Your Expectations for Trubisky this season....

[PrideisBears]

What does this have to do with him having a passer rating below 80 during the first playoff run? Or the fact that it was multiple people who said it at the time.



I love how you ignore the 6 yards per pass attempt, 70.4 QB rating, and the 16 points scored. They won of course because of the fumble/non-fumble against the Raiders. They were dinking and doinking. I also love how you ignore the 18 pass attempts the following game and the 115 yards passing. As well as the 145 yards passing in the SB in a dome. He was a game manager. In 17 games that season, he cracked 250 yards 3 times and had less than 200 yards 8 times including 2 out of 3 playoff games. Not sure why it is amazing to say a guy who couldn't crack 200 yards in over half his games was a game manager.

If you are talking about his first year in 2001 of course Bill wasnt going to let Brady throw 30 to 40 times a game. Brady just came off the bench because of an injury but i still wouldnt consider him a game manager. Hell i think he went to the pro bowl that year too and as Rory mentioned the following year he lead the league in TD's. I dont think you can look at one year of a career and call it game manager esque.


Also this still doesnt explain Wilson who you also called a game manager

 

[remydat]

If you are talking about his first year in 2001 of course Bill wasnt going to let Brady throw 30 to 40 times a game. Brady just came off the bench because of an injury but i still wouldnt consider him a game manager. Hell i think he went to the pro bowl that year too and as Rory mentioned the following year he lead the league in TD's. I dont think you can look at one year of a career and call it game manager esque.

Also this still doesnt explain Wilson who you also called a game manager

I already posted half a dozen articles calling Brady a game manager early in his career and linked to an article calling Wilson a game manager in the mold of Brady. Here are more.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/dec/15/russell-wilson-game-manager-seattle-seahawks-nfl

http://www.espn.com/blog/seattle-se...ell-wilson-a-game-manager-just-like-tom-brady

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/12/5/18126856/russell-wilson-seattle-seahawks-offensive-evolution

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2017/5/2...complementary-quarterback-elite-pocket-passer

So at this point, I am not arguing your personal opinion on the matter as it is clear there was talk of them being game managers. That was the context of my comments as I was aware of the talk of them being game managers early in their career and all I was saying is I would be fine if Trubs fit that mold here in Chicago early in his career.

If Brady and Wilson were never considered game managers then there wouldn't be so many articles about them being just that when I googled. You can google yourself and confirm as again, it really matters very little whether you or anyone else agrees with that assessment as that was not the point. The point was the rep was out there and I have no problem with Trubs having a season similar to theirs even if his yards and QB rating are not amazing.

So the question you need to answer is whether you want to argue the history of how they were perceived even by themselves and other players or whether you understand it was being presented only to explain why I would be content with lesser numbers provided Trubs wins and is clutch when he needs to be like they were.

 

[PrideisBears]

I already posted half a dozen articles calling Brady a game manager early in his career and linked to an article calling Wilson a game manager in the mold of Brady. Here are more.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/dec/15/russell-wilson-game-manager-seattle-seahawks-nfl

http://www.espn.com/blog/seattle-se...ell-wilson-a-game-manager-just-like-tom-brady

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/12/5/18126856/russell-wilson-seattle-seahawks-offensive-evolution

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2017/5/2...complementary-quarterback-elite-pocket-passer

So at this point, I am not arguing your personal opinion on the matter as it is clear there was talk of them being game managers. That was the context of my comments as I was aware of the talk of them being game managers early in their career and all I was saying is I would be fine if Trubs fit that mold here in Chicago early in his career.

If Brady and Wilson were never considered game managers then there wouldn't be so many articles about them being just that when I googled. You can google yourself and confirm as again, it really matters very little whether you or anyone else agrees with that assessment as that was not the point. The point was the rep was out there and I have no problem with Trubs having a season similar to theirs even if his yards and QB rating are not amazing.

So the question you need to answer is whether you want to argue the history of how they were perceived even by themselves and other players or whether you understand it was being presented only to explain why I would be content with lesser numbers provided Trubs wins and is clutch when he needs to be like they were.

So your proof of two great QB's being "game managers" are articles, not written by players but random writers? You're going to ignore the stats and go with what a few writers think just because you googled Tom Brady is a game manager? What if i google Tom Brady is a gunslinger or Russel Wilson is a pure pocket passer and got results from some random people? Does that prove my point as well? If you want to say Brady was a game manager his first year because he came off the bench, then fine but nothing else suggest that.

 

[PrideisBears]

Russell Wilson, The Galloping Gunslinger

Wilson's ability as a passer and runner have been giving defenses nightmares since he entered the league in 2012.

www.theodysseyonline.com

Tom Brady: Most Successful Gunslinger in History

Do you like quarterbacks who throw a lot? Well, Tom Brady should be your favorite.

www.google.com

All the proof i need!

 

[Rory Sparrow]

What does this have to do with him having a passer rating below 80 during the first playoff run? Or the fact that it was multiple people who said it at the time.

So being a 'game manager' is determined by your passer rating? Cool. So when Drew Bledsoe set the single-season pass attempt record in a year when he had a 73.6 rating...does that mean Bledsoe was a "game manager" that year?

What does this have to do with him having a passer rating below 80 during the first playoff run? Or the fact that it was multiple people who said it at the time.

I love how you ignore the 6 yards per pass attempt, 70.4 QB rating, and the 16 points scored. They won of course because of the fumble/non-fumble against the Raiders. They were dinking and doinking. I also love how you ignore the 18 pass attempts the following game and the 115 yards passing. As well as the 145 yards passing in the SB in a dome. He was a game manager. In 17 games that season, he cracked 250 yards 3 times and had less than 200 yards 8 times including 2 out of 3 playoff games. Not sure why it is amazing to say a guy who couldn't crack 200 yards in over half his games was a game manager.

So when you kept repeating "early in his career" in regards to Brady, you weren't including his first full year as a starter, when he led the NFL in passing TDs, was 3rd in pass attempts, and played on a team that ranked 23rd in defense...because that obviously does not fit the 'game manager' criteria, right? So, when you say "early in his career", you mean his first 14 games?

Also, I like how you've completely glossed over your Trent Dilfer/Tom Brady comp, which was the whole impetus for my posting. Brady completed 32 passes in his first playoff game as a game manager. In Dilfer's 4 playoff games as the Ravens game manager QB, he completed a total of 35 passes. So in one game Brady completed almost as many passes as Dilfer did in 4 games. Great comp!

 

[Outlaw Josey Cutler]

What does this have to do with him having a passer rating below 80 during the first playoff run? Or the fact that it was multiple people who said it at the time.



I love how you ignore the 6 yards per pass attempt, 70.4 QB rating, and the 16 points scored. They won of course because of the fumble/non-fumble against the Raiders. They were dinking and doinking. I also love how you ignore the 18 pass attempts the following game and the 115 yards passing. As well as the 145 yards passing in the SB in a dome. He was a game manager. In 17 games that season, he cracked 250 yards 3 times and had less than 200 yards 8 times including 2 out of 3 playoff games. Not sure why it is amazing to say a guy who couldn't crack 200 yards in over half his games was a game manager.

EDIT: Never mind. Rory did my post better.

 

[Rory Sparrow]

EDIT: Never mind. Rory did my post better.

As per the norm, remy's blitherings boil down to semantics. "Early in his career"..."Game manager"...that is really all we are talking about here. What Tom Brady actually did is almost irrelevant.

 

[airtime143]

So your proof of two great QB's being "game managers" are articles, not written by players but random writers? You're going to ignore the stats and go with what a few writers think just because you googled Tom Brady is a game manager? What if i google Tom Brady is a gunslinger or Russel Wilson is a pure pocket passer and got results from some random people? Does that prove my point as well? If you want to say Brady was a game manager his first year because he came off the bench, then fine but nothing else suggest that.

There was plenty of arguments around the league in the early 2000's that brady was a product of a system. The term game manager was often used all the way up to his 07 Moss season. The defense and scheme were the focal points around the league.

The guy won 3 super bowls his first 6 years, first on in year one... yet missed the pro bowl 3 out of those 6 years at a time when the pro bowl actually pointed to respect around the league. (and funny enough, in 03, he lost out to Bledsoe on the bills)


I dont recall anyone calling wilson a game manager though. Running QB, yes, but never do I recall game manager in reference to him.

 

[Rory Sparrow]

There was plenty of arguments around the league in the early 2000's that brady was a product of a system. The term game manager was often used all the way up to his 07 Moss season.

And they were completely baseless then, and remain so now.

The guy won 3 super bowls his first 6 years, first on in year one... yet missed the pro bowl 3 out of those 6 years at a time when the pro bowl actually pointed to respect around the league. (and funny enough, in 03, he lost out to Bledsoe on the bills)

In his fifth year he led the NFL in passing yardage...but since made "only" 3 pro bowls in his first 6 years, should we classify Brady's fifth year as (yet another) "game manger" season of his?

 

[Outlaw Josey Cutler]

There was plenty of arguments around the league in the early 2000's that brady was a product of a system. The term game manager was often used all the way up to his 07 Moss season.
....
I dont recall anyone calling wilson a game manager though. Running QB, yes, but never do I recall game manager in reference to him.

It's irrelevant whether writers proclaim a QB a "game manager" or not. Every QB ever is a game manager first and foremost.

When a coach asks more of his leader in terms of attempts and/or the QB produces more than the average QB like most TDs in the NFL, then it is safe to say that the QB is creating plays more than just managing plays.

There is no caveat I know of for having weak pass yards per attempt or low rating; certainly not whether a player is a "product of the system". Hell, by that logic, Montana and Young were game managers that were products of Walsh's system

 

[Rory Sparrow]

There is no caveat I know of for having weak pass yards per attempt or low rating; certainly not whether a player is a "product of the system". Hell, by that logic, Montana and Young were game managers that were products of Walsh's system

I liked it when remydat inserted "passer rating" into his 'game manager' criteria...a completely unexpected turn of events!

I can't wait for remydat's argument against Ezekiel Elliott being considered a 'workhorse RB' in the Eagles game this year...sure, he carried 28 times for 113 yards and had 12 receptions for 79 yards...but he barely averaged over 4 yards per carry and had LESS than 7 yards per reception!

 

[remydat]

So your proof of two great QB's being "game managers" are articles, not written by players but random writers? You're going to ignore the stats and go with what a few writers think just because you googled Tom Brady is a game manager? What if i google Tom Brady is a gunslinger or Russel Wilson is a pure pocket passer and got results from some random people? Does that prove my point as well? If you want to say Brady was a game manager his first year because he came off the bench, then fine but nothing else suggest that.

In one of the articles Brady alluded to it and in another Michael Robinson who played with Wilson said it. Did you even bother reading them?

 

[remydat]

So being a 'game manager' is determined by your passer rating? Cool. So when Drew Bledsoe set the single-season pass attempt record in a year when he had a 73.6 rating...does that mean Bledsoe was a "game manager" that year?



So when you kept repeating "early in his career" in regards to Brady, you weren't including his first full year as a starter, when he led the NFL in passing TDs, was 3rd in pass attempts, and played on a team that ranked 23rd in defense...because that obviously does not fit the 'game manager' criteria, right? So, when you say "early in his career", you mean his first 14 games?

Also, I like how you've completely glossed over your Trent Dilfer/Tom Brady comp, which was the whole impetus for my posting. Brady completed 32 passes in his first playoff game as a game manager. In Dilfer's 4 playoff games as the Ravens game manager QB, he completed a total of 35 passes. So in one game Brady completed almost as many passes as Dilfer did in 4 games. Great comp!

No I also pointed out he threw for less than 200 yards in 8 of his 17 games including the AFC championship game and the Super Bowl where he didnt hit 150 yards in either game. Not sure why you quoting seasons he failed to make the playoffs. In 2 of the actual 3 SB years he threw for under 200 yards passing. That is game manager stats. Sorry.

Also I didnt compare Brady and Dilfer. Run and Shoot brought up Dilfer and I simply said Brady and Wilson obviously much better.

 

[remydat]

It's irrelevant whether writers proclaim a QB a "game manager" or not. Every QB ever is a game manager first and foremost.

When a coach asks more of his leader in terms of attempts and/or the QB produces more than the average QB like most TDs in the NFL, then it is safe to say that the QB is creating plays more than just managing plays.

There is no caveat I know of for having weak pass yards per attempt or low rating; certainly not whether a player is a "product of the system". Hell, by that logic, Montana and Young were game managers that were products of Walsh's system

Not sure your point. Again he had less than 200 yards in 8 out of 17 games in the year they won the SB. The year Rory is referring to when the D was not as good they did not make the playoffs as they finished 9-7. In 2 of his first 3 Super Bowls he averaged less than 200 yards passing in the playoffs. That is game manager stats. Quoting years he failed to make the playoffs doesnt say much. They won when the D was playing well and when Brady was a game manager. Not when he led the league in TDs and they missed the playoffs.

 

[remydat]

There was plenty of arguments around the league in the early 2000's that brady was a product of a system. The term game manager was often used all the way up to his 07 Moss season. The defense and scheme were the focal points around the league.

The guy won 3 super bowls his first 6 years, first on in year one... yet missed the pro bowl 3 out of those 6 years at a time when the pro bowl actually pointed to respect around the league. (and funny enough, in 03, he lost out to Bledsoe on the bills)


I dont recall anyone calling wilson a game manager though. Running QB, yes, but never do I recall game manager in reference to him.

Some just like to freak out anytime I post. Tom Brady as Game Manager was a well known debate back then.

I would agree Wilson less so but it was still a debate as I already linked some examples of it including from former teammates of his.

 

[PrideisBears]

Russell Wilson, The Galloping Gunslinger

Wilson's ability as a passer and runner have been giving defenses nightmares since he entered the league in 2012.

www.theodysseyonline.com

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pa...ammates of his. [/QUOTE] One former teammate

 

[remydat]

That article is after he put up elite numbers. As his former teammate points out when Seattle won the SB, Wilson averaged 174 yards passing in the playoffs and 194 in the regular season. He was a game manager. They scored 14, 15 and 16 points in their 3 playoff games. They won on D and ball control not Wilson airing it out.

The next year when they tried to air it out with Wilson he threw a pick that cost them the Super Bowl where if they had just stuck to running they probably win it. That was his former teammates point. Wilson and team was better when he was a game manager rather than when he was airing it out. Think Robison takes it too far but some of yall seem to not remember history or the fallout in Seattle because players felt too much of O shifted to Wilson.

 

[run and shoot]

Despite years of evidence, Michael Robinson still calls Russell Wilson “complementary factor”


On Michael Robinson ....I think he might be little a bitter / jealous Why? At one point he was a Qb for Penn. St. ( but he never had the oppty to show his Qb skills in the NFL). Unfortunately, he was changed to FB in the pro's.

 

[run and shoot]

Russell Wilson, The Galloping Gunslinger

Wilson's ability as a passer and runner have been giving defenses nightmares since he entered the league in 2012.

www.theodysseyonline.com

I don't know if this is good or bad but......

"Seattle Seahawks wide receiver Percy Harvin praised his quarterback Russell Wilson on Tuesday, comparing the third-year gunslinger to another quarterback he's played
with. "

Seahawks' Percy Harvin says Russell Wilson reminds him of Brett

 

[run and shoot]

That article is after he put up elite numbers. As his former teammate points out when Seattle won the SB, Wilson averaged 174 yards passing in the playoffs and 194 in the regular season. He was a game manager. They scored 14, 15 and 16 points in their 3 playoff games. They won on D and ball control not Wilson airing it out.

The next year when they tried to air it out with Wilson he threw a pick that cost them the Super Bowl where if they had just stuck to running they probably win it. That was his former teammates point. Wilson and team was better when he was a game manager rather than when he was airing it out. Think Robison takes it too far but some of yall seem to not remember history or the fallout in Seattle because players felt too much of O shifted to Wilson.

The next year when they tried to air it out with Wilson he threw a pick that cost them the Super Bowl where if they had just stuck to running they probably win it.

Ok....I gotta' step in here. That pass play call had zero to do with Wilson. Pete Carroll
call that awful play (Actually it was Darrell Bevell). After the game Carroll took the blame for it.

Carroll foolishly thought the Pats were in goal line "D" and the 'hawks could get away with a pass. One of the most questionable calls I'd ever seen in a SB. That call is not going on Wilson "airing it out"....it was on Carroll.