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Thats what an enormous ego who wanted to prove to the world he could do it again starting completely from scratch does.
Hoodey
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Funny too because the 2016 bobcats pick was gonna be one of our franchise saviors. The real tragedy of tyrus is multi-faceted..
1. Aldridge isn't a franchise defining talent either or close to it.. Not if you want a ring? Aldridge and rose? Great... But it doesn't work that way. Aldridge likely takes you out of a shot for rose.
2. It allows the mediocre loving fans to fold their arms and say "see don't try..."
3. It allows pax to not try. He never took a risk with another pick. Not a big swing transaction since
Hoodey
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People will never realize how much.
Without rose Paxsons base never could have held off the rest of the city. It would have gotten UGLY
Hoodey
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And the 1987 draft alone was better than the sum of anything Paxson ever did.
Was it telander who talked about how Krause would be viewed if he looked like Robert Redford?
And where does a lot of Krause hate come from (and no, I'm not saying he did a good job from 99-03) ... Jordan. Every transaction the bulls made cause of Jordan's desires in the late 80s sucked and everything jordan was mad that Krause did (Oakley for Cartwright) was good..
The bobcats are what mjs supporting cast would have been if mj got his way...
cjswan232482
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I'm still pissed about that trade. I knew it was a mistake when I found out Tyrus was smaller than Luol Deng. I remember clearly that Paxson was getting hammered for choosing always basketball players over athleticism. Paxson chose the wrong time to reach.
houheffna
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I am surprised nobody mentioned this....supposedly Aldridge went out to dinner with Pax, Skiles and the Bulls' FO. For the whole dinner, Skiles just stared at Aldridge, like really intense. Aldridge felt uncomfortable and wouldn't stare back...
So Skiles didn't want him.
Sad but true.
So Skiles didn't want him.
Sad but true.
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Source for those who are curious: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...150196_1_bulls-scott-skiles-lamarcus-aldridge
(Article is from before the draft)
Jerry Cortez211
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lol, what a freak
ChettheJet
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That's number one in my book. What in God's name was Krause thinking to draft not one but 2 high school players? One that couldn't play offense and one that couldn't play defense. Either of them paired with Brand would have been a formidable front court for 10 years. And although not the player he was then, Brand is still in the NBA and was a more consistent and productive player than either of the other 2 even with Chandler being a part but hardly the leader of 1 championship team.
People always misinterpret the Thomas Aldridge trade. It was a choice of wanting Thomas over Aldridge before the draft, a very wrong one then and proved now, and then making the trade to get the guy they wanted at a lower pick and getting something for the effort. I will say that the benefit that comes out of that trade is that Paxson learned something and has since begun drafting juniors and seniors who played on championship level teams. The Bulls have become at least one team the doesn't draft on highlights and flash that just don't seem to relate to playing NBA basketball.
Hoodey
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You don't get it.
Jordan the PLAYER was the greatest ever. What I'm saying is that if you go back and look at some of the late 80s acquisitions that JORDAN pushed the organization to make, acquisitions like freaking Charles Davis, he should have stuck to playing..
And even with Jordan, which people like to act was the only reason Krause built a title team... Riddle me this.
Name all of the transactions where a GM turned an 8th pick and a future first into scottie pippen! Name them! Has Paxson done anything close to that? Where would this franchise be if Paxson could go out and get you scottie pippen for an 8th pick and future first, Horace grant with what the 18th pick, rodman for will Perdue??
Do this... Replace jordan with Clyde drexler, whom I'd struggle to call a top 20 player ever ... Replace him with Reggie miller! Any SG who is where a healthy rose would be in terms of peak ability... Grant, pippen, Armstrong + miller or drexler INSTEAD OF JORDAN = 0 rings in 11 years like Paxson??
Axl Rose
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the fuck is wrong with him
Hoodey
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You have to make things analogous. Is it fair to Krause to say "I will take away your BEST player, give you ZERO in return, and expect you to win" .. which is what you're doing..?
Krause couldn't win a ring if he lost Jordan with ZERO in return just like Auerbach couldn't lose Russell for ZERO in return and West couldn't have lost the Diesel for ZERO in return.
Do you really think RC Buford is losing Duncan for... drum roll.. f-ing nobody in return and winning a ring?
What you do is make the situation analogous...
Krause inherited Jordan through no merit of his own. He was already on the team when Krause joined the Bulls as GM. JUST LIKE... Paxson had a 1.7% chance at Rose and totally lucked into that situation. So, we start with...
Team "Krause that had nothing to do with Krause's GM skill"
SG Michael Jordan
Team "Paxson that had absolutely f-ing nothing to do with Paxson's GM skill"
PG Derrick Rose
So, now that we've actually made things even and not started with the idea that, "hey, Jerry, because I want a certain result since after all, you are FAT.. you lose Michael for nothing and now must prove your worth" (LOL).. let's take a look at what each GM did to surround the one superstar that had nothing to do with their actual skill as a GM.
Krause -
Acquired Scottie Pippen, roughly the 25th-30th best player ever.. with an 8th pick and a future first. I ask you this.. name me the better players in NBA HISTORY that have been acquired with a pick 8 or lower?
Paxson -
His best non-luck acquisition appears to be Joakim Noah. In fact, a perfect comparison would be this years team v. the 94 Bulls... the 94 Bulls lost Michael Jordan, the best player ever, and had to scrap to replace him with Pete freaking Myers. This years team lost Derrick Rose.
The 94 Bulls won 55 games and took the eventual Eastern Finalist Knicks to 7 games. If not for Hugh Hollins, the Bulls likely beat New York in 6 and head on to defeat the Pacers before going into an all out war with the Houston Rockets... who likely would have just overwhelmed Chicago because of the stark advantage Olajuwon would have had on Bill Cartwright, Scott Williams and Luc Longley.
Now, let me just promise you this... you can like the Bulls; heck, I haven't followed your posts; maybe you hate where this organization is going for all I know.
Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant would have just embarrassed this team and Scottie Pippen would be telling the entire team all about it while Horace did every funny stupid dance you could ever imagine on a basketball court prior to the complete seizures of Fatty Walker in Boston.
Pippen - Better than any player Paxson ever has or ever will acquire without lucking into a #1 pick in a great draft (and he was also better than Rose, just so you know)
Grant - Krause's SECOND best draftee ever.. is STILL a player I'd take over Joakim Noah. It's close and probably a matter of preference, but Paxson's best acquisitions are probably more in Horace Grant's league than Scottie Pippen.
Rodman - For my money, because of his age, Krause's third best acquisition (the league was much weaker when Dennis joined the Bulls.. unlike Grant's Bulls prime when the two time world champion Pistons, who were not old yet in 1992 were a damn 5th seed!)... would you really take Noah in a slam dunk over Rodman?
Look, I can frame Jerry Krause accurately because I don't emotionally tie myself to anyone. Everything is merit based. Take my like for DeMarcus Cousins.. I happen to think he's as big of a douche personally as a lot of people here do.. but the Bulls need to convert "try hard" into SOME "shoot for the ceiling" talent risk. If they already had Jordan and Pippen, of course I'd want Noah over Cousins, but that's not the case.
Krause was overbearing, but as long as he had a superstar he could find big time talent. He's as good as anyone .. as good as Jack McCloskey, West, Auerbach at getting superstar talent or damn near it without needing a top 3-4 pick in a top draft (see.. McCloskey getting Dumars for like a 15th pick and Rodman in the 2nd round). As good as he was from 86 to 98, he was equally bad from 99-03. But.. it's the same defense that was an ACCURATE defense of Paxson before he got Rose.. NO GM WINS WITHOUT A SUPERSTAR.
Believe it or not, Krause did the right THING from 99-03, he just went way overboard and handled it poorly. When you don't have a superstar, you tank, you stockpile cap room and you wait to get a superstar.. sometimes you wait forever like the Clippers who still haven't gotten one I'd say you build around for TITLES... but trying to build title teams without a legit superstar is fruitless. BEST CASE scenario? In between a slew of titles won by superstars.. you get ONE year where the Lakers implode because Kobe hates Shaq, Karl Malone blows his knee out in the playoffs and you get Rasheed Wallace for NOTHING.. that's your BEST shot.
Believe it or not I have no predisposition to hate Paxson. Before he was GM my biggest memory was him just drowning the Lakers with jumper after jumper in 1991 and then of course the three v. Phoenix. My hatred has everything to do with his actions that feed short-sighted fans who are in it to watch a team that "plays their way" more than a winner.
cjswan232482
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Don't forget how the NBA conveniently changed the rules including introducing the salary cap on Krause, making it harder to replace talent by outbidding them.
2323
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Glad someone finally mentioned the trading of Brand but I thought it was for Chandler. Either way, trading an all star caliber player for someone who wasn't likely going to be good until his contract expired was extremely dumb. Fir this reason, I'd have to place this trade well above Aldridge-Thomas.
Hoodey
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Chandler has been a better player than brand though. Better as a garbage time stat grabber? No. As a player? You could argue he was the second best talent on the world champion mavs in terms of players in their prime.
Or did you think Lebron f-ing James averaged 18 PPG because the paint was wide open...
Hoodey
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Elton brand, joakim Noah rah rah rah... Reminds me of the Jordan years when we constantly had to hear about Sloan and love etc
RunRunRunPunt
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The worst trade was Mercer,Artest,Miller,Ollie for Travis Best,Jalen Rose and Norman Richardson
sicko
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won't argue that but at the time it really did not seem all that bad especially if you seen Tyrus at LSU at the time
I don't think anybody thought Glen Davis would end up being more successful in the NBA than Tyrus Thomas...Oh Well nothing we can do about it now
I don't think anybody thought Glen Davis would end up being more successful in the NBA than Tyrus Thomas...Oh Well nothing we can do about it now
bossfan23
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Was reading through this thread surprised nobody had mentioned this one yet. Was just about to post it when I noticed you did two posts above.
Outside of LMA/Tyrus this one ranks right up there at the top.
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