Who Stays, Who Goes?

Diehardfan

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If Kane wants out, all he's gotta do is ask, otherwise he's going nowhere.
For one more year after this one.....if he loves being here so much maybe he'll just retire at that point. He surely won't be getting another player contract in Chicago. If he wants to keep playing, you would think that would be a good selling point on moving to a contender.
 

Granada

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Well, here’s the problem;

Toews and Kane could get returns, one meh, one good, but I think the Hawks only have one retention slot available. I don’t think any Cup chasing team is going to want to dramatically change their dressing room by getting Toews unless they’re a leader away from winning the Cup. He should have been traded at the beginning of the year and nobody was going to want him at that time. We don’t know if he has being captain written into his contract or not. I could see Vegas wanting him easily, or the Av’s, but the cost of tram chemistry? I really don’t know.

Kane at half retention would get a huge return. We all know this but Kane controls his own destiny. The only team he would consider would be the Rangers outside of Buffalo, but why would they sell off one of their high end prospects for Kane? Hell, with the stunted development of Laff I would ask for him if I was the GM straight up. I just don’t think this GM we have has the balls to trade away either and is clipped by the owner who knows both of them still puts asses in seats.

Dach I’d listen on. He’s going to be a top end second line center. He’s not going to be a first line guy. There were a bunch of clowns on a different forum who said Dach was better then Hughes. Jack has eight points in his last three games and has broken out, Dach is just Dach. You look at Byram, Seider, and Zegras and you scratch your head why they took Dach over two first pairing guys and a first line player.

Kubi I’d really try and keep. I hate to compare players but his shot and release looks like Ovies. He needs a center who can feed him the puck and I wonder why he hasn’t played with Dach. You honestly could get a late first for the guy because he’s cheap.

Everyone else outside of Cat, can go. If somebody offers you the moon on Cat I’d think about it too. The only player I wouldn’t trade is Jones and that because his contract is so huge nobody would trade for it, but if you were a GM offering 50% retention on it a bevy of teams would be interested but your shitting on your cap for how many years.
It'll be interesting to see what Kubalik actually wants. He's making 3.7 million right now, his new contract will be his third NHL contract, the guy already gave the Hawks a bit of a break by signing just a two-year deal, and most importantly, the guy will be in his late-twenties this summer. In other words, it's safe to say he's going to want a substantial contract -- this contract will be his last chance to cash in, so he's going to want long-term and big dollars. To me, that's all the more reason to trade him. I mean, if the guy wants to sign a 3-year deal for 5 million per, maybe you consider it, but I can't imagine the guy will want anything less than 6-7 for 5-6 years, if not longer.

And also, I'm just not convinced that Kubalik is a guy you build a team around. He's a nice piece, sure, but I don't view him as a "core" guy. That's where this team needs to start.
 

BEARZOMBIE

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Well, here’s the problem;

Toews and Kane could get returns, one meh, one good, but I think the Hawks only have one retention slot available. I don’t think any Cup chasing team is going to want to dramatically change their dressing room by getting Toews unless they’re a leader away from winning the Cup. He should have been traded at the beginning of the year and nobody was going to want him at that time. We don’t know if he has being captain written into his contract or not. I could see Vegas wanting him easily, or the Av’s, but the cost of tram chemistry? I really don’t know.

Kane at half retention would get a huge return. We all know this but Kane controls his own destiny. The only team he would consider would be the Rangers outside of Buffalo, but why would they sell off one of their high end prospects for Kane? Hell, with the stunted development of Laff I would ask for him if I was the GM straight up. I just don’t think this GM we have has the balls to trade away either and is clipped by the owner who knows both of them still puts asses in seats.

Dach I’d listen on. He’s going to be a top end second line center. He’s not going to be a first line guy. There were a bunch of clowns on a different forum who said Dach was better then Hughes. Jack has eight points in his last three games and has broken out, Dach is just Dach. You look at Byram, Seider, and Zegras and you scratch your head why they took Dach over two first pairing guys and a first line player.

Kubi I’d really try and keep. I hate to compare players but his shot and release looks like Ovies. He needs a center who can feed him the puck and I wonder why he hasn’t played with Dach. You honestly could get a late first for the guy because he’s cheap.

Everyone else outside of Cat, can go. If somebody offers you the moon on Cat I’d think about it too. The only player I wouldn’t trade is Jones and that because his contract is so huge nobody would trade for it, but if you were a GM offering 50% retention on it a bevy of teams would be interested but your shitting on your cap for how many years.
The mb consensus was drafting byram. Of course bowman the lesser gets the wtf pick lol. But that’s the cost of keeping a failing gm right? It took hiding sexual offenders to get rid of him when it should have just been for franchise mismanagement
 

LordKOTL

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It's so weird usually I get really mad at Superstars for leaving their teams and things like that but I honestly would be okay if Kane was like fuck it I'm done. I'd still root for him almost anywhere he went.
Oh, definitely. It was the same with Keith.
For one more year after this one.....if he loves being here so much maybe he'll just retire at that point. He surely won't be getting another player contract in Chicago. If he wants to keep playing, you would think that would be a good selling point on moving to a contender.
Honestly, if Kane wants to stay beyond his current deal, I'd be okay with it as long as (a) his game doesn't completely crash between then and now, (b) his cap hit is commensurate with his on-ice play and projected on-ice play what with him being over 35 when a new deal might kick in, and (c) any deal is not long-term nor saddled with an ironclad NMC.

Right now this year he's just shy of a PPG player, and this is the best on the team. He might not be racking up the goals like El Gato, but he's right up there with Jones the Elder in setting guys up. He's still a functioning piece.

Cap-wise, here's my take:

For Debrincat's next contract I can't see him commanding more than ~9M: He is arbitration-eligible and when it comes to players his age, he's not a PPG player, he's not a full-on 2-way player (like Toews was), and his doesn't set up as well as score goals (like Kane). Someone like Brady Tkachuck or Ryan Johansen might be a comparable and they are in the ~8M range. Draisaitl is also in that pricerange, but he can set up as well as score, which works against Debrincat.

I bring this up because if Debrincat wants to stay, I think ~9M is as much as he would get, realistically. So if his price raises from ~6.4M to 9M, that sets a baseline for how much we can spend on other players. So, let's say hypothetically Kane is willing to re-sign for 5.5M AAV. 9+5.5M is 14.5M. 6.4M+10.5M is 16.9M. The 'hawks would be up 2.4M in cap in that scenario.

Plus, looking at other expirees:

Toews is unlikely to re-sign, and if he did, it would have to be for A LOT less, like in the 3M range. either way that would be hypothetically ~7-10.5M saved.

Kubalik has to do A LOT to command much more than he's making now.

Connoly's likely gone.

Strome is likely gone--and if not he'll need to work on his game a lot to command much more that what he's making.

Dach will have to do more to command a good price for his 1st RFA deal. Kane/Toews pulled in twice as much for their 1st RFA deals and they were easily twice the players at the time than Dach is now. I think 3.5 *max*, and I'm being generous.

Kurashev is probably in the same boat as Dach.

DeHaan by all rights should be gone.

Gus should be gone--in fact, he never should have been here.

I don't see Caleb jones commanding much more than 2M.

Goaltending is a ?, but given that the 'hawks likley aren't going anywhere in the next 5+ years, they probably shouldn't be spending much on the position until they (a) develop one--and they haven't come anywhere close or (b) the rest of the skater core is ready to make a deep run, and that likely won't happen anytime soon.
It'll be interesting to see what Kubalik actually wants. He's making 3.7 million right now, his new contract will be his third NHL contract, the guy already gave the Hawks a bit of a break by signing just a two-year deal, and most importantly, the guy will be in his late-twenties this summer. In other words, it's safe to say he's going to want a substantial contract -- this contract will be his last chance to cash in, so he's going to want long-term and big dollars. To me, that's all the more reason to trade him. I mean, if the guy wants to sign a 3-year deal for 5 million per, maybe you consider it, but I can't imagine the guy will want anything less than 6-7 for 5-6 years, if not longer.

And also, I'm just not convinced that Kubalik is a guy you build a team around. He's a nice piece, sure, but I don't view him as a "core" guy. That's where this team needs to start.
Exactly. Koob's numbers haven't been there since his 1st year with us and he hasn't proven to be a core player. I don't see him making much more than he is now. If he wants a ton, we let him walk. If a decent deal can be made around him, trade him.
The mb consensus was drafting byram. Of course bowman the lesser gets the wtf pick lol. But that’s the cost of keeping a failing gm right? It took hiding sexual offenders to get rid of him when it should have just been for franchise mismanagement
Thankfully the H&RBlock Reject is no longer with us.
 

Granada

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Last night is why I would keep Murphy (I think). Really liked how he stood up for Dach against Landeskog, who is no slouch in the fighting department. He'd be useful on a rebuilding team and he's cheap and term-controlled.
 

BEARZOMBIE

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Is there a reason why they haven’t hired the gm they plan on keeping long term yet?
 

HSBOB

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Yeah,JT's worn out from big miles and winning cups so let's dump that deal any way possible.......it'll give us room to keep winners like Brent 'buyout' Connolly(been callin' him that since day one)3.5M for this year and next makes him UNTRADEABLE and of course Tyler Johnson (also untradeable) for 5M till 2024..........disc replacement for a 31yro 4LC is soooo encouraging.
JT might be close to done unless he finds a fountain of youth but does the team get more for his 10 1/2M next year in leadership alone or more from Johnson and Connolly's 8.5M?

Most of the cup winners DID get too much for too long but why do losers making 3-5M that never did a thing for the team never get anyone's attention? Wasted cap space is wasted cap space.

4M for McCabe till '2025' seems to be another 'no skin off anyone's ass' type of contract but once again....wasted cap space is wasted cap space.

Maybe retaining 5-6M for a year can get JT moved with some return or does he darken the team's door once again next year? We still have the 'heir apparent'?
 

Granada

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Is there a reason why they haven’t hired the gm they plan on keeping long term yet?

Well they experienced a monumentally perfect shit-storm mid-season, so it's a bit understandable that they only have an interim coach and GM at the moment. The organization may have been expecting firing Colliton mid-season, but not Bowman. So I'm guessing they don't want to rush into anything regarding a GM hire; and if you're hiring a GM, you may as well let him hire his own coach.

This is pure speculation, but I wouldn't be surprised if King and Davidson wear their interim titles for the entire year. It's all but a lost, no-playoffs year anyway. Then the organization can do their due diligence in hiring a GM in the off-season. Then again, this year's trade deadline will be extremely important for the Hawks. Will they trust Davidson at that time? Maybe they feel as if they don't have a choice.
 

SkyKing

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The draft is scheduled for July 7 and 8. Wouldn't it make sense to hire a GM well before that so he'd have time to assess talent and draft with some sort of plan? Wouldn't it also make sense to have a staff (scouts) and a coach solidly in place with enough time to contribute to this plan? Of course, ownership would have to have it's shit together to accomplish this, but will Rocky drag his feet and come up with more crap?
 

Granada

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The draft is scheduled for July 7 and 8. Wouldn't it make sense to hire a GM well before that so he'd have time to assess talent and draft with some sort of plan? Wouldn't it also make sense to have a staff (scouts) and a coach solidly in place with enough time to contribute to this plan? Of course, ownership would have to have it's shit together to accomplish this, but will Rocky drag his feet and come up with more crap?
Fair point. I'd like them to hire a GM sooner rather than later too, we can only speculate why they're slow-rolling. Maybe the plan is to remove the interim tag for Davidson after seeing how he handles the deadline?

Here's the thing: if there isn't a viable replacement out there right now, then I support the Hawks staying pat with Davidson. I don't want them to hire someone simply for the sake of hiring someone; I want them to hire someone that is right for the job. And I really don't want them hiring someone utterly stupid like fucking Chelios or something.
 

JimAKABlkhwks918

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Fair point. I'd like them to hire a GM sooner rather than later too, we can only speculate why they're slow-rolling. Maybe the plan is to remove the interim tag for Davidson after seeing how he handles the deadline?

Here's the thing: if there isn't a viable replacement out there right now, then I support the Hawks staying pat with Davidson. I don't want them to hire someone simply for the sake of hiring someone; I want them to hire someone that is right for the job. And I really don't want them hiring someone utterly stupid like fucking Chelios or something.
NO.gif

They already are pulling a White Sox and hiring his daughter like the Sox had to hire all of Guillen's kids...bad enough Chelios is an ambassador, but leave him there where he can't do any actual damage.
 

BEARZOMBIE

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Fair point. I'd like them to hire a GM sooner rather than later too, we can only speculate why they're slow-rolling. Maybe the plan is to remove the interim tag for Davidson after seeing how he handles the deadline?

Here's the thing: if there isn't a viable replacement out there right now, then I support the Hawks staying pat with Davidson. I don't want them to hire someone simply for the sake of hiring someone; I want them to hire someone that is right for the job. And I really don't want them hiring someone utterly stupid like fucking Chelios or something.
That’s the only thing I can think of is you can’t poach assistants off other teams during the season for gm or waiting on some gm contracts that they are interested in to expire. Otherwise I would want my long term staff in place sooner than later
 

Granada

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Gone because they suck:
Stillman
Nylander
De Haan
Gus
McCabe
(in that order)

Gone because they don't make sense on a rebuilding team:
Tyler Johnson
MAF

Gone because they're a dime a dozen:
Carpenter
Khaira

Gone because they had one good year and teams may want to take a chance on him:
Kubalik (yeah I said it)
Strome (zero heart)

That's it for the "gone" camp (at least 11 players)
There's one down. Rumor is that Strome and De Haan are next at the deadline (assuming someone wants them). NHL Rumors: Bruins, Sharks, Blackhawks, Kraken, Penguins
 

Savard18

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There's one down. Rumor is that Strome and De Haan are next at the deadline (assuming someone wants them). NHL Rumors: Bruins, Sharks, Blackhawks, Kraken, Penguins
CDH is rumoured out here in Leaf land but talk is giving up Justin Holl which I hope never happens cause than your saddled with the same of type of dman but Holl has one more year. Leafs don't have much in the way of draft picks so I can't see this one happening. Besides after seeing what they got for Nylander do you really want to see Davidson making deals?
 

Granada

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CDH is rumoured out here in Leaf land but talk is giving up Justin Holl which I hope never happens cause than your saddled with the same of type of dman but Holl has one more year. Leafs don't have much in the way of draft picks so I can't see this one happening. Besides after seeing what they got for Nylander do you really want to see Davidson making deals?
Ideally, I want a permanent GM hired before the deadline, but if Davidson is still the interim, then yes, I would rather see Davidson make deals than stand pat at the deadline. I don't judge him as harshly for the Nylander trade because I don't think you were getting anything dramatically better than that. Nylander is nothing but a bust on multiple teams and failed high draft pick, with a terrible work ethic to boot. It's not like Davidson got fleeced in that trade, sure it would have been nice if it was for a pick, but I'm not going to rake him over the coals simply for that.

The way I see it, the Hawks can't afford to stand pat at the deadline this year, because that will be the ideal time to move some of our current dead weight. With regard to some players (i.e. 90% of our current D-core), it will be the only time to move them because teams will be desperate for any help they can get for playoffs. I'd rather move some of these guys than be stuck with them for at least another year.
 

KBIB

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There's one down. Rumor is that Strome and De Haan are next at the deadline (assuming someone wants them). NHL Rumors: Bruins, Sharks, Blackhawks, Kraken, Penguins
Well by reading that, Gio is likely to be the main defenseman available at the deadline especially if they retain. That puts Plyon DeHaan in third round pick territory, which I would take in a heartbeat.

Strome has seventh round pick value. I don’t understand anybody mentioning him as a trade piece.

You are looking at Kubalik who might have first round pick value, I say trade him and get back into this draft
 

Bust

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Hawks at one time were counting on the next gen Defensemen to carry the team into the next phase. 2 1st round picks at that!

They may all be busts! Thanks Mark Kelley!

Adam Boqvist <he gone>
Ian Mitchell <uh oh, both king and colliton obviously don't like his play>
Nicolas Beaudin <see above>
 

KBIB

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Hawks at one time were counting on the next gen Defensemen to carry the team into the next phase. 2 1st round picks at that!

They may all be busts! Thanks Mark Kelley!

Adam Boqvist <he gone>
Ian Mitchell <uh oh, both king and colliton obviously don't like his play>
Nicolas Beaudin <see above>
Bustvist is horrible. He’s playing third pairing minutes and is one of the most sheltered players in the league. That wasn’t a big loss.

Mitchell they obviously misjudged talent wise. His game doesn’t translate well into the nhl. If he was faster, maybe, but right now he’s a bust.

Beaudin was a reach at the time and a bad one. He wouldn’t have been there in the third round since the Hawks traded away their second that draft, so they took him over Sandin, would would have fit this team like a glove, and Veleno, who was bpa.

This you have to blame on scouting. If they traded Joker for a scrub because of Mitchell, which is what Blowman said, there’s more problems with scouting then meets the eye.
 

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But but but PLAYERS ONLY MEETING
 

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