Scott Skiles Comments on Ben Gordon....GOOD STUFF

Bucks coach Scott Skiles was on the bench for Gordon's first three-plus seasons with the Bulls and had some interesting comments on Wednesday.

"You could make a case, I may not be sitting here if it wasn't for Ben Gordon," Skiles said. "His rookie year, he single-handedly won so many games. I'm a huge, huge Ben Gordon fan.

"He's the most unique player I've been around. He can be out there for several minutes, and it seems like something's not going right for him. And bam, he can just score in bunches."

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Good for Skiles. He is so right though. I don't know how many people remember 2004-2005, but we started off TERRIBLE. I will give my man Diddy some credit, because he stuck by Gordon, after he had a weak preseason and a bad start his rookie year. We started 0-9 and then all of a sudden...BOOM! Ben Gordon turned it on. Once he got good, that team got good. They would be down so often and BG would turn it on and pull the team out of a deficit and when he got going, the team would get going. And like what, 14 games that year he hit game winners! We could of won 35 games that year, but won 47 because of Ben Gordon. That was a great season. He had an awesome rookie year and improved pretty much every year. SKILES...RESPECT

i always loved Skiles and that man-love continues to grow with this little news tid bit. He is very right about Ben

I remember that year vividly 0-9 start with Tim Ledger saying we would be one of the worst teams in the history of NBA. I wish someone rubbed it in his face on live tv

engies wrote:

i always loved Skiles and that man-love continues to grow with this little news tid bit. He is very right about Ben

I remember that year vividly 0-9 start with Tim Ledger saying we would be one of the worst teams in the history of NBA. I wish someone rubbed it in his face on live tv

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I'd be all for it, if it weren't for the fact that I would of agreed with him at the time! I would like to take a moment and recognize how horrible we were between 1999-2003:

2003-04 23 - 59 .280 8 (38 GB)
2002-03 NBA 30 - 52 .366 6 (20 GB)
2001-02 NBA 21 - 61 .256 8 (29 GB)
2000-01 NBA 15 - 67 .184 8 (37 GB)
1999-00 NBA 17 - 65 .207 8 (39 GB)
1998-99 NBA 13 - 37 .260 8 (20 GB)

We were TERRIBLE..we get Gordon and Deng and we had a nice little stretch of 45+ win seasons. Good scrappy teams!

That is nothing to be proud of. Paxson made an attempt to rebuild, the best he got was mediocre, with average to above average players. Nothing to brag about here...

houheffna wrote:

That is nothing to be proud of. Paxson made an attempt to rebuild, the best he got was mediocre, with average to above average players. Nothing to brag about here...

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Nothing to brag about? In 2 short years, he was able to put together a team that finally made Chicago proud again. We were a complete disaster for 6 years due to the idiocy and ego of Jerry Krause. Reinsdorf saw a dip in season ticket renewals, and he finally realized that Krause had to go. I will forever be grateful to Pax for the turnaround he ushered in with 2 consecutive good drafts and the removal of complete piles of crap like Eddie Robinson, J. Crawford, Trenton Hassell, etc. Hinrich, Gordon, and Deng all made 1st team All-Rookie. With the exception of Brand, I don't think another Krause pick from that era made first team all rookie, despite several top 4 picks. 47 wins is FAR from mediocre when you put it in context of the previous seasons 6 seasons.

One more thing for all the revisionist historians....Gordon clearly was the best player on that team. Those who argue that Deng had a better year are simply mistaken. It was reflected in the ROY voting:

Player Team 1st 2nd 3rd Points
Emeka Okafor Charlotte 77 40 9 514
Ben Gordon Chicago 43 73 9 443
Dwight Howard Orlando 6 11 98 161
Andre Iguodala Philadelphia 0 2 8 14
Luol Deng Chicago 0 0 1 1

Nothing to brag about? In 2 short years, he was able to put together a team that finally made Chicago proud again. We were a complete disaster for 6 years due to the idiocy and ego of Jerry Krause. Reinsdorf saw a dip in season ticket renewals, and he finally realized that Krause had to go. I will forever be grateful to Pax for the turnaround he ushered in with 2 consecutive good drafts and the removal of complete piles of crap like Eddie Robinson, J. Crawford, Trenton Hassell, etc. Hinrich, Gordon, and Deng all made 1st team All-Rookie. With the exception of Brand, I don't think another Krause pick from that era made first team all rookie, despite several top 4 picks. 47 wins is FAR from mediocre when you put it in context of the previous seasons 6 seasons.

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You are grading on a curve. The Lakers don't do it that way, neither do the Celtics. Bottom line is you build towards a championship, not just going to the second round of the playoffs. Krause was a disaster, but Paxson simply didn't do enough, and he knows it...he was frustrated because trades he wanted to make were rebuffed by ownership for various reasons or were turned away by GMs he was dealing with. But the bottom line is that Paxson built a core of guys who were not that good, and were not going to win a championship, which is why he was willing to blow it all up for Kobe.

People actually told you Deng was the best player that year? That is kind of shocking...

Really glad to see Skiles give BG some major props like this. What Skiles said is not hyperbole, it's fact. I'll never understand why Skiles persisted in starting Duhon ahead of BG all those games (it was inevitable that we'd fall behind and then play catch up with Gordon leading the way), but at least he recognizes the player Gordon was and is.

mlewinth wrote:

engies wrote:

i always loved Skiles and that man-love continues to grow with this little news tid bit. He is very right about Ben

I remember that year vividly 0-9 start with Tim Ledger saying we would be one of the worst teams in the history of NBA. I wish someone rubbed it in his face on live tv

Click to expand...

I'd be all for it, if it weren't for the fact that I would of agreed with him at the time! I would like to take a moment and recognize how horrible we were between 1999-2003:

2003-04 23 - 59 .280 8 (38 GB)
2002-03 NBA 30 - 52 .366 6 (20 GB)
2001-02 NBA 21 - 61 .256 8 (29 GB)
2000-01 NBA 15 - 67 .184 8 (37 GB)
1999-00 NBA 17 - 65 .207 8 (39 GB)
1998-99 NBA 13 - 37 .260 8 (20 GB)

We were TERRIBLE..we get Gordon and Deng and we had a nice little stretch of 45+ win seasons. Good scrappy teams!

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I agree we were in the past, but from memory (may be incorrect) alot of those 0-9 cames were close and Ledger was talking about that team itself as being the worst of all time. Obviously 17-65 was much worse in 2000. I remember even though we were 0-9 i knew the bulls had alot of good young pieces who showed promise, and that we would bounce back. I didnt expect it to be as good as it was, but i knew the future was still bright and we'd get at least close to the playoffs

houheffna wrote:

Nothing to brag about? In 2 short years, he was able to put together a team that finally made Chicago proud again. We were a complete disaster for 6 years due to the idiocy and ego of Jerry Krause. Reinsdorf saw a dip in season ticket renewals, and he finally realized that Krause had to go. I will forever be grateful to Pax for the turnaround he ushered in with 2 consecutive good drafts and the removal of complete piles of crap like Eddie Robinson, J. Crawford, Trenton Hassell, etc. Hinrich, Gordon, and Deng all made 1st team All-Rookie. With the exception of Brand, I don't think another Krause pick from that era made first team all rookie, despite several top 4 picks. 47 wins is FAR from mediocre when you put it in context of the previous seasons 6 seasons.

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You are grading on a curve. The Lakers don't do it that way, neither do the Celtics. Bottom line is you build towards a championship, not just going to the second round of the playoffs. Krause was a disaster, but Paxson simply didn't do enough, and he knows it...he was frustrated because trades he wanted to make were rebuffed by ownership for various reasons or were turned away by GMs he was dealing with. But the bottom line is that Paxson built a core of guys who were not that good, and were not going to win a championship, which is why he was willing to blow it all up for Kobe.

People actually told you Deng was the best player that year? That is kind of shocking...

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I don't think you're acknowledge the hole Paxson got the bulls out of. Our future looked a hell of a lot worse and usually gm's find it hard to totally blow up a team and build one that at least makes the playoffs

Sure we were not title contenders, but I think we were perhaps one player away from it. It had the perfect supporting cast to have around a star. Unfortunately Paxson didn't land any but we still had a 47 win season, 41 win season & a 49 win season. It did bring back some pride in the franchise. For a while alot of people were predicting the bulls as a future contender. Unfortunately they made a mistake in getting Wallace, and perhaps drafting Tyrus instead of LaMarcus (debatable) and it threw a wrench in that potential. Thank god it happened otherwise we wouldn't have got Derrick Rose

The bulls didnt make it past 2nd round, but at I'm always proud of how much they achieved and were over achievers. Skiles did a great job, and I think considering the major injuries the bucks had last year, he did a decent job of having them when 30+ games

I think Skiles is an excellent coach. I even believe if Skiles was coaching the Bulls last year they beat the Celtics...in 6.

That said, Paxson did an admirable job of breaking the team down and rebuilding. It was very well done. However, the goal is to win a championship. Anything short of that is failure. The Bulls were far short, as they were never contenders. They never got a franchise player or even an allstar. My expectations are a bit different from most of you on here. Paxson succeeded in building the Houston Rockets without Olajuwon. That simply isn't good enough. At their best, the Pistons chewed them up and spit them out in the second round. We should expect better from the Chicago Bulls.

I'll put it this way: in terms of winning a championship, yes the Bulls suck. But compared to where they were before 2004, the Bulls were great. Their games became watchable again. Paxson transformed the Bulls from the team with the least wins in a season to a team that got to the 2nd round in about 3 years, that's pretty darn impressive if you ask me. While that team never would have won a championship, they were a piece away and I firmly believe that. Without Gordon on the team, the Bulls are still probably a piece away from being a contender, but Gordon would have been a great asset for the team, either as part of that team, or for use in a trade to get said piece.

houheffna wrote:

I think Skiles is an excellent coach. I even believe if Skiles was coaching the Bulls last year they beat the Celtics...in 6.

That said, Paxson did an admirable job of breaking the team down and rebuilding. It was very well done. However, the goal is to win a championship. Anything short of that is failure. The Bulls were far short, as they were never contenders. They never got a franchise player or even an allstar. My expectations are a bit different from most of you on here. Paxson succeeded in building the Houston Rockets without Olajuwon. That simply isn't good enough. At their best, the Pistons chewed them up and spit them out in the second round. We should expect better from the Chicago Bulls.

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Considering the depths of suckitude that we were mired in for 6 disasterous seasons, I have a great deal of respect & admiration for Pax, Skiles as well. No we didn't win a championship, but it wasn't a failure. I can't look at every season as a failure if you don't win a championship. You know how depressing that would be as a fan? Sure I'm disappointed if we don't win a championship, but the thing is, you, just like me & many others who grew up in the Jordan era, have been completely spoiled by basking in the pleasure of 6 championships in 8 years while cheering for the GOAT, MJ. I know that can skew expectations a bit to where it becomes all or nothing. But I just tell myself how lucky I was to have experienced such a rare era of basketball that will probably never be repeated again.

I think you all think more of the Paxson era than Paxson does...

I don't expect to win a championship every year. A GM builds and rebuilds. Paxson tried to build...his plan failed. Mainly because the "character" players he drafted fizzled out and at times showed a lack of character.

I like Paxson, rooted for him to get the job. Don't believe he did as well as he could have.

My expectations are the same as Lakers fans, Yankee fans, Celtics fans, Steeler fans...I want championships. I feel the same way about any team I follow, Bears, White Sox, etc. I understand that its hard and teams fall short. I applaud the Bears accomplishments in the Lovie Smith era for example, but at one time under the current regime, the Bears were one of the best in the league. I can except that, but its not cool with me if you cannot contend after rebuilding for so long....

houheffna wrote:

I think you all think more of the Paxson era than Paxson does...

I don't expect to win a championship every year. A GM builds and rebuilds. Paxson tried to build...his plan failed. Mainly because the "character" players he drafted fizzled out and at times showed a lack of character.

I like Paxson, rooted for him to get the job. Don't believe he did as well as he could have.

My expectations are the same as Lakers fans, Yankee fans, Celtics fans, Steeler fans...I want championships. I feel the same way about any team I follow, Bears, White Sox, etc. I understand that its hard and teams fall short. I applaud the Bears accomplishments in the Lovie Smith era for example, but at one time under the current regime, the Bears were one of the best in the league. I can except that, but its not cool with me if you cannot contend after rebuilding for so long....

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It really is tough for me to say anything about Paxson that hasnt already been said. I really believe he was a fantastic GM and the public was very unfair to him. Infact, I met Paxson once, with Fred at ESPN's Lunch with a Legend and when he signed my autograph I said to him, "I know people are giving you a hard time and I just want you to know, I am a "real fan" and I think your doing fantastic." --made me feel good to say that to Pax.

Being a GM is not like a game of NBA Live. GM's have a few basic pricipals to live by:

1.) Draft Well -- Paxson did that, drafted Hinrich with the 7th pic in 2003, drafted Gordon and Deng in 2004, which brought what was a 30 win team the year before, to 47 wins and a 3rd seed berth. He did that with a team comprised of poor young guys (Tyson and Eddy) a mediocre PG and 2 rookies. I don't like the Tyrus move, but besides that, Joakim Noah is looking pretty damn good now. His only questionable move besides that was Thabo, but I will not shit on Paxson for a bad 16 pick.
2.) Get Free Agents. --- Ok, people are going to kill me on this, but after the 2nd year with our young playoff bound Bulls, we all thought we had a chance at being really good if we got a good center. Paxson cleared cap and got, who was the biggest Free Agent at the time, Ben Wallace. Look, I want you all to look into the mirror and tell me with a straight face, that you didnt think that was a good move when he did it. In Wallace's first year, we won 49 games, had a identiry asa a up and coming defensive team, things looked good. The Wallace experiment exploded into the disastourous following season and ended up unfolding into really what got us Derrick Rose. Now Paxson could not of forseen that, but seriously, hindsight is 20/20 and we all were excited about Wallace when he came here and didnt realize he was a pathetic whore.

3.) Make Smart Decisions with Regards to Trades. --- Again, people will kill me on this, but as a whole Paxson made no "bad" trades, He brought in Tim Thomas twice, but he quickly got rid of him and it was for the right reasons. People will say he should of made a trade, and that is ultimatly what did him in, his lack of doing that, but he coulda made alot of bad moves and he didnt. He didnt want to waste our cap on a player who wouldnt take us to the next level. Pau Gasol!? He would of taken us to the next level, but not nearly good enough to win a title. We would of been capped out and stuck with a 50 win team. KG, Kobe...I dont think those were ever real and honestly trading for a 32 year old KG would of made us good for a year and we would of fallen apart fast.

I think at the end of the day it was fans like some of you who just shat on Pax all the time and set your expectations too high!

dude..."shat"?

Wallace seemed like a good move at the time...that was Reinsdorf's move from what I am told, not Paxson's.

The move to get Garnett and Kobe were Pax moves. Went after Kobe twice. I have defended those moves constantly.

Gasol makes you good, KG? Kobe? Now you talking...those are studs.

The final results...that is what many execs are judged by and I think that is what he should be judged by.

I cannot give him an "A" when the team he constructed were never contenders.....

And tell your buddy to tell me if he is available for the draft October 18th at 7PM Central Time...