Where do you rank Jon Lester among SP

TL1961 said:

I saw the post accusing people of it, but didn't see the posts where they actually did.

Unless I count you putting two-month Tanaka up there. If Tanaka was a Cub, and had that season, he wouldn't be in your top 20.

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All I know is he came back and pitched well when he didn't have to. To me that showed he was healthy and for the next three years I'd rather have him.

Kershaw
Sale
King Felix
Hamels
Price
Waino
Lester
I personally don't like Sherzer and think he is gonna implode soon.
Greinke potentially ahead of Lester
Verlander is on decline unfortunately
Tanaka and Darvish way to many injury concerns right now
Cueto had one year.

I will look it up later Brett.


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The Bandit said:

Cueto had one year.

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Cueto had one year of what?

In 2010, he had 31 starts good for a 3.64 ERA.
In 2011, he had 24 starts good for a 2.31 ERA.
In 2012, he had 33 starts good for a 2.78 ERA.
In 2013, he was hurt, still had 11 starts good for a 2.82 ERA.
In 2014, he had 34 starts good for a 2.25 ERA.

JimJohnson said:

Cueto had one year of what?

In 2010, he had 31 starts good for a 3.64 ERA.
In 2011, he had 24 starts good for a 2.31 ERA.
In 2012, he had 33 starts good for a 2.78 ERA.
In 2013, he was hurt, still had 11 starts good for a 2.82 ERA.
In 2014, he had 34 starts good for a 2.25 ERA.

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The argument of course is that his FIP in all those years was much higher including 3.30 in 2014 which really shouldn't be overlooked. Still I kind of like Cueto and he does eat innings. Better than Lester though? Highly debatable.

TC in Mississippi said:

The argument of course is that his FIP in all those years was much higher including 3.30 in 2014 which really shouldn't be overlooked. Still I kind of like Cueto and he does eat innings. Better than Lester though? Highly debatable.

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He's younger and hasn't been worked as much as Lester. You need to take that into account.

JimJohnson said:

He's younger and hasn't been worked as much as Lester. You need to take that into account.

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True but he's a right hander who peak earlier and don't, on average, age as well as left handers. Again highly debatable and not sure I want to. Both good pitchers. I'm glad we have Lester.

TC in Mississippi said:

True but he's a right hander who peak earlier and don't, on average, age as well as left handers. Again highly debatable and not sure I want to. Both good pitchers. I'm glad we have Lester.

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All I will say is that if the Cubs had Lester/Cueto as a 1/2, I would nut.

Czar Nicholas said:

Verlander is on the decline. Leyland taxed the shit out of that arm before he could even turn 30.

He is toast.


Getting back to Lester.
I would say Lester is in the top 10. In no particular order: Kershaw, Felix, Sale, Scherzer, Wainwright, Price, Lester, Darvish, Quintana, Zimmerman.

Fernandez is still up in the air after TJ.

Just because Lester is a Cub now doesn't mean he sucks all of the sudden....

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brett05 said:

I think in general there's about 12 or so pitchers that you take over the next three years over Lester. After that there is a group of guys like Fernandez, Gray, Ryu, Shark, Q, Gonzalez, Zimmermann that Lester falls into.

That's some pretty darn good company.

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Lester is better than everyone in that 2nd tier IMO. Maybe Fernandez is better but I'm holding off on that. Too early to say

JimJohnson said:

All I will say is that if the Cubs had Lester/Cueto as a 1/2, I would nut.

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Yeah that'd be great. I don't see the Reds affording him, and I think they will trade him at the deadline because they won't be in contention

TL1961 said:

Price must be damn good to finish on the top of the list of lefties, and also the righties.

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meant Shields...6 AM posts are sketchy at best.

We still have to see how he translates into the NL. To boot the Central has only 1 LH starting pitcher I believe (Liriano) so seeing how the lion share of the games the NL central will see will be a steady diet of RH SP. Then put a top 5 LH ace type into that mix...ya he could just dominate the division.

Top 5-10

CSF77 said:

meant Shields...6 AM posts are sketchy at best.

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I figured, but couldn't resist.

dabears253313 said:

Top 5-10

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You're delusional if you really think this. Unless you're a troll. Then well played.

Zvbxrpl said:

You're delusional if you really think this. Unless you're a troll. Then well played.

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A troll? This is a Cubs board with Cubs fans. I don't think you really know what a troll is.

JimJohnson said:

A troll? This is a Cubs board with Cubs fans. I don't think you really know what a troll is.

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Delusional cubs fans if they think Lester is a top 5-10 pitcher.

Zvbxrpl said:

Delusional cubs fans if they think Lester is a top 5-10 pitcher.

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Which team do you support? All I've seen you do is post negativity about the Cubs. So you mentioned the word "troll" earlier and that's starting to be an apt description of you.

Pitchers from the AL have dropped a gull run in ERA in the past by movin to the NL. He had a 2.46 ERA in the AL.

FIP ranking for 2014:
Kershaw 1.81
Kluber: 2.35
King Felix:2.56
Sale: 2.57
Garrett Richards: 2.60
Phil Hughes: 2.65
Jordan Zimmerman: 2.68
David Price: 2.78
Lester: 2.80
Quinta: 2.81

That is a realistic top 10 for 2014.

Zvbxrpl said:

Delusional cubs fans if they think Lester is a top 5-10 pitcher.

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Im hammered but is this Pat?

JimJohnson said:

Which team do you support? All I've seen you do is post negativity about the Cubs. So you mentioned the word "troll" earlier and that's starting to be an apt description of you.

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I love the cubs.

I'm also a realistic fan. I believe in critiquing shitty management and shitty moves. Nowhere on my cubs fan card does it say I have to love and slurp every move.......

I'm excited about this team going forward. I don't believe in spouting off nonsense about projections, about who is going to succeed based off of one year or sabremetric projections.

I believe in whats in front of me and base my opinions on observations.

I detest meatballs and their stupid opinions. I have no problem telling them they're Special person.

I think Jon Lester is a fantastic pitcher and am glad we have him. I also think there are 14 pitchers better than him that I would rather have, but that's fine because there are teams out there in way worse situations without 1 TOR pitcher, a must sign I can check off.

So yeah. Call me jaded. I'm not all sunshine, lolly pops and rainbows. Being a bears fan, 'winning the offseason' means nothing to me, which is arguably what the cubs and Chisox are the toasts of the town for.

I think this team is still many pieces short of the team in Missouri taking us seriously. Need better LF, which I'm curious to see what happens as Ruggiano was just dealt. Still need another SP, and you know what--if the Scherzer market fades--throw a hat in the ring. Don't be afraid of Scott Boras. After all, if Bryant pans out--who do you think you're going to negotiate an extension with?

Im hammered but is this Pat?

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So am I.....

What tipped you? And why didn't you figure it out sooner? I figured you'd have pegged me by writing style and my preference of Chris Sale.

And what are you drinking? Me? Homemade brew. Because Three Floyds decided to get expensive, but equipment and ingredients to clone the beer became cheap and easy.......sooooo yeah.

And no, I wont turn my account over to KB this time.....so don't get your panties in a bunch.....something tells me the entire hen house will at the mention of his name. He's gone beyond reality and straight up just argues to argue now when he had great points. He'll still lighten up when they start winning......