Breaking Down the Defense - What We Need to Fix

botfly10 said:

fun with ms paint

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Runruffshod75 said:

I don't like anything about Wootton at three, Collins playing one/shade & Peppers on the wide 9 with two safeties deep. That's insane, especially when you don't have tackle machines like Briggs & Ulacher capable of keying in on their gaps/shedding blocks in a Wide 9 formation vs the run. I wouldn't mind this as much out of a 3 deep coverage with the SS in the box but this nuts. It's too wide open to easy to read with old defenders, like Peppers too far apart on the 9. I'd also rather have a bigger, more powerful one/shade. I would have rather seen more of a basic 4-3 under with this personnel, especially with a smaller front with Wootton at the 3-Tech & Collins at the 1-Shade, they're going to get blown off the LOS too easy in wide 9 with little to no support from journeymen LB's(not counting Briggs), & DB's in a bland coverage scheme.

I understand there were injuries but IMO that should have been enough change things up a bit & if they wanted to get creative instead of spreading old & banged up personnel thin in a wide 9 maybe pull the SS into the box, or blitz the LB's a bit more. Spreading everyone out with two deep & no disguise in the coverage/secondary at all, & a QB with history of getting the ball out quick & picking apart opposing defenses is a recipe for a disaster.

When Lovie & Marinellie was the DC & successful with this very same personnel you'd hear opposing QB's, like Peyton Manning, from time to time, talk about how to attack their defense. The first thing first thing they said every time was to spread them out first & foremost in order to run the ball & pass over the middle. Thankfully for the Bears opponents, like the Saints in this instance, Tucker implemented plays & formations like the wide 9 that took care of that for their opponents.

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Mongo_76 said:

Well written post.

Agree with all of it.

One thing to note though, he was using this formation when we were completely healthy. He didn't "adjust" to injuries.

This is why in weeks one and two, when people were criticizing Melton for not playing well "even though we're still using Lovies Defense", I kept screaming how Marielli never put his DE's in a Wide 9.

And while Marinelli did go to cover-3 at times, it was usually disguised. He would show cover 2 and then move the SS up late in the count.

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Menchifus said:

I appreciate the breakdown of the play. It is a welcome change of pace from the typical general bashing (trolling) on these boards.

I don't really think there's a big problem with the read-and-react methodology. Especially with the increasing number of read-option teams out there, it pays to figure out where the ball is going first before attacking. Having said that, I do prefer a more aggressive personality with our defense.

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With our vastly improved DLine, I have a feeling things will be much different this year. What we saw in Game 3 of the preseason is not exactly what we'll see in the season.

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The problem with the Bears using the read-and-react methodology is that we don't have players fast enough to react anymore. Even in this particular play, we still could have stopped the ball. The problem was not one single Bears player won his individual battle. Peppers got stood up. Yes, he was playing Wide-9 contain but with a head of steam a younger Peppers would've at least pushed the tackle back a couple of steps. Frey got blocked by the WR (I have no idea how that WR got the inside position on him.) Anderson got stuffed by the guard and Briggs was too late on his react.

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With the depressing outlook most have regarding the defense this season, I do have one thing to look forward to. It can't be worse than last season.

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rawdawg said:

Wide 9 isn't very effective with 290lb DEs. Its for guys like Aldon Smith who are undersized and athletic to give the OTs further to go to reach their block.

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Mongo_76 said:

It was the only alignment that Shea was able to get any pressure from (to add to your point).

He was horrible at pad-level battles.

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Mongo_76 said:

Well written post.

Agree with all of it.

One thing to note though, he was using this formation when we were completely healthy. He didn't "adjust" to injuries.

This is why in weeks one and two, when people were criticizing Melton for not playing well "even though we're still using Lovies Defense", I kept screaming how Marielli never put his DE's in a Wide 9.

And while Marinelli did go to cover-3 at times, it was usually disguised. He would show cover 2 and then move the SS up late in the count.

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Mongo_76 said:

Well written post.

Agree with all of it.

One thing to note though, he was using this formation when we were completely healthy. He didn't "adjust" to injuries.

This is why in weeks one and two, when people were criticizing Melton for not playing well "even though we're still using Lovies Defense", I kept screaming how Marielli never put his DE's in a Wide 9.

And while Marinelli did go to cover-3 at times, it was usually disguised. He would show cover 2 and then move the SS up late in the count.[/QUOTE]

And they did this very well too...See Bears at Eagles 2011 for perfect coverage disguises from a 2 deep to a 3 deep & replays of them from the commentators.

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Mongo_76 said:

There are 2 things that I have been especially critical of when evaluating Tucker's defenses.

1) Pre-snap Play call and alignment

2) Read-react mentality he preaches


Instead of just bitching about it, let's break down a play from when the Bears were healthy, the D players did (essentially) everything right, and we still got gashed for 6 yards on a run.


First down. In the first image (below) you can see we are in a relatively typical pre-snap cover 2, nickel formation. The offense is strong right, split left in a 3-wide set. And it's the Saints... This is a formation they can go either way with. Brees called the play in the huddle, but can easily audible at the line without changing the formation.

In the next image (below) you see the formation from a goal post cam. The one thing that should stand out to you is where Peppers is lined up. He's essentially playing the wide 9 leaving a huge gap between the T and the G. Anderson has that B-gap responsibility. Peppers has containment responsibility. I am a strong opponent of the wide-9. We have seen Forte and the Bears repeatedly gash the Lions - who used this dline alignment.

In the next image, you see the gap get exposed. Brees hands off and the offense simply runs a basic blast. The guard doubles down on our 1 technique and While you would like Peppers to bull the Tackle into that gap, the truth is he was never in this play due to his pre-snap set. Even though Anderson will hit the correct gap, he is playing read/react (as is Briggs). They have to not only respect the strong side run, they have to respect the play-action.

As the LB's were playing "read/react" Anderson is late to the hole. While some will blame him for this, you shouldn't. This is exactly what Tucker's scheme preaches. The guard, now releases from the double team on Collins and and shifts to engage Anderson.

Now, keep in mind we were in a 2-deep Safety set. Neither is in position to help out. Briggs and our Nickel (I believe it's Frey) begin to close in.

Anderson is easily taken out by the Guard. The gap is still a good 4 yards wide between our defensive players. Briggs is, at this point, the only player who can make the tackle. Unfortunately, this can't happen until a hefty 1st down, 6-yard gain.

6 yards on a first down run is unacceptable. This gives the O carte Blanche on 2nd down.


Now, the one thing that I will give you is that I saw this exact same play run by the Eagles with McCoy against this exact same formation when Briggs was just back from injury. The difference is that it went for 19 yards instead of 6.

But in both cases, it was the defensive play call and read/react mentality on 1st and 2nd down that hurt.

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Menchifus said:

I appreciate the breakdown of the play. It is a welcome change of pace from the typical general bashing (trolling) on these boards.

I don't really think there's a big problem with the read-and-react methodology. Especially with the increasing number of read-option teams out there, it pays to figure out where the ball is going first before attacking. Having said that, I do prefer a more aggressive personality with our defense. With our vastly improved DLine, I have a feeling things will be much different this year. What we saw in Game 3 of the preseason is not exactly what we'll see in the season.

The problem with the Bears using the read-and-react methodology is that we don't have players fast enough to react anymore. Even in this particular play, we still could have stopped the ball. The problem was not one single Bears player won his individual battle. Peppers got stood up. Yes, he was playing Wide-9 contain but with a head of steam a younger Peppers would've at least pushed the tackle back a couple of steps. Frey got blocked by the WR (I have no idea how that WR got the inside position on him.) Anderson got stuffed by the guard and Briggs was too late on his react.

With the depressing outlook most have regarding the defense this season, I do have one thing to look forward to. It can't be worse than last season.

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rawdawg said:

Yep. The best thing a coordinator can do is adjust to his strengths and personnel. Tucker failed miserably at that. The players sucked, but they weren't put in the best situation.

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Bearman 43 said:

This is from Scout msbs,and it sums up my feelings.



Muntz wrote: I have this crazy notion that Tucker gets fired before the season is done and Pasqualoni takes over as interim DC. That's how bad I feel Tucker is. In all likelihood he will stick around this year and then get his pink slip after the season.
Muntz, I hope you're wrong only because the D will need to really suck for Tucker to get canned mid-season. Unfortunately, I wouldn't be surprised if Tucker leads the D to major suckage once again. I just have no confidence in the guy's abilities. Pasqualoni would be a hell of a nice fallback position, though. In fact, the only thing that gives me any glimmer of hope that the D won't suck this year are the upgraded staff of assistants we brought in to clean up last year's dumpster fire.

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BearsFan51 said:

I don't want to turn this into an insult directed at you but my opinion on your compliment on the read and react being able to better defend the read option is completely opposite of your. To stop the read option you want to attack the mesh point of the hand off between QB and RB rather then allow them to watch what your players are doing. Each player is supposed to read their first key then attack. If their first key is a handoff to the RB then they're supposed react and attack that ball carrier.

As an example I don't know if you recall the Auburn/Oregon national championship game of a few years ago, Auburn shut down Oregon's read option because Nick Fairley was able to effect the mesh point by attacking up the field. Attacking the gaps of a zone blocking scheme is the most effective tool to slow that rushing attack down. If you're forcing the back to make his cut in the backfield rather than at the LOS you're playing winning football. Speedy DTs attacking through the gaps is the most effective way to stop read option zone blocking. Get that ball carrier to commit before he's ready, don't play laterally and hope he makes a mistake, get him to commit to a mistake early.

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Runruffshod75 said:

This right here. This is exactly why I was hoping the Bears would have really put a heavier emphasis on carrying 5 DT's & getting a big powerful DT like DaQuan Jones who stands at 6'4" & weighs in at 320 LBs, is very athletic for his size & plays like a wreaking ball. Not only did he appear to have the size & power to play as a 2 gap NT, he has the speed & agility to attack as a 1 gap shade or 3-Tech vs zone blocking Centers which a lot of team using these days. It's not just Kromers blocking scheme & everyone else anymore, a lot of teams are running inside & outside zone blocking. You need to have a Shade or a Nose that can attack zone blocking on the interior A gap. IMO you need 5 DT's in this day & age of up tempo zone blocking offenses that wear linemen out.

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BearsFan51 said:

Bingo and it's why at times you see flashes from Fairley when he wants to play and why a guy like Marcel Dareus excels in Buffalo. It's about finding well rounded defensive tackles, athletes with size and power. Paea is close to it when he's healthy because he can win with speed and explosion to go with his immense power. Obviously he's not in the speed range of Melton, Tommie Harris and Geno Atkins, but he's fat enough to get the job done.

Then of course what makes Atkins so special is he's learned to turn his speed into power because he wins the leverage battle with his speed. That's a quality about Houston that. I thought or think could make him an All-Pro DT. That ability to generate power from his,speed and explosion and not just raw weight room strength.

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