Would this stat line convince you Fields is the guy?

[DanielCCSBears]

No, it wasn't good. I never said it was, just "as good as it was" as in "not the worst one in the NFL statistically as would have been expected for it's talent level sans Fields." I shudder to think what it would have looked like with an average QB like Kirk Cousins or Jared Goff who didn't bring the rushing threat that Fields did. Behind an O-line that struggled with pass blocking and 1/2 receivers being ESB and Dante Pettis at one point? Sure, they'd have been a little more efficient in the passing game but to the giant detriment of the run game, both the QBs rushing yards and the lanes it opened up for the backs as a result of Fields' ability to house it with his legs (and with his arm to a lesser extent).


I know you hate Justin Fields but do you acknowledge that the talent level around him last year was easily bottom 5 if not the worst in the NFL? I and Justin Fields fully acknowledge that Justin Fields needs to improve in the short/intermediate passing game, taking what the defense gives him and throwing guys open. Furthermore, monumental upgrades have been made to the offense around him namely in the form of DJ Moore but also on the O-line with Davis/Wright and subtraction of Mustipher. No way this offense struggles to score over 20 points a game even if Fields is just decent in the short/intermediate passing game because of everything else he and the improved offense brings to the table.

Yes but Jay Cutler faced similar problems with talent around him on offense. When Devin Hester is your number one receiver and he's not nor ever would be comparable to Mooney or Claypool I can't really give Fields a pass for being so horrible as a passer. I don't think DJ Moore will be enough to elevate Fields and that's what we're arguing here, will Moore Claypool and Mooney elevate Fields. We're already to the point where are hoping that a combination of players is enough to elevate Fields. Yeah, Fields will play better, but I don't see him playing well enough to get his fifth-year option or be the long-term option. It's exhausting to have a QB that needs the right amount of talent around him to just be average at best. What's acceptable here? Jay Cutler level of production every year? Aren't we over Cutler and aiming for the next QB; Fields or otherwise to be better than even what Cutler was? Cutler was pretty much average to below every year in Chicago. So what's the ceiling and will the Bears have to DJ Moore and then someone better than Claypool to compete? DJ Moore is great, but Claypool isn't even good. I'm so over having the same argument for 15 years...the Bears QB will be good if only.

 

[DanielCCSBears]

Alex Smith and Geno Smith. Vinny T. Ryan Tannehill

Those are great QBs? Those guys are your definition of great? At what point in their careers have either one of them ever been considered great. You set the standard, great QBs, and making the playoffs. None of those guys have ever been great. Do you want Justin Fields to be like them? Is that your ceiling?

 

[BaBaBlacksheep]

Those are great QBs? Those guys are your definition of great? At what point in their careers have either one of them ever been considered great. You set the standard, great QBs, and making the playoffs. None of those guys have ever been great. Do you want Justin Fields to be like them? Is that your ceiling?

I’ve pointed out HOF players. Old players. Younger players. Your argument is shit. You just keep moving the goalposts.

 

[DanielCCSBears]

I’ve pointed out HOF players. Old players. Younger players. Your argument is shit. You just keep moving the goalposts.

You said great QBs....so you want to change the parameters from great to EVERY QB?

 

[Nelly]

Yes but Jay Cutler faced similar problems with talent around him on offense. When Devin Hester is your number one receiver and he's not nor ever would be comparable to Mooney or Claypool I can't really give Fields a pass for being so horrible as a passer. I don't think DJ Moore will be enough to elevate Fields and that's what we're arguing here, will Moore Claypool and Mooney elevate Fields. We're already to the point where are hoping that a combination of players is enough to elevate Fields. Yeah, Fields will play better, but I don't see him playing well enough to get his fifth-year option or be the long-term option. It's exhausting to have a QB that needs the right amount of talent around him to just be average at best. What's acceptable here? Jay Cutler level of production every year? Aren't we over Cutler and aiming for the next QB; Fields or otherwise to be better than even what Cutler was? Cutler was pretty much average to below every year in Chicago. So what's the ceiling and will the Bears have to DJ Moore and then someone better than Claypool to compete? DJ Moore is great, but Claypool isn't even good. I'm so over having the same argument for 15 years...the Bears QB will be good if only.

Luckily for us players can get better from year 2 to 3. You seem to think Fields' progression has stopped completely and he can't get better, only the players around him.

Can you explain how Jalen Hurts went from a 87 passer rating in year 2 to 101 in year 3? Was that 100% all AJ Brown?

 

[BaBaBlacksheep]

You said great QBs....so you want to change the parameters from great to EVERY QB?

Again. I pointed out HOF players.

Several

 

[DanielCCSBears]

Luckily for us players can get better from year 2 to 3. You seem to think Fields' progression has stopped completely and he can't get better, only the players around him.

Can you explain how Jalen Hurts went from a 87 passer rating in year 2 to 101 in year 3? Was that 100% all AJ Brown?

Statistically speaking Jalen Hurts wasn't that great, he was good, He was 10th in yards. 14th in TDs, 11th in yards per game. He was efficient with only 6 INTs and high YPA average but yeah I would prefer to see him play at a higher level this year if I'm an Eagles fan. I wouldn't have made that contract investment in him after one good year. I would prefer year-over-year consistency.

But he's helped by having one of the best offensive lines made his life monumentally better. But given that he had two great WRs and a great offensive line he should have played even better than what he did. I mean when you have THAT much talent around you, and the thought process is he'll be great for a long time, shouldn't he play better than even what he did last year, especially in the NFC?

The Eagles built up that team over a decade, not in three short years.

 

[Nelly]

Statistically speaking Jalen Hurts wasn't that great, he was good, He was 10th in yards. 14th in TDs, 11th in yards per game. He was efficient with only 6 INTs and high YPA average but yeah I would prefer to see him play at a higher level this year if I'm an Eagles fan. I wouldn't have made that contract investment in him after one good year. I would prefer year-over-year consistency.

But he's helped by having one of the best offensive lines made his life monumentally better. But given that he had two great WRs and a great offensive line he should have played even better than what he did. I mean when you have THAT much talent around you, and the thought process is he'll be great for a long time, shouldn't he play better than even what he did last year, especially in the NFC?

The Eagles built up that team over a decade, not in three short years.

So you don't think Hurts got any better? He's just a product of the offense around him?

And for TDs, are you counting his rushing TDs?

 

[pdxbearsfan]

my point is Fields can throw for 4500+ with 30+ TD's and it wont matter if the Bears have a losing record.

But even if you take out the teams record and look purely at the stats why are we leaving out the rushing stats...last year Fields was in the top 10 as a rusher but we want to ignore that for just his passing stats? If Fields has a bump in his passing stats and has another 1K rushing season... how can anyone say statistically he fell short?

Again, if the Bears are 5-12 it won't mean much because his critics will only focus on him not doing enough in the passing game and his cheerleaders are going to point to the defense.

If JF threw for 4500+ and 30+ TD's with a good completion %, say 62% there is no way in hell they move away from him unless he throws 20 or so Int's and fumbles a lot.

 

[DanielCCSBears]

So you don't think Hurts got any better? He's just a product of the offense around him?

And for TDs, are you counting his rushing TDs?

Yeah he got better, but he wouldn't be the same player on a different team. There are QBs that elevate the players around them, and QBs that get elevated by the players around them.

Jalen Hurts looks more like a future Dak Prescott than he does Joe Burrow or Patrick Mahomes. Kyler Murray would be better with the Eagles than he is with the Cardinals but he still wouldn't be on an elite level.

Do you want to have to keep a great team around Justin Fields year after year in the salary cap era? I don't think Hurts' ceiling is on the same level of consistency as we've seen from Mahomes. I don't think he's going to improve year over year to the point that he's suddenly going to look like MVP candidate every year.

 

[DanielCCSBears]

If JF threw for 4500+ and 30+ TD's with a good completion %, say 62% there is no way in hell they move away from him unless he throws 20 or so Int's and fumbles a lot.

Well we know that Justin Fields is cautious to the point that I don't see him throwing for 20 INTs, but that level of caution likely means he'll never trust his reads enough to make enough big throws to throw for 30-plus TDs. I don't envision Fields improving enough to throw for 30-plus TDs at any point in his career. He doesn't trust what he's seeing and I don't know if that level of instinct can be created with more experience.

 

[Nelly]

Yeah he got better, but he wouldn't be the same player on a different team. There are QBs that elevate the players around them, and QBs that get elevated by the players around them.

Jalen Hurts looks more like a future Dak Prescott than he does Joe Burrow or Patrick Mahomes. Kyler Murray would be better with the Eagles than he is with the Cardinals but he still wouldn't be on an elite level.

Do you want to have to keep a great team around Justin Fields year after year in the salary cap era? I don't think Hurts' ceiling is on the same level of consistency as we've seen from Mahomes. I don't think he's going to improve year over year to the point that he's suddenly going to look like MVP candidate every year.

So you admit that a quarterback can improve from one year to the next, therefore opening the door to Fields not being the worst QB in the league in your assertion. Cool.

 

[PrideisBears]

When a losing quarterback can't even get garbage time yards, he's just a garbage quarterback. I have very little hope he's going to be anything more than he's shown.

So happy you aren’t posting as much

 

[PrideisBears]

I’ve pointed out HOF players. Old players. Younger players. Your argument is shit. You just keep moving the goalposts.

I did it earlier, dude is the skip bayless of writers without the money

 

[DanielCCSBears]

So you admit that a quarterback can improve from one year to the next, therefore opening the door to Fields not being the worst QB in the league in your assertion. Cool.

Umm well how about no one has gone from the worst QB to one of the best.

 

[PrideisBears]

Umm well how about no one has gone from the worst QB to one of the best.

And besides yards what made him the worst QB?

 

[DanielCCSBears]

And besides yards what made him the worst QB?

As if was kind

And besides yards what made him the worst QB?

PFF came out with the mertric

• Fields not finding open receivers: He has been the league's worst quarterback on plays where at least one defender leaves a receiver open (0.17 EPA).

I need to be more wrong on this than anything in the history of my sports life. Justin Fields needs to prove me wrong in the worst way. I want to be wrong. I want Justin Fields to be a top-5 QB with a Jalen Hurts level performance this year and then I want him to be in competition with Mahomes Burrow Lawrence Allen and Herbert for the best season year in and year out.

He should arguably be the best or the second best QB in the NFC this year.

Take the Bears to the playoffs this year and then use their two first round picks to solidify the team for the next 5 years.

If the Justin Fields leads them to the playoffs this year then there's no reason they can't be in the Super Bowl within 2024 and 2025.

That's the standard. Top-2 NFC QB, playoffs and Super Bowl by 2025.

 

[KittiesKorner]

Your sports life?

 

[PrideisBears]

As if was kind

PFF came out with the mertric

• Fields not finding open receivers: He has been the league's worst quarterback on plays where at least one defender leaves a receiver open (0.17 EPA).

I need to be more wrong on this than anything in the history of my sports life. Justin Fields needs to prove me wrong in the worst way. I want to be wrong. I want Justin Fields to be a top-5 QB with a Jalen Hurts level performance this year and then I want him to be in competition with Mahomes Burrow Lawrence Allen and Herbert for the best season year in and year out.

He should arguably be the best or the second best QB in the NFC this year.

Take the Bears to the playoffs this year and then use their two first round picks to solidify the team for the next 5 years.

If the Justin Fields leads them to the playoffs this year then there's no reason they can't be in the Super Bowl within 2024 and 2025.

That's the standard. Top-2 NFC QB, playoffs and Super Bowl by 2025.

Link the metric that said Fields was the worst QB

 

[mecha]

Link the metric that said Fields was the worst QB

people like this mutt idiot act like Fields was the reason the Bears lost all those games. when you score 4-5 touchdowns a game and still lose, that's not your offense that's the problem, it's the defense. the whole team was shit. this notion that the quarterback is the singlemost important player in all of sports is kind of baffling to me given that their mode of success is mostly dictated by the other players around them.

Super Bowl winning teams don't have receivers with 400 yards on the year or offensive linemen that would be 3rd string at best on good teams.