Can we all get behind Jordan Howard now?

msadows

Well-known member
Your right, I hyperbolized his value. I will wear that.

This season showed us he is a grinder. He just doesn’t have a special skill set.
He's a good runningback, but not an elite one.

He has one elite trait, and thats vision. He benefited from the BEST interior offensive line in the NFL his first two years(with long and sitton healthy). You guys realize he had 3 probowlers blocking for him? He would constantly go untouched going into the second level only to get tackled by a safety or linebacker. Even on his breakaway runs he didn't have the speed or acceleration to take it home.

JHOW is a good back, but lets not act like the dude is elite.
 

HawkBear

CCS Donator
The Bears are not going to give someone 25 carries and have them grind out 100 yards. They are going to throw the ball 60+% of the time.

They need/want someone who can create more explosive plays because they are not going to run as many plays.

That is why Mizzell gets carries, because their is a better chance that he goes 40 than Howard. (Both are tiny percentages)
Has Mizzel EVER in the his career had a big play? Howard has at least had some 20 yarders lol
 

msadows

Well-known member
Has Mizzel EVER in the his career had a big play? Howard has at least had some 20 yarders lol
Mizell has 9 carries in his career. Ya'll acting like Nagy is having dis dude and benny take away all of jordan howards carries. lol

Dude got playtime more so on passing downs where they wanted to either give cohen a breather or use both him and cohen.
 

Midway Mitch

Well-known member
I don't know why, but he's always the first player I hear people throw around trade scenarios for, or complain about his performance, or not being a "good fit" for the offense...etc.

Can't we all just get behind the guy for once? He's done everything he's been asked to and even worked out the pass catching issues everyone was sooooo worried about last year. Like, you cannot have a back that cannot catch anymore was peoples primary reason for burning the guy, and he got it figured out in one off-season.

And quit calling him fat!
I can get behind him being backup. Bears need an upgrade at starting tailback. Need more versatility. Sorry it’s 2019.
 

WindyCity

Well-known member
We can all probably fit behind him..... because he is fat.

The title of this thread made the fat jokes too easy.
 

msadows

Well-known member
And all you fucks who say the offensive line, or the scheme, etc.

Lamar Miller had 40 less carries than Jordan Howard, and gained more yardage than him on the season behind an arguably worse offensive line. They are pretty much neck and neck in DVOA.

We can blame Nagy, the scheme, the oline as much as we want. But you should also blame Jordan Howard. He wasn't the same back he was his first 2 years.
 

msadows

Well-known member
I can get behind him being backup. Bears need an upgrade at starting tailback. Need more versatility. Sorry it’s 2019.
Ehh, I'm all for a RBBC. Sign Spencer Ware or draft someone, give Howard some first down looks, sprinkle in Ware and Cohen and 2nd and 3rd downs. Let JHOW get the hard short yardage runs. Now question is how happy will howard be getting 150 carries a year?
 

iueyedoc

Vagabond Wannabe
It's not that Nagy didn't use him, he was sixth in carries last season. It's that he was indecisive at the hole like never before and was 39th out of 49 in YPC for qualifiers. In the NFL you are what you most recently showed and he was a below average back last season, matters not whether he is a poor scheme fit or just a poor rb at this point. Great kid and I would love for him to get back to form a nd be a great Bears back, just don't see it.
 

msadows

Well-known member
It's not that Nagy didn't use him, he was sixth in carries last season. It's that he was indecisive at the hole like never before and was 39th out of 49 in YPC for qualifiers. In the NFL you are what you most recently showed and he was a below average back last season, matters not whether he is a poor scheme fit or just a poor rb at this point. Great kid and I would love for him to get back to form a nd be a great Bears back, just don't see it.
This as well, I saw him being a LOT more indecisive at hitting the hole this past year. Maybe it's because the holes werent big enough to run a fucking truck thru them like he's normally used to.
 

remydat

Well-known member
And all you fucks who say the offensive line, or the scheme, etc.

Lamar Miller had 40 less carries than Jordan Howard, and gained more yardage than him on the season behind an arguably worse offensive line. They are pretty much neck and neck in DVOA.

We can blame Nagy, the scheme, the oline as much as we want. But you should also blame Jordan Howard. He wasn't the same back he was his first 2 years.
It has been reported and admitted that a large part of the issue was Nagy switching to gap blocking. Howard is not a gap runner. He is a zone runner. Pretty simple really.
 

msadows

Well-known member
It has been reported and admitted that a large part of the issue was Nagy switching to gap blocking. Howard is not a gap runner. He is a zone runner. Pretty simple really.
Howard has one elite trait, its his vision.

We need a better running back, not to change our offense to fit an average one.
 

msadows

Well-known member
I did not day he did not use him. I said he does not WANT to use him.
Huh? 6th most carries with the 34th worst YPC? If anything Nagy shouldn't have used him as much as he did.

If he didn't WANT to use him he would have less than the 6th most carries in the NFL, guy. He had 2 less carries than his rookie year for fucks sake. The difference, once again remy, isn't Nagy, or the offensive scheme.

The difference is Jordan Howard is an average runningback who had the pleasure of running behind 3 probowl calibur interior lineman his first 2 years in the league. He ran through giant holes in that zone scheme, and went untouched into the second level. This year he had zero playmaking ability because those holes weren't there, or he failed to react to them properly.

That screams average back to me. Is he good enough? Well yea. Should we change our offensive scheme to fit his fucking skillset? FUCK NO. He won't be a bear in 2020 barring a miracle resurgence which I don't see happening. He never had an elite skillset, and this offense just made that apparent to everyone.
 

remydat

Well-known member
Howard has one elite trait, its his vision.

We need a better running back, not to change our offense to fit an average one.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-ranking-all-32-nfl-teams-through-week-7-by-zone-blocking-carries

Chiefs ran zone almost 60% of time. Of that 71% was outside zone. Bears were at 81% zone and 57% outside zone.

Nagy decided to run more gap blocking. That fucked up Howard's effectiveness. What makes the decision all the more odd is that Chiefs ran mostly zone blocking last year.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/bearswire.usatoday.com/2019/01/01/matt-nagy-jordan-howard-chicago-bears-running-back-playoffs/amp/

Howard was 4.1 on zone blocking. 2.9 on gap. Quick, which scheme dragged down his average? And why go to gap blocking when Bears and Chiefs ran mostly zone last year?

Seems Nagy tried to go to gap scheme that was poor fit for Bears. Sorry but that is what data says. Can't claim it was necessary because Chiefs O that he came from was primarily zone as well.

As I have been saying all along with Nagy, he gets too cute and/or overthinks things. Should habe stuck with what worked in Chicago anf Chiefs last year.
 

msadows

Well-known member
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-ranking-all-32-nfl-teams-through-week-7-by-zone-blocking-carries

Chiefs ran zone almost 60% of time. Of that 71% was outside zone. Bears were at 81% zone and 57% outside zone.

Nagy decided to run more gap blocking. That fucked up Howard's effectiveness. What makes the decision all the more odd is that Chiefs ran mostly zone blocking last year.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/bearswire.usatoday.com/2019/01/01/matt-nagy-jordan-howard-chicago-bears-running-back-playoffs/amp/

Howard was 4.1 on zone blocking. 2.9 on gap. Quick, which scheme dragged down his average? And why go to gap blocking when Bears and Chiefs ran mostly zone last year?

Seems Nagy tried to go to gap scheme that was poor fit for Bears. Sorry but that is what data says. Can't claim it was necessary because Chiefs O that he came from was primarily zone as well.
The link you just posted stated that Howard ran zone on nearly 60% of his carries in the first half of the season. I don't think you read the article sadly. 58.6% of his carries means he ran more zone than Gap blocking, he just wasn't good at it.
 

Midway Mitch

Well-known member
Ehh, I'm all for a RBBC. Sign Spencer Ware or draft someone, give Howard some first down looks, sprinkle in Ware and Cohen and 2nd and 3rd downs. Let JHOW get the hard short yardage runs. Now question is how happy will howard be getting 150 carries a year?
No one should be concerned about Jordan Howard’s happiness. He’s the biggest tell in the NFL. His lack of versatility literally negates Nagy’s creativeness. Then on top of it he averages under 4 YPC.
 

msadows

Well-known member
As stated previously, its a lot harder to give the defense the same exact play look running a zone scheme. I assume thats why Nagy wanted to try Gap blocking considering it gave more options in the RPO and misdirection.
 

remydat

Well-known member
Huh? 6th most carries with the 34th worst YPC? If anything Nagy shouldn't have used him as much as he did.

If he didn't WANT to use him he would have less than the 6th most carries in the NFL, guy. He had 2 less carries than his rookie year for fucks sake. The difference, once again remy, isn't Nagy, or the offensive scheme.

The difference is Jordan Howard is an average runningback who had the pleasure of running behind 3 probowl calibur interior lineman his first 2 years in the league. He ran through giant holes in that zone scheme, and went untouched into the second level. This year he had zero playmaking ability because those holes weren't there, or he failed to react to them properly.

That screams average back to me. Is he good enough? Well yea. Should we change our offensive scheme to fit his fucking skillset? FUCK NO. He won't be a bear in 2020 barring a miracle resurgence which I don't see happening. He never had an elite skillset, and this offense just made that apparent to everyone.
We shouldnt change our offense scheme to fit Howard. Nagy already knows how to run zone so it is not a departure.

And once again Howard had 4.1 YPC in zone this year. 2.9 in gap.
 

remydat

Well-known member
The link you just posted stated that Howard ran zone on nearly 60% of his carries in the first half of the season. I don't think you read the article sadly. 58.6% of his carries means he ran more zone than Gap blocking, he just wasn't good at it.
Yes which because it was lower than 81% from last year depressed his numbers as he had a terrible 2.9 YPC on gap.
 
Top