Ryan Pace is the best GM we've had since Jerry V

[WestCoastBearsFan]

The trade for 10 is a tough one for me, even more so when I see some Bears fans defending it like it was a great move, because essentially Pace doubled down on his QB evaluation and he was wrong. Mahomes is clearly the best QB in the class and probably in the last 5 classes and you traded up for a different guy.

Show me anybody who thought mahomes was the best QB coming out of that class and not some idiot on CCS who claims they said it but never provide proof. A professionally written article stating mahomes was better than Mitch and Watson. If we took Mahomes at 2 or even 3 this place would have collectively off’d itself. There’s also the issue that Mahomes had Alex Smith, Andy Reid, Matt Nagy, and a competent offense around him to ease the transition. Saying if we drafted mahomes we would get the same 5000 yds and 50 TD season is incredibly stupid and removes all context.

 

[run and shoot]

WindyCity said:


The trade for 10 is a tough one for me, even more so when I see some Bears fans defending it like it was a great move, because essentially Pace doubled down on his QB evaluation and he was wrong. Mahomes is clearly the best QB in the class and probably in the last 5 classes and you traded up for a different guy.

Show me anybody who thought mahomes was the best QB coming out of that class and not some idiot on CCS who claims they said it but never provide proof. A professionally written article stating mahomes was better than Mitch and Watson. If we took Mahomes at 2 or even 3 this place would have collectively off’d itself. There’s also the issue that Mahomes had Alex Smith, Andy Reid, Matt Nagy, and a competent offense around him to ease the transition. Saying if we drafted mahomes we would get the same 5000 yds and 50 TD season is incredibly stupid and removes all context.

If ya stack up both Mahomes & Watson with regard to QB draft evaluation ( as WindyCity pointed out).......they were both better than than Mitch. Watson wouda' been my choice.

But regardless of what Watson did at Clemson ( i.e. going
1-1 in the Nat'l Championship).....our Bear org. was not going to take him. Or Mahomes for that matter.

---

Saying if we drafted mahomes we would get the same 5000 yds and 50 TD season is incredibly stupid and removes all context.

Not sure if anyone is saying this.

 

[WestCoastBearsFan]

If ya stack up both Mahomes & Watson with regard to QB draft evaluation ( as WindyCity pointed out).......they were both better than than Mitch. Watson wouda' been my choice.

But regardless of what Watson did at Clemson ( i.e. going
1-1 in the Nat'l Championship).....our Bear org. was not going to take him. Or Mahomes for that matter.

---



Not sure if anyone is saying this.

Again, please show me one credible source that agrees with you that Mahomes was the better prospect than Mitch. Just one. Nobody thought mahomes was better than Mitch or Watson. Watson also had a national championship caliber team if you hadn’t noticed.

 

[jive]

There were alot of draft pundits that said that none of those 3 were NFL ready. Some even said none of them were really worthy of a #1 pick, and there was no definite #1. Trubisky only had one season as a starter, and didn't work much under center. There were doubts about Watson's abilities as a pocket passer, his accuracy, his mechanics, and whether he'd ever transition to the NFL.. Mahomes was considered a gun slinger that played in a trick offense, and that he was a system QB that wouldn't be able to repeat his gaudy numbers in the NFL.

A couple years later, lo and behold all 3 are productive in the NFL and still have room to grow. Watson has shown he can do it all. Mahomes lit it up in spite of coming from a gimmick offense. Trubisky shown that his ability to run in college translates to the pros, and that he has a strong arm. He still needs work, but the potential is there.

Trubs is the 3rd best, but that doesn't mean he can't end up as the best among them. He can run as well as Watson, throw on the run as well as Mahomes, and has similar if not better arm strength and accuracy. His issues are accuracy and mental mistakes, issues that can be overcome.

 

[Starion]

I still bear resentment to many of those meatball blowhards who were nothing but Negative Nancy salt in the wound during the shitty rebuild years.

So you resent Bear fans who want their team to win games....classic CCS.

Seriously? Way to chop off the rest of my ACTUAL post to make it read completely dumb.
Who's classic CCS now? SMH.

The rest of it...

I still bear resentment to many of those meatball blowhards who were nothing but Negative Nancy salt in the wound during the shitty rebuild years. If up to them, Bears would've won a few more games, be in cap hell hiring/keeping overpriced guys, & would've been stuck drafting mid-round in mediocrity with no plan like the Bulls.

The point I was making is the lack of logic in supporting solid moves was shitty along the way simply because the rebuild was still in progress and the wins didn't stack up YET. 2017 included 6 losses by less than 1 score and a top flight defense! Yet the pissy pansers made a long 3 years ever more shitty when it should've been more clear that things were progressing.

Efforts to point that out were often trolled and flamed. That's my only beef & it's just me ranting, so no worries. Sorry, but if that legitimately upsets you, maybe it is about you?


Too many expected a super quick turnaround when a total rebuild was needed and takes time and several drafts. Now you have it. The number of people who pissed on the rod-in-leg-Jackson & no-name-school-dwarf-Cohen picks is comical looking back.

Cheers to winning again & hopefully a happier fanbase with a wee bit more positivity & sound judgement.

 

[Starion]

Here's something interesting.....

During Finks' tenure the Bears went through a period of 4 years where they had consecutive losing records. If you were going to only base it on his record during that time, you would say he was a crappy GM, not a future HOFer. From 80-83, the Bears never went above .500. However, the Bears acquired 2 future HOFers in Singletary and Dent, and 8 All Pro players in Covert, Richardson, Duerson, Bortz, Hilgenberg, Gentry, Bell, and Wilson. We won our division 5 years in a row, and made the playoffs 7 out the next 8 years.

Personally, I'd rather sit in the cellar for a couple of years to build a great team and enjoy years of success (84-91) than the patchworks of 93-95 that gave me a decade of misery until 2004 with just one year of reprieve.

It might make sense to wait until Pace is involved in a few playoff wins b4 we "crown him"

^ This was my point then & now. Still too early to fully grade Pace until we see if this team holds for the next several years or however long his tenure lasts. Yes, Wins & Losses are the ultimate comprehensive measure, but not THE ONLY. It's a resulting stat, yet arguing & judgement tends to occur when discussing causal moves before they can fully play out to bear accurate results.

For example: If you invested in a startup, you wouldn't say it was a shitty move just because it wasn't a cash cow before the business plan is executed. So far, Pace's moves are starting to collectively bear fruit, so let's hope it continues to build & maintains with Ws!

I'm not assuming there's a correlation, as I know that's it's not a binary thing. You can certainly put up a winning record while rebuilding (Finks), sit in the cellar with no moves toward improvement (Wannstedt), and put up a winning record while slowly decimating your roster (Tobin). I have seen all those scenarios play out.

Finishing in the cellar in 2014 was before Pace. 2015 was his first year, and I'll admit he was pretty bad. His draft was bad, and his free agents were even worse. He was just throwing whoever he could agree to sign to fill the roster. 2016 gave me a glimmer of hope because I thought we had a good draft. From watching those games that year, I'm pretty sure we were tanking at the end to get a high pick in 2017. Even with a putrid record, we got 3 guys that made All Rookie that year. Of that draft class, only one guy didn't make the team. Both of those were improvements over the previous decade. But I got mad in 2017 over the trade up for Trubisky. He wasn't the best QB IMO in that class, and I didn't think we needed to trade up to get him anyway. But we wound up getting 2 All Pros in Cohen and Jackson, so that took off a little sting of what I thought was a bad draft and terrible season. And then when 2018 rolled around and saw that we were a competitive team with potential to be a dominant team, I realized that Pace quietly put together a solid team. It was further cemented when draft time came around and there weren't nearly as many glaring needs as years past.

I wasn't originally a fan of Pace, but I am now.

Rory - We both agree with this post #131. I also liked what you said that he quoted in that post. We're not so far apart dude.

This offseason and next offseason are going to tell us a lot.

The cap issues next season are a real thing and I am going to be interested to see how he navigates it and if he can replace the cap casualties that are coming in 2020.

Damn straight.

Fingers crossed for reasonable injury #s in the future. This roster looks a shit ton more able to withstand injuries, even better than last year. Jackson & Callahan & Miller f'd up really hurt in the playoffs. Depth is getting better.

 

[SiDe WaYs]

Why don’t people think Mahomes will take 2 steps back? One full season. Which was a phenomenal season. But why do people think Mahomes will be as great as season 1?

 

[KittiesKorner]

While I agree, I do think the Watson-Trubisky comparison is close enough based on last season that I doubt it would the bomb that takes down the Pace era.

I agree with the sentiment above that Pace is probably safe from the QB question at least for 3 more years, but this is always going to be an issue that we have to take up with him, unless 10 becomes a stud.

What don’t you agree with?

 

[Starion]

Why don’t people think Mahomes will take 2 steps back? One full season. Which was a phenomenal season. But why do people think Mahomes will be as great as season 1?

I honestly have no idea if he'll fall back to earth or not. He certainly surprised me. Dude came in with stellar physical tools with that arm, so time will tell if defenses figure him out.

Totally subjective, but we've all seen countless QBs kill it early as a rookie or even a backup plugged into starter, only to fall from grace in a year or less. TBD. I honestly wish the dude best....until Bears meet KC. Should be a huge prime-time buildup for that game.

Maybe Bears DEF gives Mahomes the Goff schoolin'!??

 

[run and shoot]

Again, please show me one credible source that agrees with you that Mahomes was the better prospect than Mitch. Just one. Nobody thought mahomes was better than Mitch or Watson. Watson also had a national championship caliber team if you hadn’t noticed.

Watson also had a national championship caliber team if you hadn’t noticed.

I did notice.

Did u notice how "a national championship caliber">>>> Watson single handedly, took Clemson down the field and scored winning TD against a pro-styled Alabama "D" in the NC ??? Or are u gonna strip that accomplishment away from him??
------

Mahomes was the better prospect than Mitch

Experience-wise he was better. But I'll follow-up on this again.

 

[WestCoastBearsFan]

I did notice.

Did u notice how "a national championship caliber">>>> Watson single handedly, took Clemson down the field and scored winning TD against a pro-styled Alabama "D" in the NC ??? Or are u gonna strip that accomplishment away from him??
------



Experience-wise he was better. But I'll follow-up on this again.

What the fuck does “experience wise he was better” even mean?? Are you saying more experience is the reason he was better? By that logic Eli Manning is better than Jared Goff and Carson Wentz. I’ve asked you twice now to produce a single credible article or anything of validity showing where Mahomes was ranked as a better prospect than Mitch or even Watson and you can’t because literally nobody thought he was.

Also you are really going to say Watson is a better prospect because of one drive? Do yourself a favor and think before you post. Nobody is stripping anything away from Deshaun especially not me, i am a Clemson student, but where was that one drive against Indy???

 

[Novak]

I’ve asked you twice now to produce a single credible article or anything of validity showing where Mahomes was ranked as a better prospect than Mitch or even Watson and you can’t because literally nobody thought he was.

Since you're insistent on repeating this dumb shit, here you go. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...eams-five-earn-as-and-two-fall-short-with-ds/



And another: http://insidethepylon.com/nfl/2017-...exanders-2017-nfl-draft-quarterback-rankings/




.... Do you need me to keep going, or you done?

 

[WindyCity]

Show me anybody who thought mahomes was the best QB coming out of that class and not some idiot on CCS who claims they said it but never provide proof. A professionally written article stating mahomes was better than Mitch and Watson. If we took Mahomes at 2 or even 3 this place would have collectively off’d itself. There’s also the issue that Mahomes had Alex Smith, Andy Reid, Matt Nagy, and a competent offense around him to ease the transition. Saying if we drafted mahomes we would get the same 5000 yds and 50 TD season is incredibly stupid and removes all context.

I do not think we credit Pace for doing what everyone else thought was the right move. He gets judged on results and right now the results are not in his favor.

That is not saying that cannot move into that his favor, but right now he paid more for a worse product.

 

[WindyCity]

What don’t you agree with?

Evangelical Christians

 

[WindyCity]

Why don’t people think Mahomes will take 2 steps back? One full season. Which was a phenomenal season. But why do people think Mahomes will be as great as season 1?

I think he showed tremendous talent and poise, but if he replicates last season I would be surprised. It is hard to throw 50 TDs,

 

[Rory Sparrow]

Yet the pissy pansers made a long 3 years ever more shitty when it should've been more clear that things were progressing.

Efforts to point that out were often trolled and flamed. That's my only beef & it's just me ranting, so no worries. Sorry, but if that legitimately upsets you, maybe it is about you?

Too many expected a super quick turnaround

First off, its definitely, DEFINITELY about you.

Forgive me for my continued skepticism heading into 2018 after witnessing a GM inherit a 5-11 team and going 6-10, 3-13, and then ending up back at 5-11 three years later. Not sure how it "should've been more clear that things were progressing", especially when Pace's first draft was garbage and Mike Glennon was actually the opening-day QB starter in Year 3 of a rebuild...YEAR 3!!!

 

[Rory Sparrow]

Also you are really going to say Watson is a better prospect because of one drive? Do yourself a favor and think before you post. Nobody is stripping anything away from Deshaun especially not me, i am a Clemson student, but where was that one drive against Indy???

Wow, either their admission standards have really slipped, or Felicity Huffman is your mom.

I thought the consensus was that Trubisky was the least accomplished and biggest gamble of Watson/Mahomes/Trubisky. I thought afterwards people were very surprised that both Trubisky and Mahomes went so high in the 1st round.

 

[WindyCity]

The Glennon move was a real turd.

That 18 million would have been super handy rolled forward into this season or last to eat up the big spending in free agency.

I will never get the people who say the Glennon move didn't hurt them because it was a 1 year deal. The cap is not a 1 year amount.

 

[Les Grossman]

I thought the Bears selecting Watson was a slam dunk in terms of fit. He would definitely have been there at #3, he has a gamer mentality, big game experience, and a little edge to fit into a big city market.

I think Pace out-thought himself. Watson just made too much logical sense.

 

[WindyCity]

I think Pace will get another QB if Trubisky turns out to be just a guy. I think the team he built and the coaching staff he assembled will allow that.

Having Nagy will help.

But if Trubisky being just a guy after Pace essentially tripling down on him [trade, pick, huge win now investment] then I think it would hurt him and it would not shock me to see Nagy become "the guy" in the franchise.