[A] Has the Identity of the Blackhawks Returned?

[Ton]

"Grit" lost from 2010 vs Last years numbers

Brouwer - 189 hits - Shaw 82 hits (37gms...pace for 182)

Ladd - 104 hits - Bickell 128hits (71gms)

Byfuglien - 215hits - Carcillo 72 hits (28gms..pace for 210)

Kopecky - 72 hits - Frolik 56 hits (63gms)

Eager - 51hits (60gms) or Burish - Bollig 27 hits (18gms)...Mayers 102 hits



Now Shaw and Carcillo may not have the size of Brouwer or Byfuglien...but they don't skate as well as those 2.



Kruger may be more skilled than Madden was at the end of his career...and he's not afraid to get his nose dirty.



The Defence 5/6 with Leddy/Rosival/Brookbank...is more skilled than the Sopel/Boynton/Hendry pairing



Not to mention Toews, Kane, Hjarll, Bolland being more experienced.

The only thing I agree with here is that the defense is more talented and Kruger is more skilled than Madden. Otherwise, you can't compare any of the other players. Shaw, Bickell, Frolik, and Carcillo are nothing like Kopecky, Ladd, Byfuglien, and Brouwer.



And I'm perfectly OK with that. I loved the 2010 team but things have changed. The biggest thing they lacked the last two years was having a defined role for each person on the team, so far this season I like what I see in terms of identity and having everyone on the same page.

 

[PatrickShart]

They may not have the size - but they are just as gritty/not afraid to get their nose dirty



And those 4 - Shaw, Frolik, Carcillo and Bickell have more speed than Ladd, Kopecky, Byfuglien and Brouwer



And as Bickell may be inconsistant...I remember a certain Byfuglien being lazy as all hell for long stretches.

 

[PatrickShart]

And when Hossa got laid out - Bollig went right at Torres to engage him, as did Mayers. They were "unresponsive".



I think it's ridiculous because this team didn't win the cup the last two years, they get labeled at times as not caring, lazy, under achieving, flat, not trying, etc

 

[Ton]

They may not have the size - but they are just as gritty/not afraid to get their nose dirty



And those 4 - Shaw, Frolik, Carcillo and Bickell have more speed than Ladd, Kopecky, Byfuglien and Brouwer



And as Bickell may be inconsistant...I remember a certain Byfuglien being lazy as all hell for long stretches.

Yeah, like I said it's a new look. That 2010 team wasn't slow either, but those four do have more speed but less size. Byfuglien was inconsistent but he got hot at the right times, so far Bickell hasn't really proved that he can do that.



We'll see if this is a team that can win in the playoffs -- so far they haven't. I hope that changes this year. If not Bowman might want to look at those big bodies again to help create space and take away the attention from the skilled guys.



Also don't forget Versteeg and Campbell were on those teams which provided a lot of speed.

 

[PatrickShart]

Injuries had a lot more to do with the playoff loses than size -



2010-2011- Lose in 7 to VAN -

Kopecky - out 6gms (knocked out gm 1)

Brouwer - playing with 1 shoulder

Bolland - out 3gms

Bickell - out 2gms

Seabrook - out 2 1/2gms (Scott played D for him)



Those are 4 of their top 9 forwards and their top Dman. And they plugged in a couple of 20yr olds in Kruger and Leddy..and they went to game 7 OT. I don't get how/why that is such a failure as some make it.



And Last year...in a series they dominated/carried the play in most parts -

Lost Hossa, Shaw...Toews was no where near 100%..so 2 top 6 forwards and Shaw..and they lost 5 1-goal games (all in OT). Yes, they lost the series and it sucked...but it wasn't a lack of effort, heart, being flat,no identity...I'd think those 3 100%/playing in all games and things may have been different.



Yes, it sucks they don't win the cup every year. But health has had way more to do in the playoffs than anything. It's not a coincidence that the team that wins the cup (including the Hawks in 2010)...is relatively the healthiest - especially to their key players.

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

And when Hossa got laid out - Bollig went right at Torres to engage him, as did Mayers. They were "unresponsive".



I think it's ridiculous because this team didn't win the cup the last two years, they get labeled at times as not caring, lazy, under achieving, flat, not trying, etc

For the most part I think Torres should have been jumped within 2 seconds with gloves off on that hit, Bollig was playing in his 20 something game and had to engage him, did a good job. But I wasn't talking about that hit, we did respond. Now when Seabrook was hit, they was maybe a shove...theres also been countless times were our team has just sat silent after something that usually lights a fire under a teams ass.



And pmx, I was far from ripping this team. Even if I was like many people have, there is a lot of merit to the things in bold. Also read the part where I said the expectations were way too high.

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

I can't wait till they lose one and people go into full blown panic talking about how they are just like the Bears this year....

I know I am getting excited for it.

 

[PatrickShart]

Which Seabrook hit did no one respond to?

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

Which Seabrook hit did no one respond to?

Playoffs 2011, my birthday April 17th, a year to the day before the same douche knock Hossa out.



I mean are you really gonna argue that our team has responded when a teammate goes down like most NHL clubs do? I am very aware its not the end of the world and we can still win, but in a way it speaks volumes. I was rewatching the Winter Classic and without only a lovetap our team stuck together like someone had been cheapshotted, Buff manhandled two wings, while Ladd was begging for a fight ripping away from the refs. This wasn't the dumb hockey the Canucks can get baited into, there was a definite fire, identity and chemistry on that team. That was night in and night out.

 

[PatrickShart]

How come no one on that cup team went after Ovechkin after that cheap shot on Campbell?

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

Could also add when Bourque boarded Seabrook and he was knocked out. No one laid a finger on Bourque. I watched that from 9 rows back, I wanted to jump over the boards and at least get my assed by Bourque in honor of Seabrook.



Also, why is Seabrook a magnet for cheap shots?

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

How come no one on that cup team went after Ovechkin after that cheap shot on Campbell?

That wasn't a clear cheap shot IMO, was seen as a trip. That year when Seabrook got murdered by Wiz fucking Hammer jumped Wiz right away.

 

[Tater]

Playoffs 2011, my birthday April 17th, a year to the day before the same douche knock Hossa out.



I mean are you really gonna argue that our team has responded when a teammate goes down like most NHL clubs do? I am very aware its not the end of the world and we can still win, but in a way it speaks volumes. I was rewatching the Winter Classic and without only a lovetap our team stuck together like someone had been cheapshotted, Buff manhandled two wings, while Ladd was begging for a fight ripping away from the refs. This wasn't the dumb hockey the Canucks can get baited into, there was a definite fire, identity and chemistry on that team. That was night in and night out.

Quit having birthdays, will ya.

 

[PatrickShart]

Could also add when Bourque boarded Seabrook and he was knocked out. No one laid a finger on Bourque. I watched that from 9 rows back, I wanted to jump over the boards and at least get my assed by Bourque in honor of Seabrook.



Also, why is Seabrook a magnet for cheap shots?

Playoffs 2011, my birthday April 17th, a year to the day before the same douche knock Hossa out.



I mean are you really gonna argue that our team has responded when a teammate goes down like most NHL clubs do? I am very aware its not the end of the world and we can still win, but in a way it speaks volumes. I was rewatching the Winter Classic and without only a lovetap our team stuck together like someone had been cheapshotted, Buff manhandled two wings, while Ladd was begging for a fight ripping away from the refs. This wasn't the dumb hockey the Canucks can get baited into, there was a definite fire, identity and chemistry on that team. That was night in and night out.

So there was a lovetap in the Wings game, and Buff/Ladd go crazy...Campbell is hit from behind/in serious pain...and it wasn't a clear enough cheap shot?



This team the last few years cared, stuck together...they're not going to go crazy and jump Torres in that VAN series when the refs were right there and it was a playoff game when they were down in the series. Seabrook popped right back up, the ref was standing right there, Campoli gave a shot and there was a scrum..but the players didn't "lack heart" because they don't jump people after a cheap shot

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

Also PMX, in hindsight I should have worded things different in the article. The point was not to compare this team to our our cup team at all, thats asinine. The point was to compare the fact that in order to be successful, people in every slot need to know and play their role to the absolute best.



IMO we did not have that the past two seasons no matter how many stats you pull up, you are right, this team needed a season or two to gel together, and from my standpoint that is the same as saying the have found their roles on this team. Now the stats I'd love to see are the special teams and defensive TOI, those couldn't be drawn up any better.

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

So there was a lovetap in the Wings game, and Buff/Ladd go crazy...Campbell is hit from behind/in serious pain...and it wasn't a clear enough cheap shot?



This team the last few years cared, stuck together...they're not going to go crazy and jump Torres in that VAN series when the refs were right there and it was a playoff game when they were down in the series. Seabrook popped right back up, the ref was standing right there, Campoli gave a shot and there was a scrum..but the players didn't "lack heart" because they don't jump people after a cheap shot

Please don't take one example I used and run with it like a little kid when I gave you two of many more situations, thats ridiculous. I'm not gonna sift through the countless times there was a Hawk on the ice for one reason or another and no one responded. The evidence is all over youtube, internet, or wherever.



You are missing the entire point of the article. Its not about us responding after cheap shots, which you grabbed from 10 words out of 750, its about this team seeming to have found an identity players filling into their roles. Figured one person would get butthurt by what I thought was a pretty positive thing I wrote.

 

[PatrickShart]

Dot you get all vagina hurt then hen I disagree that the team didn't played flat while in a transition mode or don't fight/stick up for one another meant they didn't care about wining



You're the one using examples that the 'cup team' was somehow more united or cared more based on a regular season GM vs DET with some scuffle while making the case these last 2 years they wouldn't do that



The last 2 years teams may not have had the depth or talent, but I've always disagreed with their drive or accusations that have made that they somehow don't care or try hard enough



And don't write or post articles either if you don't want discussions in it. Or close any comments done you won't have anyone god forbid disagree with you

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

Dot you get all vagina hurt then hen I disagree that the team didn't played flat while in a transition mode or don't fight/stick up for one another meant they didn't care about wining



You're the one using examples that the 'cup team' was somehow more united or cared more based on a regular season GM vs DET with some scuffle while making the case these last 2 years they wouldn't do that



The last 2 years teams may not have had the depth or talent, but I've always disagreed with their drive or accusations that have made that they somehow don't care or try hard enough



And don't write or post articles either if you don't want discussions in it. Or close any comments done you won't have anyone god forbid disagree with you

I'm not vagina hurt. Your arguments are just fucking ridiculous. And the point of writing them is to get more traffic and discussion around here and it succeeded, just because I argue back doesn't mean I am afraid of people critiquing my opinion.



Whats bolded sums up why I am baffled, I used one example, and you take it as if I'm some Special person who watched highlights and a handful of games the past 5 years. Not to mention I did not even compare this team to our cup team, I SAID IT ABOUT THE ENTIRE NHL. At this point I feel like I am being trolled, I mean how many times do I have to explain to you that you are missing the entire point of the article as a hole and nitpicking one sentence?

 

[PatrickShart]

You're the one that's brought up the fighting one 4 different occasions yet are baffled that I respond to them, or I'm the troll. Got it



Maybe you're missing my point. I've read for 2yrs people accuse the team of not caring or having heart...or being flat as coke - not just you're article, but for 2yrs



But now that they're 6-0, they suddenly care and thank god they're back



MY POINT - and nothing to do with one line in you're article - is the team has competed hard and may not have had the results some fans want- and probably not the players either, but they've never not cared about winning or one another because they don't go 82-0



But of course, it must be ridiculous because I disagreed with people the last 2 years in the team not caring or being lazy. I'm all hurt by what you write. It will be interesting when the lose one when Q will be an idiot again, the lines are all wrong and Stan won't make trades for imaginary people that aren't available

 

[Variable]

So there was a lovetap in the Wings game, and Buff/Ladd go crazy...Campbell is hit from behind/in serious pain...and it wasn't a clear enough cheap shot?



This team the last few years cared, stuck together...they're not going to go crazy and jump Torres in that VAN series when the refs were right there and it was a playoff game when they were down in the series. Seabrook popped right back up, the ref was standing right there, Campoli gave a shot and there was a scrum..but the players didn't "lack heart" because they don't jump people after a cheap shot

The whole idea about "not caring" is dumb to begin with. Only in the NHL.