- Joined:
- Sep 15, 2012
- Posts:
- 57,955
- Liked Posts:
- 37,938
Believe the issue is the zone blocking that Howard is built for doesn't quite work as well with other elements of Nagy's scheme.
msadows
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Aug 23, 2012
- Posts:
- 22,456
- Liked Posts:
- 17,189
Oh I see, you're not undervaluing him, he's just average to bad. Makes perfect sense. :bizarro:
Howard fits just fine when Nagy actually utilizes him correctly(i.e week 17). He doesn't need a new team and some special old school offense to succeed, he needs his head coach to do his job better and stop smashing his square peg into a round hole.
It's almost like you don't watch the games. Howard's decision making is fine, I'd say it's Nagy's decision making and play calling that needs to improve.
Less lead block gap:
More inside/outside zone:
The Bears don't need to desperately move on from Howard. He's perfectly suitable when Nagy utilizes him correctly and cost peanuts. Moving him just for the sake of recouping some 5th or 7th rounder seems counter productive. Utilize him correctly and enjoy that contract year production, let him leave Chicago a SB winner, then replace him in 2020 with one of the 2nd rounders.
Gotcha, so you want nagy to move on from the kansas city scheme that he wants to bring into this team and head more toward the john fox scheme we ran the last few years.
Fuck off.
The offense we ran the last 4 weeks of the season was no where near the offense we ran the first 13. It was a direct result of the bears making the playoffs and trubisky not being able to expand the playbook. After the Rams game it was evident that Mitch could easily lose us a game, so nagy went into shell mode. Nagy's solution was to try to make Howard the focal point of the offense, and newsflash, it didn't work in the playoffs.
Guess what did? When we went back to the original game plan in the 2nd half. If you want fox ball, bring back fox. Howard ain't a fucking fit in this offense, and no, nagy shouldn't adjust the fucking gameplan to fit the needs of one player.
- Joined:
- Aug 23, 2012
- Posts:
- 10,886
- Liked Posts:
- 3,538
Just trade him for a kicker
- Joined:
- Aug 20, 2012
- Posts:
- 6,570
- Liked Posts:
- 10,109
Weird I don't recall saying that... That said, if Nagy is unable to make adjustments to his play-calling and scheme without scrapping the entire thing we've got bigger problems than Jordan Howard.
Do you need a timeout to go and cool off? Why so mad?
Your hot-take here is comical. I thought it was pretty evident going into the season Mitch could easily lose us any game. Although my favorite part is the assertion that Nagy made Howard the focal point of the offense in the playoffs... yeah those 10 whole carries.. 5 in each half... quite the focal point there.. :bizarro:
Again, it's like you don't actually watch the games lol. 2 scoring drives in the 1st half, 2 scoring drives in the second half. 5 carries for Howard each half. The only adjustment I saw out of Nagy's offense was calling a few double moves. I guess in the bizarro world in which you live that equates to Nagy "scraping the entire game plan and going back to the offense we ran the first 13 weeks". :bizarro: MMmkk.
- Joined:
- Nov 27, 2014
- Posts:
- 17,674
- Liked Posts:
- 3,592
What percentage of plays in which Howard was in were run plays to Howard? Answer this question and you will find the heart of the Problem. He is the equivalent of being 3rd and long as far as telegraphing intent to the defense.
- Joined:
- Aug 10, 2013
- Posts:
- 34,193
- Liked Posts:
- 34,252
- Location:
- Cumming
Oh I see, you're not undervaluing him, he's just average to bad. Makes perfect sense. :bizarro:
Howard fits just fine when Nagy actually utilizes him correctly(i.e week 17). He doesn't need a new team and some special old school offense to succeed, he needs his head coach to do his job better and stop smashing his square peg into a round hole.
It's almost like you don't watch the games. Howard's decision making is fine, I'd say it's Nagy's decision making and play calling that needs to improve.
Less lead block gap:
More inside/outside zone:
The Bears don't need to desperately move on from Howard. He's perfectly suitable when Nagy utilizes him correctly and cost peanuts. Moving him just for the sake of recouping some 5th or 7th rounder seems counter productive. Utilize him correctly and enjoy that contract year production, let him leave Chicago a SB winner, then replace him in 2020 with one of the 2nd rounders.
What's funny with the Vikings run play is that if Howard had accerelation, that's a TD. By your own video, you proved he doesn't have that home run threat. Dozens of RB's can make that a 42yd run when given holes like that.
- Joined:
- Sep 15, 2012
- Posts:
- 57,955
- Liked Posts:
- 37,938
231 pass snaps and 269 run snaps. Pass blocked 96 times and run blocked 50 times. So not really telegraphing in the manner you describe.
Think the telegraphing is more from how team blocks.
- Joined:
- Sep 15, 2012
- Posts:
- 57,955
- Liked Posts:
- 37,938
Dozens of RBs also dont make the cut that springs them in first place.
- Joined:
- Aug 13, 2010
- Posts:
- 2,085
- Liked Posts:
- 1,783
A 4th round pick minimum. He was drafted as a 5th rnd pick, he is still young, still under his rookie contract & has had like the 3rd most yards of the RBs in his draft class. So there is no way that his value has not increased from a 5th rnd pick.
dennehy
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Dec 29, 2015
- Posts:
- 11,041
- Liked Posts:
- 12,382
- Location:
- Jewels to get a case of Squirt
Except those things are sunk costs. If he fits, great. If not, it doesn't matter what he did his first couple years here.
If you look at it moving forward, Howard will be gone after this year (or will get paid, but very likely gone) and the pick you get will be cost controlled for 4 years.
- Joined:
- Aug 13, 2010
- Posts:
- 2,085
- Liked Posts:
- 1,783
Without a replacement why would the Bears trade Howard for the same 5th rnd draft pick (for a player who may not succeed)? Howard still has value, is a durable RB & can still run the ball (can still rush for 1K a yr). He is just not a good fit for Nagy’s offense but he is still a good NFL RB. It makes nosense for the Bears to trade Howard for a 5th rnd pick. You might as well keep him 1 more year & get a comp pick before trading him away this year for a 5th.
Visionman
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Aug 28, 2017
- Posts:
- 7,995
- Liked Posts:
- 4,451
Yes, bad RBs don't make that cut. But any halfway decent one can. And most halfway decent RBs have more acceleration and better top end speed than Howard...
dennehy
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Dec 29, 2015
- Posts:
- 11,041
- Liked Posts:
- 12,382
- Location:
- Jewels to get a case of Squirt
Well for one you can likely replace him without a huge investment and with a player who fits the system better plus a draft pick. I'm not sure I'd say Howard succeeded this year, although he was alright towards the end of the season.
And I doubt Howard would get you a fifth round comp pick. He really only fits a very specific style of offense and doesn't present a receiving threat.
- Joined:
- Aug 20, 2012
- Posts:
- 6,570
- Liked Posts:
- 10,109
What's funny is you completely missing the point. That gif wasn't trying to prove he's a home run threat. It's about what blocking and run calls play to his strengths as a player. Again, it's on Nagy to put his players in positions to succeed. I'm not sure why it's so hard for people to admit Nagy could of done a better job handling Howard this year. It's also kinda of funny how people dog Howard for not being a "home run threat" like they're upset he doesn't take every run for 6 like they do in Madden. Probably don't even realize that 42 yarder was longer than any run the "home run threat" Cohen had this year.
Look I get people are upset with his dip in production but that's on Nagy. Might as well enjoy his contract year production you're paying him peanuts for while he plays for someone else to overpay him next year. I don't know what the big rush is to throw the guy out of town.
Les Grossman
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Jun 22, 2011
- Posts:
- 13,924
- Liked Posts:
- 12,689
I think people just assume Nagy isn’t utilizing Howard correctly because he is stubborn, which isn’t the case. There’s a reason, and it’s because Nagy wants all his plays to look the same, kinda like the Rams do. That way teams don’t know if it’s a run, pass, play action, sweep, whatever. I think the zone blocking scheme prevents that. It takes away from the passing game advantage Nagy wants to run.
Sculpt
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Aug 20, 2012
- Posts:
- 8,568
- Liked Posts:
- 2,925
Maybe Nagy has decided to go zone blocking and embrace Howard's vision rushing, and trade talk is silly.
Howard basically hit three 1000 yd yrs in a row without injury, very durable. He's a fine pass and run blocker, good vision, runs with power, decent hands. Excellent character and will do whatever is asked. With 1 yr left on his rookie, I think he's worth a 4th. And if the right team is ready for him in 2019, maybe a zone blocking team, he could fetch a 3rd. If that perfect team isn't there, and Pace sees a lot of 2019 draft backs, or FAs that he likes, than you could settle, minimum, for a 5th. But otherwise you keep him and make him work.
Sculpt
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Aug 20, 2012
- Posts:
- 8,568
- Liked Posts:
- 2,925
Sounds good to me. I don't know if that's true. Certainly after the snap, zone blocking can be identified, can it be before snap? I'm not so sure.
Obviously Nagy didn't integrate zone blocking throughout most year. But one might argue Nagy can make his offense even more diverse, unpredictable and make the plays look the same while employing zone blocking. I don't doubt it's easier to have the OL pass blocking while opening a hole for the RB to run through, as compared to zone blocking, but it's not like the OL can't attack the defense and still have the QB throw the ball. The concept of incorporate and disguise doesn't change.
- Joined:
- Oct 7, 2011
- Posts:
- 20,671
- Liked Posts:
- 19,672
- Location:
- Dongbears is thee worst!
My favorite teams
I dont think he is disgruntled. We would hear about it in this great, social media age we live in.
Probie2429
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Nov 20, 2013
- Posts:
- 3,703
- Liked Posts:
- 2,350
4th round pick should be doable. If Nagy can't find a way to use him more effectively, you need to churn the asset into a draft pick.
msadows
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Aug 23, 2012
- Posts:
- 22,456
- Liked Posts:
- 17,189
the same zone play may appear different nearly every time it is run, making a complementary set of plays difficult to execute as the defense doesn’t repeatedly face the same post-snap motion. This limits the capability to execute complementing runs as well as the play-action passing game, a drawback that should not be underestimated.
A lot of it has to do with what he is trying to do to compliment the run game. I assume he prefers gap blocking for his RPO's and bubble screens too.
Members online NOW
- Member
- Admin
- Mod
- Donor
- HOF
- 46FEVER
- Applefan
- Aquineas
- AuCN
- bamainatlanta
- baredown
- bear4life21
- bears26
- bearsfan1977
- Bearsfan7954
- Beast15
- BigTom
- Black Rainbow
- BradyJay
- Butkus34
- ChicagoBearsSinceBirth
- Chicoman
- Chief Walking Stick
- chislappy
- Collins77
- ColumbusRod
- Da Coach
- DaBears3434
- dayn44
- DBCOOPER
- Dead man walking
- dentfan
- didshereallysaythat
- Dumpster Fire
- EMAN
- Fudrucker212
- gallagher
- Grendel2000
- HearshotKDS
- hojkin
- howler62
- hyatt151
- I Just Want To Read
- IBleedBearsBlood
- Insidiuz
- jbunch14
- jodeci77
- jsu34
- JUSTFINGWIN
- lennybrisco
- Les Grossman
- MikeDitkaPolishSausage
- mikeyk
- modo
- Natedogg8023
- ndgt10
- owenby83
- PickSix
- RandomGuy
- Rawk
- remydat
- Rise
- Runruffshod75
- Sculpt
- SlickWilly
- TerryF
- Texas Bear Fan
- TezMaKai
- thenewguy
- TH_Bearfan
- TL1961
- Toast88
- Weedlove
- Wild_x_Card
- ytsejam
- ZOMBIE@CTESPN
Staff online NOW
-
bamainatlantaYou wake him up, you keep him up
