I already said he wasn't a bust. Can you not read? Gonzalez was on IR...cool! Guys on IR are carrying the franchise, not Manning!
Its nonsense because I already posted the exact same thing, and you keep repeating it as if it negates my point. What is wrong with you? Is a WR who "almost reached" (LOL) 1000 yards producing at an elite level? Of course not. Wayne produced at an elite level with Manning, he was merely above-average without Manning.
Austin Collie "played a vital role" in Manning's success??????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AUSTIN COLLIE???????????!!!!!!!!!!!
I will make a perma-ban bet with you. When Peyton Manning gets enshrined (assuming the HOF selectors overlook the fact that he choked in the postseason and was a product of great teammates), I will bet you that Peyton Manning does not mention Austin Collie's name in his acceptance speech.
My point, obviously, was that Garcon and Collie were better than Gonzalez, which admittedly isn't saying much. It is amazing to wonder how different Peyton Manning's NFL career would have been had Austin Collie not pitched in with 1845 receiving yards in his 4 years with the Colts.
Good stuff. Tell me which QB in NFL history didn't get help from decent to HOF players supporting him. I guess there is Donovan McNabb, who got no help from anyone and when he left the team, the offense 'miraculously' got better. I also wonder if there are QBs who had lots of help from bad to terrible players, like how Brett Favre got a 1000-yard season from Bill Schroeder while handing off to Samkon Gado.
Good to know that (bolded by you for no apparent reason) the idea and/or point to this conversation was that at various times during his NFL career, Peyton Manning had other players who ran the ball and caught the ball.
I guess it's "nonsense" that Gonzalez was on IR. So no he wasn't a
bust.
You said:
I already said he wasn't a bust. Can you not read? Gonzalez was on IR...cool! Guys on IR are carrying the franchise, not Manning!
I Say:
My point was overall you were belittling the guy. You made it seem like his whole career was garbage. But you never mentioned how being on IR might've effected his career.
So that's what I was alluding too. Yes, we can agree he wasn't a bust. Thanks.
run and shoot said:
I guess it's "nonsense" that Reggie Wayne
almost reached 1000yds, working with 3 slug Qb's.
Its nonsense because I already posted the exact same thing, and you keep repeating it as if it negates my point. What is wrong with you? Is a WR who "almost reached" (LOL) 1000 yards producing at an elite level? Of course not. Wayne produced at an elite level with Manning, he was merely above-average without Manning.
You originally said.......
Rory Sparrow said:
****I think Harrison and Wayne would have been
above-average WRs had they played on another team,****
but
Manning made them elite.
Then here's what I said...
I have to respectfully disagree. Harrison is HOF, and Wayne was a excellent, smart wr. Many Qb's woulda gave their non-throwing arm to have wr's like Harrison & Wayne.
Look where they were drafted ( they were totally expected to perform at a very high level and they did).
And you can be sure these wr's helped the running game a lot and Manning.
So stop screaming about me repeating what you didn't say. Your above statements were meant to marginalize both **Harrison and Wayne as
only being elite wr's with Manning and being above-avg. w/o him. ** Specifically Wayne.
Now my point with Wayne is that IMO,
Wayne performed like an "elite wr" by almost getting 1000yds with
3 slug Qb's. That IMO was an
"elite effort".
Of course, he would do better with a better Qb
( i.e. Manning). However, with those
3 slug Qb's, any other wr woulda' ended up with 4-500 yards
maybe.
-----------
Rory Sparrow said:
....the Colts offense exploded because his absence gave more PT to Pierre Garcon and Austin Collie (remember him?), who were much more dynamic.
I said:
Ok so if you say "the Colts offense exploded " with the absence of Gonzalez and "more PT to Pierre Garcon and Austin Collie", then that means Manning had help. Thanks for bringing these 2 wr's to my attention. I forgot about how Pierre Garcon and Austin Collie played a vital role in Manning's success.
Pardon me for not saying "
also played a vital role in Manning's success. " My overall point is Manning always had some pretty good wr's ( and at least one top wr). I see you didn't besmirch Garcon's role in helping Manning . Cool
------------
Tell me which QB in NFL history didn't get help from decent to HOF players supporting him.
Archie Manning for one. I can only imagine how well a
Russell Wilson woulda' done with wr's like Harrison and Wayne .
I'm not going to deal with the McNabb thing in this thread.