Your Expectations for Trubisky this season....

remydat

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Already went over this moments ago. Post #229 if you are scoring at home.

In coachspeak blather, when I hear "they just out-executed us", I interpret that to mean the teams were relatively equal, but one team made mistakes and the other team didn't. No one would 'surmise' that one team was clearly superior to the other, or had large advantages in certain areas. Not sure why you expect people to interpret your comments to mean the opposite of reality (although, admittedly, this would probably make sense on some level).

It is disingenuous of you to spend entire paragraphs pointing out the similarities between Dilfer and Brady, and then now say "where did I say this?". Let's recap what you said...

Here, you are allowing that Dilfer is comparable to Wilson and Brady. This is obvious, and borne out by the remainder of your statement. You have created a derogatory "Game Manager Scale", and you indicated that Wilson and Brady are definitely on it.

Again, you continue with the Dilfer is comparable to Wilson and Brady discussion. You indicate that you've given this idea much thought, and determined that Dilfer is indeed comparable to those two HOF QBs because Wilson/Brady's teams played like the 2000 Ravens (I can't even comment on such nonsense, as that would lead to another 15+ page thread). You also imply that any team which plays great D and limits mistakes (sounds like an ESPN Sunday Morning 'game breakdown' because it is so utterly inane) must be quarterbacked by a "Game Manager", which makes no sense.

We finally get to the 'money shot'. I've already discussed this section of your statement many times, to which you have yet to respond, so I am not sure what else I can add at this point. You are saying that Dilfer has the same 'tools' as Wilson and Brady...he is as mobile as Wilson, as accurate as Brady, can equal both in terms of 'pure passing'...but what separates Wilson and Brady from Dilfer is that Wilson and Brady simply carried out their coach's gameplan better in terms of execution...in other words, to demonstrate the heights of your lunacy, they were BETTER GAME MANAGERS THAN TRENT DILFER!

Again, perhaps the dumbest football thought ever posited on CCS. And that covers a lot of territory.

Congratulations are in order.

1. What you heard and what I actually said are two different things. If you use the term execute in that manner than when you use the term you are free to tell me what you meant by using the term. However, I used the term so what I meant by it governs not your interpretation of it.

2. Please cite where I spent paragraphs pointing out similarities. I don't want your interpretation of my words but the actual words I used. I said one group was on the low end of the game manager spectrum while the others obviously are on the high end. This would be like arguing I said Jamarcus Russell and Tom Brady were similar because I said Russell is on the low end of the QB scale and Brady is on the high end. That is not saying they are similar at all. Again your confusion seems to stem from you not understanding one can be a good game manager and one can be a great one. I gave you a scale and never claimed they were similar.

3. Please cite where I said Dilfer has the same tools as Wilson and Brady. Again, I don't want your interpretation of my words but the actual words I used. No where did I speak about their tools because that was not the focal point of the statement. I was referring to their ability to manage the game since we were talking about game managers. So I had no reason to be thinking about their respective tools when the point was one group executed their game manager duties much better than the other group. Not sure how you could take that statement and surmise I am talking about things that have nothing to do with the subject.

In closing, you seem to be under the mistaken impression that just because you decide to interpret my words in a stupid manner that your interpretation becomes the truth. I wrote the words. I am telling you that your interpretation of them is stupid and bears no resemblance to what I meant. If you would like to know what I meant when I said something then just ask as you continually get it wrong anytime you try to interpret, infer, imply or use any sort of critical thinking skills.
 
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Rory Sparrow

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2. Please cite where I spent paragraphs pointing out similarities. I don't want your interpretation of my words but the actual words I used.

Again, Post #229 already covered this in detail. When I quoted you in Post #229, are you implying that I edited the content of your original posting? When you say you want me to include "the actual words I used", did I not do that in Post #229? Another recap (yawn):

You said, verbatim:

They are just on the low end of the scale but doesnt mean Wilson and Brady were not game managers initially. The determination is based on how the teams played IMO which was play great D and limit mistakes. Wilson and Brady just executed better than guys like Dilfer.

Let's break down what you actually said, line by line.

They are just on the low end of the scale but doesnt mean Wilson and Brady were not game managers initially.

Here, you are allowing that Dilfer is comparable to Wilson and Brady. This is obvious, and borne out by the remainder of your statement. You have created a derogatory "Game Manager Scale", and you indicated that Wilson and Brady are definitely on it.

The determination is based on how the teams played IMO which was play great D and limit mistakes.

Again, you continue with the Dilfer is comparable to Wilson and Brady discussion. You indicate that you've given this idea much thought, and determined that Dilfer is indeed comparable to those two HOF QBs because Wilson/Brady's teams played like the 2000 Ravens (I can't even comment on such nonsense, as that would lead to another 15+ page thread). You also imply that any team which plays great D and limits mistakes (sounds like an ESPN Sunday Morning 'game breakdown' because it is so utterly inane) must be quarterbacked by a "Game Manager", which makes no sense.

Wilson and Brady just executed better than guys like Dilfer.

We finally get to the 'money shot'. I've already discussed this section of your statement many times, to which you have yet to respond, so I am not sure what else I can add at this point. You are saying that Dilfer has the same 'tools' as Wilson and Brady...he is as mobile as Wilson, as accurate as Brady, can equal both in terms of 'pure passing'...but what separates Wilson and Brady from Dilfer is that Wilson and Brady simply carried out their coach's gameplan better in terms of execution...in other words, to demonstrate the heights of your lunacy, they were BETTER GAME MANAGERS THAN TRENT DILFER!

Again, perhaps the dumbest football thought ever posited on CCS. And that covers a lot of territory.

Congratulations are in order.
 

Rory Sparrow

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This would be like arguing I said Jamarcus Russell and Tom Brady were similar because I said Russell is on the low end of the QB scale and Brady is on the high end. That is not saying they are similar at all.

First off, nice after-the-fact edit. Second, this!

"They are just on the low end of the scale but doesnt mean Wilson and Brady were not game managers initially."

Again, you are forcing a comparison between Brady and Dilfer. You allow that Brady is on the "low end of the scale" (which is Lulzworthy in itself), but also proactively add that this doesn't exclude Brady from the comparison to Dilfer. Not sure what you are confused about, since it was you who made the original posting.
 

remydat

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Again, Post #229 already covered this in detail. When I quoted you in Post #229, are you implying that I edited the content of your original posting? When you say you want me to include "the actual words I used", did I not do that in Post #229? Another recap (yawn):

You said, verbatim:

Let's break down what you actually said, line by line.

Here, you are allowing that Dilfer is comparable to Wilson and Brady. This is obvious, and borne out by the remainder of your statement. You have created a derogatory "Game Manager Scale", and you indicated that Wilson and Brady are definitely on it.

Again, you continue with the Dilfer is comparable to Wilson and Brady discussion. You indicate that you've given this idea much thought, and determined that Dilfer is indeed comparable to those two HOF QBs because Wilson/Brady's teams played like the 2000 Ravens (I can't even comment on such nonsense, as that would lead to another 15+ page thread). You also imply that any team which plays great D and limits mistakes (sounds like an ESPN Sunday Morning 'game breakdown' because it is so utterly inane) must be quarterbacked by a "Game Manager", which makes no sense.

We finally get to the 'money shot'. I've already discussed this section of your statement many times, to which you have yet to respond, so I am not sure what else I can add at this point. You are saying that Dilfer has the same 'tools' as Wilson and Brady...he is as mobile as Wilson, as accurate as Brady, can equal both in terms of 'pure passing'...but what separates Wilson and Brady from Dilfer is that Wilson and Brady simply carried out their coach's gameplan better in terms of execution...in other words, to demonstrate the heights of your lunacy, they were BETTER GAME MANAGERS THAN TRENT DILFER!

Again, perhaps the dumbest football thought ever posited on CCS. And that covers a lot of territory.

Congratulations are in order.

You can't be this stupid Rory.

They are just on the low end of the scale but doesnt mean Wilson and Brady were not game managers initially.

If a scale is 1 to 10 and one guy is on the low end of the scale with a 1 and the other guy is on the high end of the scale with a 10 then they are not comparable. So your inference here is stupid. Grading people on a scale doesn't suggest they are comparable. What would make them comparable is if they scored on the scale are similar which the above clearly suggests they are not. This would be like saying someone that scores at the low end on the IQ scale is the comparable or similar to Einstein. That is absurd.

The determination is based on how the teams played IMO which was play great D and limit mistakes.

This sentence is saying the determination of whether someone is a game manager is based on how the team plays. When NE won their SB, they relied on D and a QB who did not throw the ball for a lot of yards. (ie averaged less than 200 yards per game in more than half their games). That is what makes him a game manager. Just because he executed in that role better doesn't make him any less a game manager because the determination is based on the game plan of the team which in that first SB was obviously to rely on D and a QB who was not airing it out.

Wilson and Brady just executed better than guys like Dilfer.

This is a simple factual statement. Wilson and Brady executed their game manager role better than Dilfer. Once again this does not suggest they are similar or comparable in any facet because the previous sentence already established Dilfer was on the low end of the game manager scale which means saying Wilson and Brady was much better puts them on the high end of the scale. It is asinine to suggest people on opposite spectrums of a scale are similar or comparable.

So sorry, you have completed screwed up the interpretation here which I know is on purpose because you love stupidly interpreting things and then going on for pages pretending like it is what people meant. The correct interpretation is above so if you have something to say about that then let me know but I am no longer entertaining your dumb interpretations and you trying to pass them off as my own.
 

remydat

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First off, nice after-the-fact edit. Second, this!

"They are just on the low end of the scale but doesnt mean Wilson and Brady were not game managers initially."

Again, you are forcing a comparison between Brady and Dilfer. You allow that Brady is on the "low end of the scale" (which is Lulzworthy in itself), but also proactively add that this doesn't exclude Brady from the comparison to Dilfer. Not sure what you are confused about, since it was you who made the original posting.

Holy shit, I just realized the bullshit you tried to pull.

We definitely do.

I've listed the type of Qb's I consider game manager. Brady and Wilson never fell into those categories. Go back and take a look at some of the Qb's I listed.

I saw who you listed. They are just on the low end of the scale but doesnt mean Wilson and Brady were not game managers initially. The determination is based on how the teams played IMO which was play great D and limit mistakes. Wilson and Brady just executed better than guys like Dilfer.

You purposely excluded the first sentence. I saw who you listed was in reference to Run and Shoot listing Dilfer as a game manager. When I say they are just on the low end of scale, that is reference to who Run and Shoot listed which he said was not Brady and Wilson. The sentence is saying the guys he listed are on the low end of the game manager scale but that doesn't mean Wilson and Brady are not game managers as my point about them being much better means they are on the high end of the scale.

Again, typical Rory. You selectively pull posts and disingenuously ignore the context. Trying to suggest I was referring to Brady and Wilson as being on the low end of the scale is absurd if you read the entire exchange between Run and Shoot and I include the first sentence which establishes who they is referring to.
 
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Rory Sparrow

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Wilson and Brady executed their game manager role better than Dilfer.

Double-down on sheer stupidity.

Taken straight from my Post #185!

Also, I like how you've completely glossed over your Trent Dilfer/Tom Brady comp, which was the whole impetus for my posting. Brady completed 32 passes in his first playoff game as a game manager. In Dilfer's 4 playoff games as the Ravens game manager QB, he completed a total of 35 passes. So in one game Brady completed almost as many passes as Dilfer did in 4 games. Great comp!
 

remydat

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Double-down on sheer stupidity.

Taken straight from my Post #185!

Also, I like how you've completely glossed over your Trent Dilfer/Tom Brady comp, which was the whole impetus for my posting. Brady completed 32 passes in his first playoff game as a game manager. In Dilfer's 4 playoff games as the Ravens game manager QB, he completed a total of 35 passes. So in one game Brady completed almost as many passes as Dilfer did in 4 games. Great comp!

Hence why Dilfer is on the low end of the scale and Brady on the high end. Further the determination is not based on just one game.

Once again, in the first Super Bowl Year, Brady threw for 312, 115, and 145 yards for an average of 190 yards a game in the playoffs. He had one decent game throwing the ball and 2 games where he was sub par yards wise. Further in the one game he did throw for 312 yards, he threw the ball 52 times and managed only 16 points. It was not some great passing performance but dinking and doinking to little effect. The dude actually only had 90 yards passing before the last drive that won the Super Bowl against the Rams. He literally went over 3 and a half quarters with less than 100 yards passing.

And no this was not an anomaly like your 300 yard game. I also already pointed out that in 2001 Brady averaged 189 yards per game passing in the regular season. Is 189 yards passing the hallmark of a gunslinger? He had 8 starts where he didn't crack 200 yards so once again that is game manager stats. You are trying to cherry pick one game which was only his 2nd game in 17 starts where he cracked 300 yards. Only 3 out of 17 games did he manage over 250 yards. Not sure why you are confused that if a dude is getting 250 yards or less for 14 out of 17 starts that mostly likely he is a game manager. You can cherry pick a game or two where he threw more but the fact is he was dinking and doinking for very little yards for the majority of the season.
 

Rory Sparrow

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Hence why Dilfer is on the low end of the scale and Brady on the high end. Further the determination is not based on just one game.

Once again, in the first Super Bowl Year, Brady threw for 312, 115, and 145 yards for an average of 190 yards a game in the playoffs. He had one decent game throwing the ball and 2 games where he was sub par yards wise. Further in the one game he did throw for 312 yards, he threw the ball 52 times and managed only 16 points. It was not some great passing performance but dinking and doinking to little effect. The dude actually only had 90 yards passing before the last drive that won the Super Bowl against the Rams. He literally went over 3 and a half quarters with less than 100 yards passing.

Another course correction...now the ship is heading to "early in his career" waters...but we've been in these waters before, and I said:

OK, so when you kept referring to "early in his career" for Brady, you meant to EXCLUDE his first full season as a starter (i.e. the year he led the NFL in TDs and placed 3rd in attempts), but then skip over to subsequent years in which the Patriots made the postseason?! Makes sense.

So now, "early in Brady's career" is actually his first 3 postseason games, but one of those three games he threw a lot, so we'll ignore that game. "Early in Brady's career" is just his 2nd and 3rd postseason games...but he got hurt in his 2nd postseason game and was replaced by Bledsoe, so we should probably throw out that game, too. So, in sum, "Early in Brady's career" is just his Super Bowl against the Rams. Great stuff! But the determination is not based on just one game.

And, I hate to be a broken record, but...

Taken straight from my Post #185!

Also, I like how you've completely glossed over your Trent Dilfer/Tom Brady comp, which was the whole impetus for my posting. Brady completed 32 passes in his first playoff game as a game manager. In Dilfer's 4 playoff games as the Ravens game manager QB, he completed a total of 35 passes. So in one game Brady completed almost as many passes as Dilfer did in 4 games. Great comp!
 

remydat

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Already told you he threw for less than 200 yards in 2 out of 3 super bowls playoff runs. So no not just his first Super Bowl.
 

Rory Sparrow

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Already told you he threw for less than 200 yards in 2 out of 3 super bowls. So no not just his first Super Bowl.

OK, so when you kept referring to "early in his career" for Brady, you meant to EXCLUDE his first full season as a starter (i.e. the year he led the NFL in TDs and placed 3rd in attempts), but then skip over to subsequent years in which the Patriots made the postseason?! Makes sense.


Your postings in this thread have definitely been at the low end of the scale. And, I hate to be a broken record, but...

Taken straight from my Post #185!

Also, I like how you've completely glossed over your Trent Dilfer/Tom Brady comp, which was the whole impetus for my posting. Brady completed 32 passes in his first playoff game as a game manager. In Dilfer's 4 playoff games as the Ravens game manager QB, he completed a total of 35 passes. So in one game Brady completed almost as many passes as Dilfer did in 4 games. Great comp!
 

remydat

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Pats first 3 Super Bowl runs Brady had 7 of 9 games with 250 yards or less (237 being the high mark in those games). Great game manager. Sorry that upsets you.
 

Rory Sparrow

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Pats first 3 Super Bowl runs Brady had 7 of 9 games with 250 yards or less (237 being the high mark in those games). Great game manager. Sorry that upsets you.

OK, so when you kept referring to "early in his career" for Brady, you meant to EXCLUDE his first full season as a starter (i.e. the year he led the NFL in TDs and placed 3rd in attempts), but then skip over to subsequent years in which the Patriots made the postseason?! Makes sense.


Taken straight from my Post #185!

Also, I like how you've completely glossed over your Trent Dilfer/Tom Brady comp, which was the whole impetus for my posting. Brady completed 32 passes in his first playoff game as a game manager. In Dilfer's 4 playoff games as the Ravens game manager QB, he completed a total of 35 passes. So in one game Brady completed almost as many passes as Dilfer did in 4 games. Great comp!
 

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OK, so when you kept referring to "early in his career" for Brady, you meant to EXCLUDE his first full season as a starter (i.e. the year he led the NFL in TDs and placed 3rd in attempts), but then skip over to subsequent years in which the Patriots made the postseason?! Makes sense.


Taken straight from my Post #185!

Also, I like how you've completely glossed over your Trent Dilfer/Tom Brady comp, which was the whole impetus for my posting. Brady completed 32 passes in his first playoff game as a game manager. In Dilfer's 4 playoff games as the Ravens game manager QB, he completed a total of 35 passes. So in one game Brady completed almost as many passes as Dilfer did in 4 games. Great comp!

Who cares if he led the league in TD's. Its all about them yards. Even though game managers like Orton or Dilfer have never done that, its irrelevant
 

remydat

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Who cares if he led the league in TD's. Its all about them yards. Even though game managers like Orton or Dilfer have never done that, its irrelevant

They won 3 SBs with Brady as largely a game manager. In between they missed the playoffs when he led league in TDs. If you want to claim that in his non playoff year he was not a game manager then good for you. However in the years that matter ie SB years, he most certainly operated more as a game manager than a gunslinger.

Lol, all you are proving by this though is that early on Pats were better when Brady was a game manager and worse when he tried to air it out. Doesnt really help your point.
 

run and shoot

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I think we need to all define what or who we think is a "game manager".

As I mentioned earlier, I see Qb "game manager" as someone who u don't want to put in the position to have to win games ( or have to consistently put the team on his shoulders). No, I do not assign levels or stats to "game manager" Qb's.

LOL....to put it another way, it's like the chick ya' hang on to, until ya' can find the one ya really wanna marry ( sorry if that wasn't the best example) ?
 
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sevvy

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Hoping for more ups, and less downs. More consistently good play. Hoping for less of those overthrows that he was plagued with.

I think we'll see a more comfortable QB, which will hopefully quell some of the shit he does early in games. It always seemed like the overthrows were in q1 or q2, and after he settled down, they went away.


2.5:1 TD:INT ratio
4,000 yards
Another NFC North Title
 

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I want him to be awesome as soon as possible.

My biggest fear with Trubisky is that he'll get marginally better by contract time where we are kinda forced to throw a big contract his way, and he never becomes good enough to justify it. I don't want to keep being told every year, that this will be his year, like we got baited into with Cutler.

And as far as the contracts go...I think if he's good enough to be resigned, he's going to get a big one anyway.
I don't think they'll overpay him the way Emery did Cutler, but I agree he will command possibly more than he's worth. It's going to be a while before the Bears draft that high again and we all know what the odds of a Wilson falling into their laps in the third or a Brady in the sixth are.

There's just no way the Bears as currently constructed could pay what the market is for an elite qb without dumping a lot of talent and ending up a bad football team again.
 

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Holy shit, I just realized the bullshit you tried to pull.





You purposely excluded the first sentence. I saw who you listed was in reference to Run and Shoot listing Dilfer as a game manager. When I say they are just on the low end of scale, that is reference to who Run and Shoot listed which he said was not Brady and Wilson. The sentence is saying the guys he listed are on the low end of the game manager scale but that doesn't mean Wilson and Brady are not game managers as my point about them being much better means they are on the high end of the scale.

Again, typical Rory. You selectively pull posts and disingenuously ignore the context. Trying to suggest I was referring to Brady and Wilson as being on the low end of the scale is absurd if you read the entire exchange between Run and Shoot and I include the first sentence which establishes who they is referring to.

So for the record and to be clear. I do not consider Brady & Wilson game managers. Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Chad Pennington yes game managers. Just wanna be clear. Carry on.
 

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