valuable player, the one that will give you the most picks.
 

knoxville7

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You won’t get anything from Cohen,
Cohen seems like an ideal back for NE...he would thrive with them I’m sure. Thing is, NE would rip off pace in any trade. Probably end up giving him away for a 7th rounder and watching him light it up for the pats at a 2nd round value
 

DanTown

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Bruce Smith was a big dude. When he was drafted he was 6'4, 280. Kind of like Reggie White and Julius Peppers when their speed sort of left them they were still able to out power tackles.

Kalil Mack was 6'3, 251 at the draft. No doubt he got stronger since joining the NFL, but he's just not built like the larger DEs that were still very effective past 30.

He could be effective later in his career, but I just haven't seen it. I'm expecting another 1-3 seasons after this of dominant play, then he'll tail off. Barring injury he can play until 35, but I'm not confident he'd be dominant and probably not worth a contract that's paying him for past accomplishments.
Yes you have - Terrell Suggs is still going strong with a similar build and size to Mack and he's 37 and torn an achilles. Robert Mathis had 19.5 sacks, led the league at the age of 32. DeMarcus Ware was 10 sacks age 32 for a full season, 7.5 sacks in 10 games the next year. James Harrison (much smaller) had all his good years age 29-34.

Pass rushers succeed a variety of ways; yes Mack is physically dominant but the guy is a tactician as well if you watch him so I like his ability to maintain value into the twilight of his peak/career. The obvious unknown with guys like Mack is injuries quickly can change the conversation.
 

DanTown

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Do the Bears really need to find someone to replace Mack or find pass rushers on both ends while saving a ton of money for free agents and gaining a draft pick?
They need a pass rush, yes. And trading Mack for a single first round pick only saves you money to go spend most of it to replace what Mack was giving you. Which carries the risk of the unknown in both the draft pick and FA in signing said players.

Not sure how you think that's a solution.
 

jsu34

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Our team has gone over 300 yds total offense once this year and had just 9 total yards in the first half, but the Mack trade is the problem?
 

Tostada

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Everytime I peak at CCS to check the latest "insights", i realize we're just a Planck away from being comatose stupid.
 

Bearly

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Interesting idea... a few days after the trade deadline and no idea who would be in the market or which pick.
 

Hammer

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IMO, spending two 1st round picks in a trade for any player outside QB position (franchise caliber type) is extremely dumb idea.

Now, Mack is truly elite player, plus, pass rusher, shutdown corner and LT are, sans QB, three most important positions (on which I would possibly spend ONE 1st rounder in a trade), but again, two 1st rounders were too much.


Now, hypothetical question, if you could trade Mack in the Offseason for a Top 5 pick in 2020 Draft, and a shot to get real franchise QB talent (Tua / Herbert), would you do it?
 

s0Lstar18

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Mack has 6.5 sacks and 4 forced fumbles. He’s on pace for 13 sacks and 7 forced fumbles and is leading a top 5 defense. This thread is so stupid. How do I block the OP from showing up in my future feeds?
Use your Psycho Crusher
 

Calabis

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Because double digit sacks, if he even gets to that, means nothing for the team if you don’t win. The goal is to make the whole team better, and win games. How are we supposed to replace half the Oline, the QB, both TE’s, with the few picks we have?
Tell me how in the draft, since you have proof that our GM hits gems constantly. U argument has no substance.
 

Pegger

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Yes you have - Terrell Suggs is still going strong with a similar build and size to Mack and he's 37 and torn an achilles. Robert Mathis had 19.5 sacks, led the league at the age of 32. DeMarcus Ware was 10 sacks age 32 for a full season, 7.5 sacks in 10 games the next year. James Harrison (much smaller) had all his good years age 29-34.

Pass rushers succeed a variety of ways; yes Mack is physically dominant but the guy is a tactician as well if you watch him so I like his ability to maintain value into the twilight of his peak/career. The obvious unknown with guys like Mack is injuries quickly can change the conversation.
Okay, let's pull that all back a bit. It's important to compare Mack to DEs. He started with the Raiders as a 4-3 DE, but has been largely been a OLB for the Bears. There's a real possibility that by firing or promotion he'll see a few other DCs in his day and the team could easily move back to a 4-3.

Anyway, here's my thoughts on who you mentioned:

Suggs - Drafted at 6'3, 265 lbs (bigger) and he's been a OLB, which allows smaller players to succeed, almost his entire career. Suggs is also an amazing bull rusher with a larger repertoire of moves. One item I'd add is that Suggs has never been in the Defensive MVP conversation. 7 probowls and one all pro is nothing to disregard, but I think it's fair to say Mack is more dominant now and has demanded a higher payday than Suggs has. I mention that because it's those all pro guys who when they take a slight step back are no longer worth keeping.

Mathis - Great example. Amazing undersized DE (6'2, 245 lbs) in that Dungy Tampa 2 scheme for most of his career. He did have 19.5 sacks at age 32, but from ages 31-35 he had 8 sacks, 19.5 sacks, 0 sacks (injured), 7 sacks then 5 sacks. The 19.5 number jumps out, but that that was by far his best 30+ season. Also important to note, he missed games in all of his last 3 seasons.

Ware - he was a little bigger (6'4, 258 lbs) and played OLB. I'd add, look at his sack production the last 4 years of his career (31-34). They were 6, 10, 7.5 and 4. That largely happened with favorable matchups because Von Miller was on the other side. It's also important to note he missed at least 5 games in his last two years.

Harrison - The smallest of the comparisons being drafted at 6'0 and 242 lbs. He was also played OLB his entire career, so not the same as a 4-3 DE. I'd add he's only had 10+ sacks 3 times in his career and from 34-39 he bounced around to 3 different teams with never having more than 6 sacks in any specific season. IMHO he was essentially done, but just being used as a situational pass rusher.

So, what's the constant themes for smaller edge rushers:
- Longer careers as an OLB
- Typically after 32 there isn't much left or they are not the difference makers they were only 1-2 years before.
- Injuries are more frequent

Let's tie this back to Mack. He's a smaller edge rusher (6'3, 253 lbs). It doesn't make sense to compare his career to Reggie White (6'5, 291 lbs), Bruce Smith (6'4, 280 lbs) or Julius Peppers (6'7, 295 lbs). You can go in a 3-4 for the remainder of his career, but that will limit DC candidates and it starts to make him a specialized rusher that's often not worth paying top edge rusher money. He'll be 29 at the start of next season and this off season might be the last chance to get significant compensation IF you were looking to trade.

*DISCLAIMER* I'm not in the 'trade Mack' camp, but just thinking this through as an option. If you come to the realization that you are very confident you can't win in the next 3 years, then it makes sense to start planning out and trying to have the best team 3 years form now.
 

Briggs is GOAT

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If the Bears can get 2 first rounders back for Mack it's the move to make. 2 first rounders and 2 second rounders could net you 2 good offensive linemen, a franchise QB, and a star TE.

^ That's much more valuable than Mack, even just a franchise QB and a couple good oline guys is much more valuable than Mack.
 

Anytime23

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Okay, what if those picks are to help the next GM kick start the rebuild?

Let's remove Pace from the discussion for a second. If it was someone else and Pace got fired because the team was that bad would you want the next GM to have Mack or more draft pick ammo?
I’d still rather have Mack. Dump him and you create another massive hole in your roster. Premier edge rushers are arguably the second hardest players to find. But most importantly, they make your overall defense better, just like QBs do for the offense.

There’s no reason to blow up this whole team when they’re a play caller, a QB, TE and a couple serviceable OL from competing again. People act like a team can’t compete with holes in their roster.
 

mbison

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You completely missed the point.


He had a rep since his rookie year to be great vs bad Olines. While being average vs good Olines. I will say this guy gets doubled and tripled while the others on the Dline don’t take advanced. This compounds the fact that 1 player doesn’t change anything. It takes a platoon. Use the extra cap and 3 picks in the top 40 to make a platoon that works.
So did you want to trade Brian Urlacher IN HIS PRIME when the bears had that long list of terrible QB play?
 

Pegger

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Just for shits and giggles, let's look at how the Mack trade stands:

Bears:
Khalil Mack - All pro in year one. Looks like he can do that again. Cap number of $11.9M, $26.6M, $26.6M, $27.2M, $25.5M, $23.3M the next 6 seasons.

Raiders:
Josh Jacobs - Been an excellent rookie RB. 750 yards, 4.9 ypc with 6 total TDs. Cap number of $2.2M, $2.7M, $3.3M and $3.8M for the next 4 years with a rookie 5th year option after that.
2019 6th rounder - no idea what happened to it. Was traded, but not sure for what and if it's even material.
2020 1st rounder - could be top 10 pick if things continue to go south.
2020 3rd rounder
 
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nc0gnet0

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Im not going to explain to you how getting rid of a premier pass rusher to give Ryan Pace additional picks is a bad idea. Very dumb.
Why trade him for picks, trade him for a decent Vet QB (and maybe a pick on top of that) . Trade him for Cam Newton or Tom Brady.
 



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