OT: Kobe

Treehorn

Well-known member
Joined:
Sep 14, 2012
Posts:
1,770
Liked Posts:
1,110
Location:
California
Are you kidding?

The ONLY other great player in the 90's other than MJ was Hakeem?

:obama:

Depends on your definition of great. Hakeem is top 10 all-time and only second to Jordan in the 90's. Who was even in the same class as those two?
 

BNB

Moderator
Staff member
Donator
Joined:
Jun 9, 2011
Posts:
14,896
Liked Posts:
7,749
Location:
Chicago
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  2. Oakland Raiders
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
Depends on your definition of great. Hakeem is top 10 all-time and only second to Jordan in the 90's. Who was even in the same class as those two?

So you need to be a top 10 player of all-time to be considered great?

Plus, David Robinson was great. Karl Malone was great. Shaq, John Stockton, Charles Barkley, Grant Hill before the injuries, Gary Payton, Patrick Ewing. In the early 90's, some of the greats from the 80's carried over and in the last few years of the 90's, some of the greats that played in the 00's began their careers. No, they weren't in their primes, but they were still pretty good. I'm not saying the guys mentioned were in the same class as MJ, but you don't need to be in order to be considered great.
 

Crystallas

Three if by air
Staff member
Donator
Joined:
Jun 25, 2010
Posts:
19,898
Liked Posts:
9,618
Location:
Next to the beef gristle mill
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Bulls
To be considered great, players need dat ESPN hype-train. It's like everyone has a short term memory. If a player doesn't have a 30-for-30 story on ESPN, they're suddenly a joke? This BS that the youngins like to spread about the 90s being weak, is a serious farse. The 90s was packed and stacked. It was so stacked, that great players were over-shadowed by even better players.
 

Treehorn

Well-known member
Joined:
Sep 14, 2012
Posts:
1,770
Liked Posts:
1,110
Location:
California
So you need to be a top 10 player of all-time to be considered great?

Plus, David Robinson was great. Karl Malone was great. Shaq, John Stockton, Charles Barkley, Grant Hill before the injuries, Gary Payton, Patrick Ewing. In the early 90's, some of the greats from the 80's carried over and in the last few years of the 90's, some of the greats that played in the 00's began their careers. No, they weren't in their primes, but they were still pretty good. I'm not saying the guys mentioned were in the same class as MJ, but you don't need to be in order to be considered great.

Well, yeah. Seriously all those players you named are not in the class of MJ and Hakeem. Shaq's first really dominant season was 99-00. Being a star versus truly being great are two separate things.
 

BNB

Moderator
Staff member
Donator
Joined:
Jun 9, 2011
Posts:
14,896
Liked Posts:
7,749
Location:
Chicago
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  2. Oakland Raiders
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
Well, yeah. Seriously all those players you named are not in the class of MJ and Hakeem. Shaq's first really dominant season was 99-00. Being a star versus truly being great are two separate things.

Again.... are you kidding?

He averaged 29/13 and shot 60% in his second season, and by his third season, he had the Magic in the finals. Three years earlier the MAgic were picking #1 overall.
 

Treehorn

Well-known member
Joined:
Sep 14, 2012
Posts:
1,770
Liked Posts:
1,110
Location:
California
Again.... are you kidding?

He averaged 29/13 and shot 60% in his second season, and by his third season, he had the Magic in the finals. Three years earlier the MAgic were picking #1 overall.

Where they were swept by Olajuwan and the rockets. Honestly if you think Shaq is an all-time great player this conversation is probably over and I am a Laker fan. Shaq repeatedly said Hakeem was better.
 

Treehorn

Well-known member
Joined:
Sep 14, 2012
Posts:
1,770
Liked Posts:
1,110
Location:
California
To be considered great, players need dat ESPN hype-train. It's like everyone has a short term memory. If a player doesn't have a 30-for-30 story on ESPN, they're suddenly a joke? This BS that the youngins like to spread about the 90s being weak, is a serious farse. The 90s was packed and stacked. It was so stacked, that great players were over-shadowed by even better players.

I guess you might be able to make an argument for individual players but overall the 80's had much better teams than the 90's. Remember at the end of the 80's the league expanded and added 4 new teams which weakened the depth of every team. There was more opportunity for very good players to be marquee players whereas in the 80's teams were stacked.
 

BNB

Moderator
Staff member
Donator
Joined:
Jun 9, 2011
Posts:
14,896
Liked Posts:
7,749
Location:
Chicago
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  2. Oakland Raiders
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
Where they were swept by Olajuwan and the rockets. Honestly if you think Shaq is an all-time great player this conversation is probably over and I am a Laker fan. Shaq repeatedly said Hakeem was better.

What in the fuck?

Did I say Shaq was better than Hakeem? No.

And being swept means Shaq wasn't great? I guess when the Cavs and LeBron were swept by the Spurs, LBJ wasn't great?

And you being a Laker fan means nothing. It seems like most Laker fans try to knock Shaq whenever possible because they are still being bitchy about the Shaq/Kobe situation.

Shaq is an all-time great. I don't care if Hakeem was better.
 

Treehorn

Well-known member
Joined:
Sep 14, 2012
Posts:
1,770
Liked Posts:
1,110
Location:
California
What in the fuck?

Did I say Shaq was better than Hakeem? No.

And being swept means Shaq wasn't great? I guess when the Cavs and LeBron were swept by the Spurs, LBJ wasn't great?

And you being a Laker fan means nothing. It seems like most Laker fans try to knock Shaq whenever possible because they are still being bitchy about the Shaq/Kobe situation.

Shaq is an all-time great. I don't care if Hakeem was better.

No, most Laker fans liked Shaq better....but it doesn't mean he was a player with great skill. Kobe was and is the better player. Kobe won that shit.

All-time Lakers:

1. Magic
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. Kobe
5. West
6. Baylor
7. Shaq
 

RamiTheBullsFan

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Apr 16, 2010
Posts:
9,505
Liked Posts:
1,745
No, most Laker fans liked Shaq better....but it doesn't mean he was a player with great skill. Kobe was and is the better player. Kobe won that shit.

All-time Lakers:

1. Magic
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. Kobe
5. West
6. Baylor
7. Shaq

I'd take 1999-2004 Shaq over 2005-2010 Kobe any day of the week. Not saying that Kobe isn't the better Laker (because of longevity with the team), but Shaq was just too dominant.
 

RamiTheBullsFan

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Apr 16, 2010
Posts:
9,505
Liked Posts:
1,745
Where they were swept by Olajuwan and the rockets. Honestly if you think Shaq is an all-time great player this conversation is probably over and I am a Laker fan. Shaq repeatedly said Hakeem was better.

Way more Laker fans love Kobe than Shaq. In fact, a lot of Lakers' fans hate Shaq. I'll assume you're one of those. Olajuwon is a better player than Kobe or Shaq and easily. No shame in losing to him.
 

Treehorn

Well-known member
Joined:
Sep 14, 2012
Posts:
1,770
Liked Posts:
1,110
Location:
California
I'd take 1999-2004 Shaq over 2005-2010 Kobe any day of the week. Not saying that Kobe isn't the better Laker (because of longevity with the team), but Shaq was just too dominant.

I could see that argument and many fans believe that. Kobe is just a more skilled player and like you said, longer at a high level. It is a shame that each of them only have 1 MVP, not sure how that happened.
 

Treehorn

Well-known member
Joined:
Sep 14, 2012
Posts:
1,770
Liked Posts:
1,110
Location:
California
Way more Laker fans love Kobe than Shaq. In fact, a lot of Lakers' fans hate Shaq. I'll assume you're one of those. Olajuwon is a better player than Kobe or Shaq and easily. No shame in losing to him.

Not really. I don't hate Shaq. I think most fans liked Shaq more but he got lazy, fat, and was a baby when it came to Kobe.
 

Anytime23

Boding Well
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '22
Joined:
Apr 17, 2010
Posts:
35,654
Liked Posts:
43,721
LOLOLOL

Shaq was one of the most dominant forces the NBA has ever seen. Double teamed throughout his career and he still put up great numbers. Sounds like a scorned lover to me.
 
Joined:
Sep 3, 2012
Posts:
2,705
Liked Posts:
271
Location:
Chicago
90s had alot of great teams. Can't forget the Knicks with Ewing/Starks giving the Bulls problems, there were those Magic teams with Penny, the Heat had some decent teams, and the Pacers were the ones that scared me the most besides the Jazz
 

The Hawk

Well-known member
Joined:
Jan 21, 2014
Posts:
18,007
Liked Posts:
1,682
Location:
Southern California
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago White Sox
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
West is often quoted as saying Kobe is the greatest Laker ever(I don't agree). Of the players I have seen with my own eyes year in and year out Kobe is top 5 or at least has to be in the conversation.

West is one of the truthfully nicest persons who ever played the game. It was he who convinced the Lakers to draft Kobe in the first place and has a very warm spot for him. But West is the LOGO of the NBA and was a truly tremendous player. He and Oscar were tremendous guards and when they played against each other it was truly awesome. It is too bad that they didn't get the exposure that the current day players do. Same thing with Wilt, Pistol Pete, Baylor, and Dr. J. It was these guys who really started the transformation of basketball into a fast paced exciting game before they handed the reins over to Magic, Kareem, and Bird.
 

RoseMVP1

Well-known member
Joined:
Jul 25, 2012
Posts:
3,966
Liked Posts:
989
Idc what anyone says about Kobe, leading the league in scoring at 36 after coming off an injury that ruins most peoples careers..that's damn impressive no matter what the amount of shots he takes is.
 

2323

New member
Joined:
May 26, 2013
Posts:
2,228
Liked Posts:
439
West is one of the truthfully nicest persons who ever played the game. It was he who convinced the Lakers to draft Kobe in the first place and has a very warm spot for him. But West is the LOGO of the NBA and was a truly tremendous player. He and Oscar were tremendous guards and when they played against each other it was truly awesome. It is too bad that they didn't get the exposure that the current day players do. Same thing with Wilt, Pistol Pete, Baylor, and Dr. J. It was these guys who really started the transformation of basketball into a fast paced exciting game before they handed the reins over to Magic, Kareem, and Bird.

The Lakers didn't draft Kobe.
 

Diddy1122

I ain't your pal dickface
Joined:
Mar 30, 2009
Posts:
4,459
Liked Posts:
1,155
Location:
Chicago
To be considered great, players need dat ESPN hype-train. It's like everyone has a short term memory. If a player doesn't have a 30-for-30 story on ESPN, they're suddenly a joke? This BS that the youngins like to spread about the 90s being weak, is a serious farse. The 90s was packed and stacked. It was so stacked, that great players were over-shadowed by even better players.

Exactly. 11 of the NBA's Top 50 players all-time were active during the 90's (Jordan, Barkley, Malone, Stockton, Olajuwon, Pippen, Ewing, Robinson, O'Neal, & Parish, granted in the bench warmer part of his career). Every one of those players is in the HOF, with exception of Shaq, who should be eligible I believe after next season. All of these guys played in an era without the hand check rule (when you could actually GUARD players on the perimeter), the 2-hands on the back rule, the clear path rule, and the list goes on and on and on.

Today's NBA is a bastardization of the truly great heyday of the 90's. Everything is geared toward increasing the scoring. In game interruptions that disrupt game rhythm are constant. The majority of players now are soft and pampered, complaining about playing too MANY minutes, crying at every little contact, and flopping around like dead fish to sell calls. In the 90's, flopping was considered a bush league tactic that most players rarely attempted. Sure there were a few guys who did it often & well (Stockton, Miller, Horry, & Divac) but it's was never so egregious that an entire RULE had to be created to stop it's rampant occurrences. A lot of these rule changes have made it difficult for me to watch games over the past 5 years or so. Refs make and break so many games now. You can tell by seeing who the crew is before a game whether it will be a whistle fest or not.
 

Top