What is the fascination on this board with Mahomes?

[msadows]

Again this notion that qbs have no individual talent and because Mitch looks like garbage somehow any other qb that comes will look like garbage is ridiculous .

Even with the lack of receiver talent there were guys open and we had a chance to win more than 5 games with better qb play.
That you think Mitch will be better somewhere else says it all.

Yes, they have individual talent, but they are prospects.

Prospects need to develop. This isn't the nba, its as hard as any sports to transition from college to the pros. There is no minor league like in baseball to groom you along. You are stuck in the shit from day 1 a lot of times, and its sink or swim. More sink....than swim.

Like I said, or like greeny said, a lot of it is about situation. A lot of it is going to the right scheme that fits your talents. A lot of it is having the right coaches.

The bears seem to ALWAYS neglected all of those when they draft offensive talent.

 

[fx1718]

He has similarities, but I see 2 different schemes. I think a lot of it has to do with play calling and personal.

Yeah I think its mostly due to it working with a good QB and skill players in one place and it faltering in the other.

 

[msadows]

Yeah I think its mostly due to it working with a good QB and skill players in one place and it faltering in the other.

Thats what happens when you hire a guy who had 6 games of playcalling experience in his career and hand him the entire reigns to your offense.

 

[fx1718]

Thats what happens when you hire a guy who had 6 games of playcalling experience in his career and hand him the entire reigns to your offense.

Or when your QB just sucks and cant execute any of it...

 

[mecha]

how do you explain having a quarterback on the team that actually played in and won a Super Bowl and was MVP performing just as poorly?

 

[Alpha Male]

Tell us more of your opinions.

He thinks kevin white was can't pass up prospect.

 

[fx1718]

how do you explain having a quarterback on the team that actually played in and won a Super Bowl and was MVP performing just as poorly?

Because hes not actually good. He got on a hot streak and had an incredible run. He has sucked everywhere else.

 

[Starion]

Again this notion that qbs have no individual talent and because Mitch looks like garbage somehow any other qb that comes will look like garbage is ridiculous .

Even with the lack of receiver talent there were guys open and we had a chance to win more than 5 games with better qb play.
That you think Mitch will be better somewhere else says it all.

Let me roll this out for you - adding cause/effect words into my post:


I simply referred to the likelihood of hitting/missing AND the obvious fact that CHI sucks at developing QBs. Two issues, neither support Bears spending a shit ton to draft a QB high. For Mitch they were already at #3. Now I do worry.

Do you disagree there's more misses than hits - even in first Rd? (Hint: it's a numerical fact)
We also agree CHI doesn't surround their QBs with ingredients like WRs to flourish. KC does/did.

Clearly TONS of the fail was on Mitch. Are we copacetic now?

 

[mecha]

Because hes not actually good. He got on a hot streak and had an incredible run. He has sucked everywhere else.

oh right, thanks for the reminder.

 

[sevvy]

Again this notion that qbs have no individual talent and because Mitch looks like garbage somehow any other qb that comes will look like garbage is ridiculous .

It's most likely that we drafted the QB with the least amount of talent, and we don't know how to develop a QB.

Players are not complete products coming out of college. Think of all the dudes that get drafted that are raw players, but are considered freak athletes. They get drafted because organizations think that if the dude can learn to become a disciplined, smart player, that he'll be a fucking perennial all-pro when you combine that with his freak athleticism.

The only difference with QBs, is that they play arguably the hardest position in football, and the most important one. Lots of pundits thought Trubisky had the highest ceiling, but he was also the least experienced. The smart move was to take Deshaun Watson, but Pace gambled. Then he handed Trubisky over to John Fox and Dowell Loggains, then Matt Nagy.

He would have been better elsewhere. He likely is what he is now. I don't think he'd be as good as Mahomes or Watson, but he'd be better. That's my big issue with the Bears and QBs. We don't have the coaching talent to turn a prospect into a hall of famer. We never have. We've never had a bad ass QB, and we've never had a great offensive coach. Huh. I wonder if those two things are related.

I wish it wasn't the Bears. I wish it was just a QB crapshoot, because eventually we'd get lucky. But it takes skill to turn any college QB into a stud. RIP Bears fans. Lol.

 

[mecha]

It's most likely that we drafted the QB with the least amount of talent, and we don't know how to develop a QB.

Players are not complete products coming out of college. Think of all the dudes that get drafted that are raw players, but are considered freak athletes. They get drafted because organizations think that if the dude can learn to become a disciplined, smart player, that he'll be a fucking perennial all-pro when you combine that with his freak athleticism.

The only difference with QBs, is that they play arguably the hardest position in football, and the most important one. Lots of pundits thought Trubisky had the highest ceiling, but he was also the least experienced. The smart move was to take Deshaun Watson, but Pace gambled. Then he handed Trubisky over to John Fox and Dowell Loggains, then Matt Nagy.

He would have been better elsewhere. He likely is what he is now. I don't think he'd be as good as Mahomes or Watson, but he'd be better. That's my big issue with the Bears and QBs. We don't have the coaching talent to turn a prospect into a hall of famer. We never have. We've never had a bad ass QB, and we've never had a great offensive coach. Huh. I wonder if those two things are related.

I wish it wasn't the Bears. I wish it was just a QB crapshoot, because eventually we'd get lucky. But it takes skill to turn any college QB into a stud. RIP Bears fans. Lol.

what are your thoughts on Mahomes' extension after winning 1 Super Bowl? for all of you crowning him as the best there ever will be, see what happens when the rest of the offense's contracts start coming up. he's already demonstrated some mortality this season. he won't connect on 90% of his passes when Hill and Kelce are gone. he's surrounded by elite talent everywhere.

also related...

 

[Toast88]

Let's be honest...what's more likely?

A) A 1st Rd QB busting or NOT being a star?
B) A 1st Rd QB actually becoming a star?


CCS suffers from hindsight syndrome and is justifiably butthurt from not hitting on a QB for decades.

We all knew Mahommes was high risk high reward. I still think he wouldn't be half the QB if Bears picked him up & he had Fox/Nagy and this scheme/OL/shit run blocking. Mitch will be better elsewhere too. Sad but likely true. Meh

The cynical prediction will be correct more times than not.

If anything, threads like this from four years ago show that fucking nobody knows anything about true QB draft value, save for the very few people who nail it, I suppose. (Even then, how much of that was simply luck? Who knows?)

There honestly wasn't much in Mahomes' college tape to indicate he'd be a superstar at the NFL level. He threw off his back foot a ton and made up for bad mechanics by just forcing the ball through via his arm strength, a la Cutler, something Mahomes still does. The difference is, it actually works for Mahomes, mechanics be damned.

There's nothing in his college tape to indicate this would work at the NFL level. Ditto with his decision-making and real-time reading of the defense. But yet, he kicks ass at all those things. What could we have possibly seen while looking at his college tape to indicate he'd be the way he currently is? Seriously---Can someone answer that? He did not showcase these things extensively at Texas Tech, and if someone says he did, I question whether they actually watched the tapes.


All that said, the Chiefs **DID** see something, clearly, because he was their #1 guy and they traded up to #10 to get him. And I can attest from living in Kansas City---The moment he was drafted, everyone here was convinced he was going to be a superstar and that he was going to re-write record books.

How? How did they know that? I'm honestly wondering, because I do think the topic is fascinating, even if many of my fellow Chicago fans are too hurt and biased to truly analyze it.

 

[fx1718]

oh right, thanks for the reminder.

You're welcome buddy.

 

[Toast88]

Not sure who mentioned it, but one of the ESPN personalities, I think greeny, said a lot of player development in sports has to do the situation and organization you are drafted into.

It's the classic nature vs. nurture debate, but towards football.

I do also think the bears will ruin every qb they touch until they prove otherwise to me. I didn't want watson in the top 10, then again, I didn't want any QB in the top 10, and watson was my favorite.

As far as QB's go, no one truly knows shit. It's looking like the QB everyone thought was the least accurate in the 2018 draft is ending up becoming the most accurate, a trait a qb rarely fixes in the pros.

The best QB ever is a 6th rounder. 23 Teams passed on arguably the most talented quarterback in the draft because they didn't like his delivery.

It's the hardest position in sports to get right. The majority of teams fail at it eventually, the difference is they keep trying. The bears never keep trying. Drafting 3 Quarterbacks in the first 3 rounds in the last 30 years is NOT a recipe to win at the most important spot at football. One each decade is NOT a recipe to figure it out.

There's always an excuse for not trying.

"We can't draft a quarterback high because we don't have the line to protect him."

"We can't draft a quarterback high because we don't have the receivers for him to throw to."

"We can't draft a quarterback high because we have other pressing needs."

"We can't draft a quarterback high because the team will ruin him anyway."


There will always be an excuse why not to take a chance high in the draft on a quarterback. The Bills whiffed big-time on EJ Manuel, yet that didn't stop them from trading up for Josh Allen, easily now a top 5 QB in the league.

They didn't stop swinging. People who want to be winners never stop swinging. Losers stop swinging. Which ones are the Bears? I think we all know.

 

[Toast88]

what are your thoughts on Mahomes' extension after winning 1 Super Bowl? for all of you crowning him as the best there ever will be, see what happens when the rest of the offense's contracts start coming up. he's already demonstrated some mortality this season. he won't connect on 90% of his passes when Hill and Kelce are gone. he's surrounded by elite talent everywhere.

also related...View attachment 9859

Keep doubting Mahomes.

The guy is the real deal. Just embrace it and appreciate what we're watching.

 

[Toast88]

He has similarities, but I see 2 different schemes. I think a lot of it has to do with play calling and personal.

All of it has to do with playcalling and personnel.

Nagy and Reid literally call the exact same plays. I watch it every Sunday here in KC.

The difference is that Reid knows when to call what and actually airs it out more often. Reid knows what he's got. He gets the ball in his playmakers' hands and lets them do the work much of the time. And when those players are out or he's using different personnel, he tailors the individual playcall to those players. He gets his players ready for what gametime is actually going to be like.

It's difficult to overstate how good a coach Andy Reid is. I believe they've not had a losing season since he got to KC. He immediately turned them into a playoff team even before he had high-end personnel, even the year when they had ZERO touchdowns by a wide receiver, even the year the Jamaal Charles tore his ACL against the Bears and they rattled off 10 straight to finish the season with Alex Smith and next to no weapons.

 

[mecha]

Keep doubting Mahomes.

The guy is the real deal. Just embrace it and appreciate what we're watching.

of the big 3 of the 2017 draft he lucked into the best team situation. that's all I'm saying.

so was that concussion thing not really a concussion at all and he'll be able to play?

 

[Bearly]

Good call!

This necro thing is fun...

I'd pile on here but even though I had Mahomes above Watson, I thought Mitch the safest pick.
Who knew he needed a brane transplant?

Also a note. That's not the same bearlythere as on the defunct Bears board.

 

[sevvy]

what are your thoughts on Mahomes' extension after winning 1 Super Bowl? for all of you crowning him as the best there ever will be, see what happens when the rest of the offense's contracts start coming up. he's already demonstrated some mortality this season. he won't connect on 90% of his passes when Hill and Kelce are gone. he's surrounded by elite talent everywhere.

also related...View attachment 9859

His job will be harder if he has less talent. But if he's got Andy Reid and they draft well, I doubt we'll really see too much of a dip in his play. If he's Rodgers good, you can line up whoever the hell at WR and TE, and they'll find success. I hate it. I want that to be the Bears at some point in my lifetime...

 

[Toast88]

of the big 3 of the 2017 draft he lucked into the best team situation. that's all I'm saying.

so was that concussion thing not really a concussion at all and he'll be able to play?

The Chiefs are being so dodgy with it, but it's my personal belief that he did get concussed. He was pretty quickly ruled out of the game, with 20 minutes of game clock left in a playoff game. I don't think that happens if he's O.K.

Also, he's in the concussion protocol over the coming days. I don't think they just do that for a neck strain. There's some obfuscation and gamesmanship happening, I think.

That said, I have no internal insight, but I'd be very surprised if he doesn't play this weekend.