run and shoot
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Apr 28, 2013
- Posts:
- 16,007
- Liked Posts:
- 3,263
My favorite teams
Just Win, Baby
-Al Davis
-Al Davis
mecha
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Aug 21, 2012
- Posts:
- 12,856
- Liked Posts:
- 10,180
I missed 12 pages worth of material. not going back to read all of it because the new forum software hurts my eyes.
Tom Brady is the GOAT, Peyton Manning was an OC on the field, Russell Wilson is efficient... as in he doesn't fuck up often, so it makes his 130 yards a game through the majority of his career and the exceptions on about 10 occasions where he doubled that entirely acceptable.
if the Bears win 10+ games with Trubisky playing like utter dogshit or majorly lights out, what difference does it make? I don't see him playing like utter dogshit, he's a tier or two above Kyle Orton and probably exceeded what Cutler was capable of doing during his time with the Bears. I don't get everyone's obsession with expecting that dude to play flawless when he had minimal starts in college and his first season with the team saw them running an offense that was like 30/70% pass:run giving him minimal reps and burning Howard out. he'll be great, he has the skills, as have been exhibited, to actually do shit. he has a former QB as his head coach, care will be taken to craft him into something great. if it take a couple seasons to get 10 seasons of stellar play, I'll take that. the fucking kicker prevented us from winning a Super Bowl 2 months ago, and a poorly called offense. that's not Trubisky's fault.
to bring this full circle, Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl being guided the entire way by one of the greatest defenses of all time and was subsequently cut the following season, the only quarterback with that achievement to his credit. that's all I have to say.
Tom Brady is the GOAT, Peyton Manning was an OC on the field, Russell Wilson is efficient... as in he doesn't fuck up often, so it makes his 130 yards a game through the majority of his career and the exceptions on about 10 occasions where he doubled that entirely acceptable.
if the Bears win 10+ games with Trubisky playing like utter dogshit or majorly lights out, what difference does it make? I don't see him playing like utter dogshit, he's a tier or two above Kyle Orton and probably exceeded what Cutler was capable of doing during his time with the Bears. I don't get everyone's obsession with expecting that dude to play flawless when he had minimal starts in college and his first season with the team saw them running an offense that was like 30/70% pass:run giving him minimal reps and burning Howard out. he'll be great, he has the skills, as have been exhibited, to actually do shit. he has a former QB as his head coach, care will be taken to craft him into something great. if it take a couple seasons to get 10 seasons of stellar play, I'll take that. the fucking kicker prevented us from winning a Super Bowl 2 months ago, and a poorly called offense. that's not Trubisky's fault.
to bring this full circle, Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl being guided the entire way by one of the greatest defenses of all time and was subsequently cut the following season, the only quarterback with that achievement to his credit. that's all I have to say.
Rory Sparrow
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Aug 14, 2010
- Posts:
- 4,850
- Liked Posts:
- 3,735
Nope. Wrong again. You never even implied that Brady was "obviously much better" than Dilfer, much less actually say it (on a side note, if ever there was a time on CCS when you posted "That's not what I said" and then actually contributed what you did say, verbatim....then that would be the first).
I don't think I've ever seen such an epic fail on CCS. Tom Brady. Trent Dilfer. DEBATE!
Rory Sparrow
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Aug 14, 2010
- Posts:
- 4,850
- Liked Posts:
- 3,735
OK, so when you kept referring to "early in his career" for Brady, you meant to EXCLUDE his first full season as a starter (i.e. the year he led the NFL in TDs and placed 3rd in attempts), but then skip over to subsequent years in which the Patriots made the postseason?! Makes sense.
- Joined:
- Sep 15, 2012
- Posts:
- 57,890
- Liked Posts:
- 37,871
It’s up to the quarterback and the receiver to make sure the defender has to go through the back of the receiver in order to make a play on the slant. While this is not the exact same situation (since they are at the 11-yard line, not the goal line), look where Tom Brady puts this ball on the slant to Brandon LaFell for a touchdown earlier in the game. Also, look at how LaFell has positioned himself between the ball and the corner. v
https://www.si.com/2015/02/04/russell-wilson-super-bowl-49-interception-statistical-analysis
The bold is the problem. If you watch the below at 5:10, you lead the WR when the CB runs behind the pick. That was why Butler kept losing on that play in practice. So the minute Wilson sees that Butler has not run behind the WR but has jumped out in front then he should know that ball has to be thrown on his body or behind him. You don't throw ahead of him if the CB has jumped a
I already explained the play and why it failed. Bill Bellichek even explained it to you. It is a quick throw but you have to check the DB to see if he goes behind or over the pick. It is a simple read that Wilson missed.
https://www.si.com/2015/02/04/russell-wilson-super-bowl-49-interception-statistical-analysis
The bold is the problem. If you watch the below at 5:10, you lead the WR when the CB runs behind the pick. That was why Butler kept losing on that play in practice. So the minute Wilson sees that Butler has not run behind the WR but has jumped out in front then he should know that ball has to be thrown on his body or behind him. You don't throw ahead of him if the CB has jumped a
I already explained the play and why it failed. Bill Bellichek even explained it to you. It is a quick throw but you have to check the DB to see if he goes behind or over the pick. It is a simple read that Wilson missed.
- Joined:
- Sep 15, 2012
- Posts:
- 57,890
- Liked Posts:
- 37,871
So saying someone executed much better doesn't imply they are obviously better than someone? Ok, reading comprehension not your strong suit. And thst post is in response to run and shoot bringing up Dilfer in post 149.
- Joined:
- Sep 15, 2012
- Posts:
- 57,890
- Liked Posts:
- 37,871
No it was a comment about his first few years in the NFL and in particular the years they won the SBs where he operated more as a game manager. And it was also based on the debate about him early on which I provided ample support for. It is clear there was a lot of talk about him being a game manager. One non playoff season doesnt change the history.
In the early stages of his career, the term "game manager" was thrown around a lot with Tom Brady. While he didn't throw for a ton of yards, he avoided mistakes and rarely was the reason why the New England Patriots lost games.
Now, almost 15 years later, some might say the "game manager" label is a bad thing, but not to Brady.
“I don’t think that is a negative thing. ... Again, a great quarterback to me is one who puts his team in a position to win," he said Monday on "Mut and Callahan."
Tom Brady Admits He Hurts New England Patriots By Being Too Afraid Of Mistakes
Tom Brady said not wanting to make mistakes has affected his game in a negative way: “I think part of my problem is as I have gotten older is I want to make so few mistakes, maybe there’s not as much aggressiveness as I would like."
www.radio.com
We are going in circles. I will leave you with Brady's own words where he basically admits he was a game manager. So maybe write to Brady if you disagree.
Last edited:
- Joined:
- Aug 21, 2012
- Posts:
- 9,244
- Liked Posts:
- 5,707
- Location:
- Albuquerque, NM
In light of Wilson's new extension the question has to be asked: would you rather have Trubisky get incrementally better - enough to have have another shot with this defense, or become elite and command a monster deal in another year or two?
The Pats are the obvious exception and the Saints certainly had a shot last year, but the Falcons and Packers are the other side of the coin - teams that are so burdened by superstar qb contracts that they can't pay for enough talent to get over the hump. The Seahawks have been hemorrhaging talent for years knowing Wilson would have to get paid. And they still made a run last year but fell short.
I don't think the Bears are a championship team unless Pagano and the mildly depleted defense can match last year's performance, they find a kicker who doesn't suck ass (and don't have games where they give up two tds on special teams), and Trubisky improves.
I could get flamed for this but I kind of hope he improves only enough to get paid like a second tier guy, at least while the d is built to win.
Disclaimer: I haven't read the last few pages and this post is not in any way intended to stir the Remy vortex.
The Pats are the obvious exception and the Saints certainly had a shot last year, but the Falcons and Packers are the other side of the coin - teams that are so burdened by superstar qb contracts that they can't pay for enough talent to get over the hump. The Seahawks have been hemorrhaging talent for years knowing Wilson would have to get paid. And they still made a run last year but fell short.
I don't think the Bears are a championship team unless Pagano and the mildly depleted defense can match last year's performance, they find a kicker who doesn't suck ass (and don't have games where they give up two tds on special teams), and Trubisky improves.
I could get flamed for this but I kind of hope he improves only enough to get paid like a second tier guy, at least while the d is built to win.
Disclaimer: I haven't read the last few pages and this post is not in any way intended to stir the Remy vortex.
Rory Sparrow
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Aug 14, 2010
- Posts:
- 4,850
- Liked Posts:
- 3,735
Exactly. You could have "gone out on a limb" and said, verbatim, "Tom Brady is obviously better than Trent Dilfer". In fact, that is what 99.99% of football fans with a brain would say. Instead, you said, verbatim:
Let's break down what you actually said, line by line.
Here, you are allowing that Dilfer is comparable to Wilson and Brady. This is obvious, and borne out by the remainder of your statement. You have created a derogatory "Game Manager Scale", and you indicated that Wilson and Brady are definitely on it.
Again, you continue with the Dilfer is comparable to Wilson and Brady discussion. You indicate that you've given this idea much thought, and determined that Dilfer is indeed comparable to those two HOF QBs because Wilson/Brady's teams played like the 2000 Ravens (I can't even comment on such nonsense, as that would lead to another 15+ page thread). You also imply that any team which plays great D and limits mistakes (sounds like an ESPN Sunday Morning 'game breakdown' because it is so utterly inane) must be quarterbacked by a "Game Manager", which makes no sense.
We finally get to the 'money shot'. I've already discussed this section of your statement many times, to which you have yet to respond, so I am not sure what else I can add at this point. You are saying that Dilfer has the same 'tools' as Wilson and Brady...he is as mobile as Wilson, as accurate as Brady, can equal both in terms of 'pure passing'...but what separates Wilson and Brady from Dilfer is that Wilson and Brady simply carried out their coach's gameplan better in terms of execution...in other words, to demonstrate the heights of your lunacy, they were BETTER GAME MANAGERS THAN TRENT DILFER!
Again, perhaps the dumbest football thought ever posited on CCS. And that covers a lot of territory.
Congratulations are in order.
Rory Sparrow
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Aug 14, 2010
- Posts:
- 4,850
- Liked Posts:
- 3,735
Shocking.
dabears70
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Dec 31, 2013
- Posts:
- 33,921
- Liked Posts:
- -987
- Location:
- Orlando
My favorite teams
You should try living in the world of reality some time instead of coming on here with all your after the fact/hindsight crap trying to make yourself look smart like you would of known what to do in any situation before it actually happens.
Ahhhhhh the world of reality, you should try it.
- Joined:
- Sep 15, 2012
- Posts:
- 57,890
- Liked Posts:
- 37,871
Nothing in the above bears any resemblance to what I actually said. You have literally taken things and interpreted them in the dumbest way possible which is what you always do. I will leave you again with Tom Brady's thoughts on the matter.
In the early stages of his career, the term "game manager" was thrown around a lot with Tom Brady. While he didn't throw for a ton of yards, he avoided mistakes and rarely was the reason why the New England Patriots lost games.
Now, almost 15 years later, some might say the "game manager" label is a bad thing, but not to Brady.
“I don’t think that is a negative thing. ... Again, a great quarterback to me is one who puts his team in a position to win," he said Monday on "Mut and Callahan."
Black Rainbow
ChatGPT Created Account
- Joined:
- Apr 19, 2014
- Posts:
- 17,441
- Liked Posts:
- 8,141
I want him to be awesome as soon as possible.
My biggest fear with Trubisky is that he'll get marginally better by contract time where we are kinda forced to throw a big contract his way, and he never becomes good enough to justify it. I don't want to keep being told every year, that this will be his year, like we got baited into with Cutler.
And as far as the contracts go...I think if he's good enough to be resigned, he's going to get a big one anyway.
- Joined:
- Sep 15, 2012
- Posts:
- 57,890
- Liked Posts:
- 37,871
Do you understand what words mean? It is not hindsight to say and provide proof that back then people thought Brady was a game manager. In fact, the irony is you are applying hindsight to pretend that because he is great now, it means people always considered him great.
As for the Wilson pick, I gave you expert opinion (ie Bellichek) on why Wilson messed it up so just to confirm, I am not Bellichek so not sure how I am trying to make myself look smart.
Last edited:
- Joined:
- Sep 15, 2012
- Posts:
- 57,890
- Liked Posts:
- 37,871
I would rather he become elite. I think the Pats and Falcons are more hamstrung by the decisions they made. If you have an elite QB for example not sure you need to blow a 1st round pick on Ridley when you already have Jones. And the Pack were more hamstrung by choosing not to engage with FA for several years. They had money to spend, they just never spent it.
You can still build a great team with a huge QB contract. You just have to be smarter about how you allocate resources. Bears are in good shape for Trubs becoming elite because they already found their elite defender. So they would have an elite QB and elite defender and can build the rest of the team around them. They just need to avoid overpaying for replaceable production which they did for example by not paying Amos 9 million a year when they can just pay HaHa 3.5 million a year. You have to identify your game changes and pay them and just make sure you can replace the role players without as much drop off while having a few of those replacements turn into great players on cheap contrast like Roquan Smith for example.
Last edited:
Rory Sparrow
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Aug 14, 2010
- Posts:
- 4,850
- Liked Posts:
- 3,735
I didn't know there was any other way? Especially when you say, verbatim:
Very interested in hearing what Brady's reaction was when Mut and Callahan compared him to Trent Dilfer. Please post.
- Joined:
- Sep 15, 2012
- Posts:
- 57,890
- Liked Posts:
- 37,871
Please cite where I said Dilfer has the same tools? That is an example of your stupid interpretation. Someone with common sense would probably read my statement and surmise that one of the reasons they executed better is because they have different tools (physical and intangible) than Dilfer.
The point about the Brady quote is he obviously acknowledged the fact he was labeled a game manager and unlike your stupid interpretation is saying it is not a negative thing. One of the assumptions you are making is that being a game manager is always negative and the point here is Brady was embracing that designation. So the entire premise of your argument is flawed. There are guys who are shitty game managers and there are guys who are excellent. Dilfer would be in the former category while early Brady would be in the latter.
- Joined:
- Aug 21, 2012
- Posts:
- 11,244
- Liked Posts:
- 17,121
- Location:
- Chicago
Says the guy with "I am Ryan Pace" under his handle.
A.C. Milan
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Sep 17, 2015
- Posts:
- 2,349
- Liked Posts:
- 712
- Location:
- Milano Italy
My favorite teams
Cutler had a huge talent. Trubisky imho looks average in everything he does, he better improve and soon enough because he can't fool no one with his talent
Rory Sparrow
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Aug 14, 2010
- Posts:
- 4,850
- Liked Posts:
- 3,735
Already went over this moments ago. Post #229 if you are scoring at home.
In coachspeak blather, when I hear "they just out-executed us", I interpret that to mean the teams were relatively equal, but one team made mistakes and the other team didn't. No one would 'surmise' that one team was clearly superior to the other, or had large advantages in certain areas. Not sure why you expect people to interpret your comments to mean the opposite of reality (although, admittedly, this would probably make sense on some level).
It is disingenuous of you to spend entire paragraphs pointing out the similarities between Dilfer and Brady, and then now say "where did I say this?". Let's recap what you said...
Here, you are allowing that Dilfer is comparable to Wilson and Brady. This is obvious, and borne out by the remainder of your statement. You have created a derogatory "Game Manager Scale", and you indicated that Wilson and Brady are definitely on it.
Again, you continue with the Dilfer is comparable to Wilson and Brady discussion. You indicate that you've given this idea much thought, and determined that Dilfer is indeed comparable to those two HOF QBs because Wilson/Brady's teams played like the 2000 Ravens (I can't even comment on such nonsense, as that would lead to another 15+ page thread). You also imply that any team which plays great D and limits mistakes (sounds like an ESPN Sunday Morning 'game breakdown' because it is so utterly inane) must be quarterbacked by a "Game Manager", which makes no sense.
We finally get to the 'money shot'. I've already discussed this section of your statement many times, to which you have yet to respond, so I am not sure what else I can add at this point. You are saying that Dilfer has the same 'tools' as Wilson and Brady...he is as mobile as Wilson, as accurate as Brady, can equal both in terms of 'pure passing'...but what separates Wilson and Brady from Dilfer is that Wilson and Brady simply carried out their coach's gameplan better in terms of execution...in other words, to demonstrate the heights of your lunacy, they were BETTER GAME MANAGERS THAN TRENT DILFER!
Again, perhaps the dumbest football thought ever posited on CCS. And that covers a lot of territory.
Congratulations are in order.
