What Is There Around Fields?

Mighty Joe Young

Living in Troll's Heads Rent-Free for Decades
Joined:
Feb 8, 2021
Posts:
5,664
Liked Posts:
4,910
Nah.

Whitehair is a better NFL lineman than Vildor is a NFL defensive back. Whitehair is not All Pro material, but he is serviceable. Vildor is a sixth round pick that won a job on a team with no depth at the position and still got benched.



I mean the OL was unspectacular as a whole, but I felt Whitehair held his own better than Daniels and Mustipher. That line has serious issues, but Whitehair ain't one.

Well other than being overpaid this season because Ryan Pace is a ****ing idiot.



I'm on board, but let's start with center and right guard. Those positions have been down right terrible.

Then you can cut Whitehair in 2023 if you think you can do better.
I just also want competition to push Whitehair
 

Pegger

President Stoopid
Joined:
Sep 18, 2012
Posts:
7,621
Liked Posts:
5,872
Location:
Communist Canada
Not sure but a 3 and an future 3 is not enough. An injured and less productive Von Miller got a 2 and a 3 in the same draft. 18.5 sacks and a 17 TFLs should at least be worth a couple of 2s.
giphy.gif


They have both played 11 seasons, are both similar age (Miller is just under a year older) and have injury histories.

If anything, over their careers, Von Miller has 6 less regular season games, but has 14.5 more sacks.

I get Quinn had 18.5 sacks, but Millers 9,5 isn't too shabby.

With how comparable they are you can bring in probowls and big games (SB MVP for Miller) he's just better, period.
 

Mighty Joe Young

Living in Troll's Heads Rent-Free for Decades
Joined:
Feb 8, 2021
Posts:
5,664
Liked Posts:
4,910
Look...offensive lines are great to have....but look around at the teams always left in the playoffs at this stage and beyond

1) elite qb play
2) weapons galore

This team better hope/develop fields and get him WEAPONS

Burrows oline sucks....how was his season and weapons? Elite

Mahomes is on his 3rd different line combo in 3 seasons....how were his last 3 years and weapons?

Point is.....and elite qb with weapons makes an average to below average oline palatable.

Fields needs at least 2 WR with speed (kirk in fa and high draft pick) and another tight end who can run/catch. As for the line I'd keep Daniels and either move him to c and sign a vet fa guard or keep him at guard and sign a vet c.....then you better be right with Borom/Jenkins at T

Dumb take. What does it matter what weapons you have if your QB doesn't have the time to throw to them? We just saw Mahomes look ordinary in the Super bowl last year because of a weak line.
 

Bearly

Dissed membered
Donator
Joined:
Aug 17, 2011
Posts:
34,958
Liked Posts:
18,244
Location:
Palatine, IL
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
giphy.gif


They have both played 11 seasons, are both similar age (Miller is just under a year older) and have injury histories.

If anything, over their careers, Von Miller has 6 less regular season games, but has 14.5 more sacks.

I get Quinn had 18.5 sacks, but Millers 9,5 isn't too shabby.

With how comparable they are you can bring in probowls and big games (SB MVP for Miller) he's just better, period.
So you'd trade him for 2, 3s? LOL.

When Miller was traded, he had 4.5 sacks in the previous 1.5 years, 8 sacks the year before that (2019), coming off ankle surgery that made him miss the previous year and had dinged that same ankle before getting traded. It was also the final year of Millers contract with Denver.

Yes, you do seem confused. I knew people would object to my take because it's the vaunted Von Miller but they gave up a 2 and a 3 for an 8 game rental of a dinged Miller. He was not extended and playing on the cheap for those same reasons. He's a FA at the end of this year. Miller has 8 sacks this year. Leonard Floyd had 9.5 in the same D and 10.5 last year.
 
Last edited:

Bust

Well-known member
Joined:
Jan 5, 2020
Posts:
5,899
Liked Posts:
3,098
The Sun-Times had a piece that was partially right but way wrong in some areas.

What They Got Right
Pace screwed up on the O-Line. No two ways about it, and fixing it is perhaps priority #1.
The only reliable pieced are Daniels at one guard spot, Whitehair at center, and Borom at a tackle spot.
Jenkins is hurt too often for me to count on. Mustiphar may or may not help.
This is why I move Quinn and 2022 and 2024 second-rounders to get two second-rounders and two third-rounders in my mock offseason. I want Zion Johnson for one guard spot and Daniel Faalele for another tackle spot.

Nagy's Dalton fixation meant Fields had little time to work with A-Rob and Graham, among others, and that lack of reps hurt when he was thrust into QB1 so early.

What They Got Wrong
Tight end is in good shape for another year or two if they extend Graham. In 2020, he had 50 receptions for 456 yards and 8 TDs with Trubisky/Foles. In 2021, Nagy cut his playing time, but his pace if he'd had comparabe targets to 2020 would have been 42 receptions, 501 yards, and 9 TDs. Combined with Kmet, that's a good tandem.

At running back the Montgomery/Herbert combo is extremely good, and should be counted on to take pressure off Fields.

Wide receiver, if the Bears can bring back A-Rob, there's a good one-two punch with him and Mooney. Damiere Byrd is a nice #3 (maybe worth a look for a bigger role, given his 68.4 catch percentage) and Jakeem Grant and Dazz Newsome look like they can help. If A-rob is not coming back, use free agency to get a receiver and add one through the draft.

I think a lot of the offensive players will improve with a full training camp of Fields as the QB1. But the O-Line needs some young talent desperately.

Well put I gave you a like! /highfive

You look at athletes and sports. For the most part they have up and down seasons. When teams have success is when multiple guys are having great years and staying healthy at the same time.

Look at Kimbrel of the Cubs this past season pitching for sellers. His ERA was all world, 0.58 with the Cubs. Yet he needed to have this standout season the year prior.

stead the cubs got this during the stretch run . . . and paved the way for Theo to retire . . . ugh

It's going to be the key to the bears success next. Every year is win now. Look at how quickly the Bulls fortunes turned. Getting blown out in back to back games a few games back. Zach Levine out with a knee. Lonzo Ball out for the season getting surgery.

. . . Win Now Boyz . . .


 
Last edited:

Black Rainbow

Guys on ignore still wanna talk to me.
Joined:
Apr 19, 2014
Posts:
13,725
Liked Posts:
8,438
  • Mustipher - He's currently in the NFL, so by definition he's 'NFL caliber'. You can say he's not good, but it's hard to say he shouldn't have a job in the NFL while also having him employed by an NFL team.
  • Daniels - I agree. Based on his career to this point he's definitely not going to be a priority FA for the next GM. I do however think he'll be a player someone else signs and he does better than expected (think Leno).
  • Whitehair - His cap number is $12.3M to keep and will cost $12.5M to cut, so he'll cost an extra ~$200K to cut AND you'll have to sign someone to play in his place. IMHO he's going no where especially since he has C/G versatility, there really isn't much depth along the OL and the new GM and coach will be in evaluation mode.
  • Jenkins - Already a guard? Interesting.
  • Borom - His story gives me some hope. It's not that he turned out great, but rather a complete unknown can pop up and give you some decent snaps. He's also got enough reps to know what he needs to work on in the offseason and he'll get a chance.
Stopped reading at "by definition Mustipher is NFL caliber..."
 

Chicago Staleys

Realist
Joined:
Sep 24, 2012
Posts:
10,558
Liked Posts:
6,850
The Sun-Times had a piece that was partially right but way wrong in some areas.

What They Got Right
Pace screwed up on the O-Line. No two ways about it, and fixing it is perhaps priority #1.
The only reliable pieced are Daniels at one guard spot, Whitehair at center, and Borom at a tackle spot.
Jenkins is hurt too often for me to count on. Mustiphar may or may not help.
This is why I move Quinn and 2022 and 2024 second-rounders to get two second-rounders and two third-rounders in my mock offseason. I want Zion Johnson for one guard spot and Daniel Faalele for another tackle spot.

Nagy's Dalton fixation meant Fields had little time to work with A-Rob and Graham, among others, and that lack of reps hurt when he was thrust into QB1 so early.

What They Got Wrong
Tight end is in good shape for another year or two if they extend Graham. In 2020, he had 50 receptions for 456 yards and 8 TDs with Trubisky/Foles. In 2021, Nagy cut his playing time, but his pace if he'd had comparabe targets to 2020 would have been 42 receptions, 501 yards, and 9 TDs. Combined with Kmet, that's a good tandem.

At running back the Montgomery/Herbert combo is extremely good, and should be counted on to take pressure off Fields.

Wide receiver, if the Bears can bring back A-Rob, there's a good one-two punch with him and Mooney. Damiere Byrd is a nice #3 (maybe worth a look for a bigger role, given his 68.4 catch percentage) and Jakeem Grant and Dazz Newsome look like they can help. If A-rob is not coming back, use free agency to get a receiver and add one through the draft.

I think a lot of the offensive players will improve with a full training camp of Fields as the QB1. But the O-Line needs some young talent desperately.
So many things wrong including the fact that Grant and Byrd are FA’s but you think they are aren’t.
 

greg23

Well-known member
Joined:
Sep 28, 2014
Posts:
6,613
Liked Posts:
3,632
Dumb take. What does it matter what weapons you have if your QB doesn't have the time to throw to them? We just saw Mahomes look ordinary in the Super bowl last year because of a weak line.

Except he was in the super bowl with a below average line that got worse with injuries....and id bet he'd rather miss 2 ol vas losing weapons like hill/kelce

Has Rodgers really had a top tier line?

Burrow was sacked over 50 times this year i believe....but has mixon/chase/boyd/Higgins/uzomah, would that team be much better with sewell at T or chase at WR? They clearly thought chase and sure looks like they won't regret it.

The chargers oline sucks....Herbert sure looks good and they have weapons

Dal oline has regressed from elite status.....think they set some sort of record for yards/points

Etc etc etc


If fields sucks it won't matter...but he needs weapons not guys like Byrd, Goodwin, Graham

I know the cap sucks but they need speed and playmakers on that side of the ball....kirk/chark or gamble on someone injured and augment that with a high draft pick who can be a playmaker
 

Mighty Joe Young

Living in Troll's Heads Rent-Free for Decades
Joined:
Feb 8, 2021
Posts:
5,664
Liked Posts:
4,910
Except he was in the super bowl with a below average line that got worse with injuries....and id bet he'd rather miss 2 ol vas losing weapons like hill/kelce

Has Rodgers really had a top tier line?

Burrow was sacked over 50 times this year i believe....but has mixon/chase/boyd/Higgins/uzomah, would that team be much better with sewell at T or chase at WR? They clearly thought chase and sure looks like they won't regret it.

The chargers oline sucks....Herbert sure looks good and they have weapons

Dal oline has regressed from elite status.....think they set some sort of record for yards/points

Etc etc etc


If fields sucks it won't matter...but he needs weapons not guys like Byrd, Goodwin, Graham

I know the cap sucks but they need speed and playmakers on that side of the ball....kirk/chark or gamble on someone injured and augment that with a high draft pick who can be a playmaker


How many Superbowls has Rodgers won again? Herbert - how's he doing in the playoffs this year? Dallas still making hay in the playoffs? I mean dude, you're making my point for me. Weapons don't mean shit if your O-line isn't solid or is banged up.

You want the SEXY position to make you feel good, but that isn't what is going to win you TITLES.

There is a reason why there is an old NFL axiom about when you start to build a team, you always start IN THE TRENCHES.

A great O-Line can make even an average QB better by giving him time to throw to all those weapons you want. A great D-line can generate a pass rush so fierce that even ordinary secondary players look better because the opposing QB is being forced to throw before they really want to.

If you want success, you ALWAYS start with the QB, and then the TRENCHES. Once you have that on lock, THEN you start adding the weapons to put you over the top....
 

greg23

Well-known member
Joined:
Sep 28, 2014
Posts:
6,613
Liked Posts:
3,632
How many Superbowls has Rodgers won again? Herbert - how's he doing in the playoffs this year? Dallas still making hay in the playoffs? I mean dude, you're making my point for me. Weapons don't mean shit if your O-line isn't solid or is banged up.

You want the SEXY position to make you feel good, but that isn't what is going to win you TITLES.

There is a reason why there is an old NFL axiom about when you start to build a team, you always start IN THE TRENCHES.

A great O-Line can make even an average QB better by giving him time to throw to all those weapons you want. A great D-line can generate a pass rush so fierce that even ordinary secondary players look better because the opposing QB is being forced to throw before they really want to.

If you want success, you ALWAYS start with the QB, and then the TRENCHES. Once you have that on lock, THEN you start adding the weapons to put you over the top....

Except in today's game it's constantly proven that if you have a the qb, your oline doesn't matter much.....but....that qb needs weapons.

You want a dominant line but first but fail to recognize that pace spent high picks on lineman; yet that group continues to suck....meanwhile he's trotting out guys like Jimmy Graham, Jakeem Grant, Josh Bellamy; etc etc etc.....those guys aren't getting it done for anyone.

Watch the 8 teams this weekend and try to find a team/spot where any bear skill player is better than what those teams are rolling out......here's a hint...not many (although Mooney might fit with the bucs depleted wr corp)
 

Mighty Joe Young

Living in Troll's Heads Rent-Free for Decades
Joined:
Feb 8, 2021
Posts:
5,664
Liked Posts:
4,910
Except in today's game it's constantly proven that if you have a the qb, your oline doesn't matter much.....but....that qb needs weapons.

You want a dominant line but first but fail to recognize that pace spent high picks on lineman; yet that group continues to suck....meanwhile he's trotting out guys like Jimmy Graham, Jakeem Grant, Josh Bellamy; etc etc etc.....those guys aren't getting it done for anyone.

Watch the 8 teams this weekend and try to find a team/spot where any bear skill player is better than what those teams are rolling out......here's a hint...not many (although Mooney might fit with the bucs depleted wr corp)

Proven how? I just gave you an example of Mahommes looking mortal behind a badly injured O-line in LAST YEAR'S SUPERBOWL. As in Last year. So how does LAST YEAR'S SUPERBOWL not relate to TODAY'S GAME.

Dude, you got a shit take and can't even defend it without ignoring the points that refute what you are saying...
 

stelz

Heavily Medicated
Joined:
Nov 25, 2021
Posts:
673
Liked Posts:
112
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
You need a modern passing offense to win the SB. The OL has to be built for this. Did the Bears ever pick up a blitz in ‘21? Did a Bears QB ever step up in the pocket in ‘21? The interior OL is a dumpster fire, none of them can pass block to save their lives. The tackles are question marks at best. It’s a mess.

The most glaring need on defense is CB, go BPA OL or CB with the second round pick. Identify an ascending free agent guard or center (or two) and invest in him. There needs to be someone behind Jenkins and Borum.

They must eliminate the false starts and holding penalties, find a coach to hold them accountable. Help the OL with your scheme and play calling. You’ve got excellent running backs, use them to work in play action. Learn to run screens and draws. Make teams pay when they blitz. Scheme an outlet receiver to be actually open. Take the top off the defense four or five times a game.

Take the dead cap hits this year. No more kicking the can down the road. The priority in ‘22 should be OL, protecting Fields, cleaning up the cap mess and having all your draft picks for ‘23.
 
Last edited:

PickSix

Well-known member
Joined:
Mar 9, 2015
Posts:
2,549
Liked Posts:
1,293
My take.
Off-season priority 1 is extend Roquan.
Free agency priority of CB, C and SWR in that order.
Draft. Rd 2 bad ass RG. Rd 3 S. Rd 5 DL and WR depth.

Staring OL
LT Jenkins
LG Whitehair
C Free Agent
RG Rd 2 Draft Pick
RT Ifedi

Borom is your swing tackle likely to get a lot of playing time.
Whitehair was ass last year, but Rome wasn’t built in a day and that contract locks him in another year.
 

Zvbxrpl

Well-known member
Joined:
Oct 3, 2014
Posts:
1,485
Liked Posts:
1,285
Take the dead cap hits this year. No more kicking the can down the road. The priority in ‘22 has to be OL and protecting Fields.
It’s utterly baffling how simple what you suggest is in terms of doing everything possible to put Fields in the best position to succeed by protecting him, but fans are fine with mediocrity because they’d rather try and win the secondary with receivers because a good offensive line to this fan base is one where you don’t notice them because you follow the ball/qb until it’s handed off or thrown.

Meanwhile they think the problem is receivers not getting separation, not the qb having under 2 seconds before a defender hits the qb.

It’s insanely easy to find talent at wr if the QB has a clean 3 second pocket and can extend with his legs/stepping up/sidestepping. You don’t need WR in the top rounds or with big bucks to get open in 5 seconds. And if he can’t? It’s either Matt Nagy calling all curls or the kid can’t hang in the NFL.

Until winning the trenches is a priority, this team will continually be the proverbial “defensive team” it has been for decades.
 

stelz

Heavily Medicated
Joined:
Nov 25, 2021
Posts:
673
Liked Posts:
112
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
It’s utterly baffling how simple what you suggest is in terms of doing everything possible to put Fields in the best position to succeed by protecting him, but fans are fine with mediocrity because they’d rather try and win the secondary with receivers because a good offensive line to this fan base is one where you don’t notice them because you follow the ball/qb until it’s handed off or thrown.

Meanwhile they think the problem is receivers not getting separation, not the qb having under 2 seconds before a defender hits the qb.

It’s insanely easy to find talent at wr if the QB has a clean 3 second pocket and can extend with his legs/stepping up/sidestepping. You don’t need WR in the top rounds or with big bucks to get open in 5 seconds. And if he can’t? It’s either Matt Nagy calling all curls or the kid can’t hang in the NFL.

Until winning the trenches is a priority, this team will continually be the proverbial “defensive team” it has been for decades.
100% agree. It’s hard to know what you have at QB, WR or TE if the protection, scheme and play calling are as bad as they’ve been under Pace and Nagy.
 

stelz

Heavily Medicated
Joined:
Nov 25, 2021
Posts:
673
Liked Posts:
112
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
They seem to know they have to build the defensive line and pass rushers, yet the OL is always an afterthought, held together with duct tape and bailing wire, that can’t block the opposition’s defensive line and pass rushers.
 

jazzmcfunk

Member
Joined:
Jan 18, 2021
Posts:
83
Liked Posts:
71
"What is there around Fields?"

That ^^^ has to be the single most misleading thread topic this month. Here I thought we were going to have a pleasant conversation about the lack of anything around Justin Fields, but nooooo... just a mock offseason with a Graham extension. You sir are a lunatic.
I was going to guess "fences". Sorry ... Dad joke.
 

Pegger

President Stoopid
Joined:
Sep 18, 2012
Posts:
7,621
Liked Posts:
5,872
Location:
Communist Canada
So you'd trade him for 2, 3s? LOL.

When Miller was traded, he had 4.5 sacks in the previous 1.5 years, 8 sacks the year before that (2019), coming off ankle surgery that made him miss the previous year and had dinged that same ankle before getting traded. It was also the final year of Millers contract with Denver.

Yes, you do seem confused. I knew people would object to my take because it's the vaunted Von Miller but they gave up a 2 and a 3 for an 8 game rental of a dinged Miller. He was not extended and playing on the cheap for those same reasons. He's a FA at the end of this year. Miller has 8 sacks this year. Leonard Floyd had 9.5 in the same D and 10.5 last year.

The Von Miller trade is a good reference point. The Broncos, being a rebuild team, didn't have a need for a 32 year old DE occupying a lot of cap space. They got picks and cap space to help them rebuild, which is really what they should be doing. Alternatively someone in 'win now' mode like the Rams values the current level of production over the future picks. That's where the trade happens.

Now let me ask, where are the Bears? Are they 1-2 pieces away or is it going to take a while? Is it better to pay a 32 year old player for the next 3 years occupy $17-18M in cap space each season or have some draft picks and that cap space to work with?

For everyone excited about Quinn's 18.5 sack season and starting to think how he'll pair up with Mack you have to remember that this past season was a statistical outlier. When he was a year younger in 2020 he had trouble staying healthy with a back and only had 2 sacks in 13 games. I'm not saying he's a 2 sack guy, but based on his historical production he'll probably have 5-10 sacks, which is fine. Is it worth ~$17M in cap space to what currently is a non-playoff team who's getting a new GM/HC? Maybe not.
 

Bearly

Dissed membered
Donator
Joined:
Aug 17, 2011
Posts:
34,958
Liked Posts:
18,244
Location:
Palatine, IL
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
The Von Miller trade is a good reference point. The Broncos, being a rebuild team, didn't have a need for a 32 year old DE occupying a lot of cap space. They got picks and cap space to help them rebuild, which is really what they should be doing. Alternatively someone in 'win now' mode like the Rams values the current level of production over the future picks. That's where the trade happens.

Now let me ask, where are the Bears? Are they 1-2 pieces away or is it going to take a while? Is it better to pay a 32 year old player for the next 3 years occupy $17-18M in cap space each season or have some draft picks and that cap space to work with?

For everyone excited about Quinn's 18.5 sack season and starting to think how he'll pair up with Mack you have to remember that this past season was a statistical outlier. When he was a year younger in 2020 he had trouble staying healthy with a back and only had 2 sacks in 13 games. I'm not saying he's a 2 sack guy, but based on his historical production he'll probably have 5-10 sacks, which is fine. Is it worth ~$17M in cap space to what currently is a non-playoff team who's getting a new GM/HC? Maybe not.
Doesn't matter where you're at. You don't rip yourself off by not getting close to value. Injured players are injured. It's part of the game. To suggest a healthy Quinn is only good for 5 sacks makes this convo mute. You're being disingenuous just to argue.
 

Pegger

President Stoopid
Joined:
Sep 18, 2012
Posts:
7,621
Liked Posts:
5,872
Location:
Communist Canada
Doesn't matter where you're at. You don't rip yourself off by not getting close to value. Injured players are injured. It's part of the game. To suggest a healthy Quinn is only good for 5 sacks makes this convo mute. You're being disingenuous just to argue.

I actually said he'd be good for 5-10 sacks, not just 5. Maybe you misread.

For his 11 season career here's how he's broken things down:

<5 sacks = 2 times
5-10 sacks = 4 times
>10 sacks = 5 times

Actually taking his total number of sacks, being 101 and dividing it by the number of games he's played, being 156, you get 0.647 sacks a game. If you assume he plays all 17 games that's 11 sacks, but he's only played a full season 3 times in his 11 year career, so I'm not assuming that happens at his age/injury history.

You don't think 5-10 sacks is realistic? If not, what do you expect from him? I fully appreciate that he had 18.5 sacks in 2021, but let's not forget in 2020 he had 2. Both of those numbers are outside his career averages, so logically he'd come back to his historic mean, which is 9.18 sacks a season (101 sacks/11 seasons).
 

Top