Scherzer/Zimmerman

chibears55

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Max Scherzer supposedly close to signing with Nationals

Talks emerged again that jordan Zimmerman may be traded afterwards. ..

hopefully the cubs are on the phone looking to see if they can make a deal here..
 

Shawon0Meter

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Nats are also willing to trade Strasburg if they don't get what they want for Zimmerman (obviously IF they get Scherzer)....according to Jon Morosi of Fox Sports
 

beckdawg

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I don't typically like to gloat here but this is pretty much exactly what I said would happen even so far as the Strasburg availability. That being said, I'm not exactly sure how you work a trade at this point because the cubs already are pretty full of pitchers after also signing Hammel. You'd likely need to accompany it with at least a trade of Jackson and probably also find some way to move Wood. Clearly they have the ammo to do it and given the other moves made there are some interesting possibilities. For example, if Span were also worked into the deal you could ad basically what the cubs have been looking for. In fact as a third party in the trade you wouldn't necessarily even have to come away with Stras/Zim to make it a successful trade if you aren't giving up a ton.

I've long said trading Baez to the nationals made a great deal of sense if they view him as a SS to replace Desmond. You're probably talking about something like Baez/Edwards/1-2 lessor parts. If you add Span into that you're probably talking about another Dan Vogelbach level player. Ideally, you'd be able to work Wood/Jackson into the trade so you didn't have to make other moves with this but I'm not really sure how you'd do that.

Overall, I think given the other moves the cubs have made it's less likely they would do this. I'd love to see them pull off a trade to grab Strasburg I'm just not entirely sure how you make it work.
 

chibears55

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Id like to think there a good reason why they haven't pulled the trigger on any trades involving MLB players yet ( Castillo, Wood, Jackson, etc. )...

Im hoping it because they waited to see if they can be used in deals to improve the 25 man roster...( OF, SP )
 

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Why would you trade away Edwards? Egads, man.
 

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If they got a 26 year old Stephen Strasburg why wouldn't you trade him? Keep in mind Edwards himself is 23.
You're trading for a guy who hasn't been the most durable and his contract is up soon with Boras as his agent. He won't be available in the thick of the upcoming competitive Cubs years. I can't imagine why I wouldn't trade for this guy.
 

chibears55

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You're trading for a guy who hasn't been the most durable and his contract is up soon with Boras as his agent. He won't be available in the thick of the upcoming competitive Cubs years. I can't imagine why I wouldn't trade for this guy.
They would trade for Zimmerman over stratsburgh...
Cost less
 

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Let alone they loaded up on hitting in the MiLB. They need pitching. Why give any away? That's what the bats in the system are for at the moment.
 

JimJohnson

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They would trade for Zimmerman over stratsburgh...
Cost less

I would take Zimm anyday of the damn week over Strasburg. I'm fucking over pitchers with durability concerns. Cubs fan have dealt with enough of that shit in the past decade. I fucking cry everytime I think of Prior and what could have been.

And with Zimm, the Cubs should do whatever it took to land him short of trading our top 3 stud hitting prospects. Lester, Zimm, Ariata, and then maybe Price in the future? World Series right there folks.
 

beckdawg

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You're trading for a guy who hasn't been the most durable and his contract is up soon with Boras as his agent. He won't be available in the thick of the upcoming competitive Cubs years. I can't imagine why I wouldn't trade for this guy.

You realize the irony here right?
 

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I wonder if Cubs could get a 3rd team involved here. Nats need to move Zimm and their SS Desmond. Wonder if Cubs could trade them Castro (who is signed through 2019 for a reasonable price) and a young pitching prospect for Zimm. Then Nats ship out Desmond to a 3rd team in exchange for a couple prospects.
 

beckdawg

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I'm fucking over pitchers with durability concerns.

The past 3 seasons he's pitched 159.1, 183.0, and 215.0 innings. Sure he tore his UCL and had Tommy John so have numerous other pitchers who've gone on to have successful careers afterwards. Strasburg is 26 compared to the 29 Zimmerman will be. Strasburg's career k/9 and bb/9 are 10.34/2.30 compared to 7.45/1.84 for Zimmerman. Strasburg's ERA/FIP/xFIP are 3.02/2.84/2.73 to Zimmermans 3.24/3.31/3.52. In statistical measure you want to go with Strasburg is the "better" pitcher. Even if you want to talk about "injury concerns," the past 3 seasons Strasburg has thrown 557.1 innings compared to Zimmermans 608.2. So you're talking about the difference of 7-8 starts over 3 years.

People are welcome to their own opinion but I'll take the next 7-8 years of Strasburg(26-34) compared to the next 7-8 for Zimmerman(29-37)
 

chibears55

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The past 3 seasons he's pitched 159.1, 183.0, and 215.0 innings. Sure he tore his UCL and had Tommy John so have numerous other pitchers who've gone on to have successful careers afterwards. Strasburg is 26 compared to the 29 Zimmerman will be. Strasburg's career k/9 and bb/9 are 10.34/2.30 compared to 7.45/1.84 for Zimmerman. Strasburg's ERA/FIP/xFIP are 3.02/2.84/2.73 to Zimmermans 3.24/3.31/3.52. In statistical measure you want to go with Strasburg is the "better" pitcher. Even if you want to talk about "injury concerns," the past 3 seasons Strasburg has thrown 557.1 innings compared to Zimmermans 608.2. So you're talking about the difference of 7-8 starts over 3 years.

People are welcome to their own opinion but I'll take the next 7-8 years of Strasburg(26-34) compared to the next 7-8 for Zimmerman(29-37)
Problem is , he would cost the cubs way more in specs then Zimmerman would..

I just dont see theo and jed ready to unload numerous top specs just yet..
 

beckdawg

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Problem is , he would cost the cubs way more in specs then Zimmerman would..

That's speculation. I mean you are likely right he costs more but would Strasburg cost more than David Price who was dealt under similar circumstances at the deadline which is typically thought of as a more expensive time to deal? If you're talking about that deal it was essentially Drew Smyly, Willy Adames and Austin Jackson as the cost to detroit. If you go with Shark's cost it was Russell, Straily and McKinney. I honestly don't see Zimmerman being much cheaper than those trades and I don't see Strasburg being grossly more expensive. You're likely talking about the addition of maybe 1 more player and probably more of a middling guy like Vogelbach rather than the addition of someone like say Russell.

Also keep in mind how few teams you're even talking about having the requisite top 20ish prospect needed to construct any sort of deal. Maybe Zimmerman could be had for more of a deal of say two top 75 players not necessarily a top 20. But in the cubs case you're probably talking about giving up someone like Baez anyways given their depth there. So, from their perspective if you're trading someone that high anyways you may as well be getting the best player you can.
 

JimJohnson

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The past 3 seasons he's pitched 159.1, 183.0, and 215.0 innings. Sure he tore his UCL and had Tommy John so have numerous other pitchers who've gone on to have successful careers afterwards. Strasburg is 26 compared to the 29 Zimmerman will be. Strasburg's career k/9 and bb/9 are 10.34/2.30 compared to 7.45/1.84 for Zimmerman. Strasburg's ERA/FIP/xFIP are 3.02/2.84/2.73 to Zimmermans 3.24/3.31/3.52. In statistical measure you want to go with Strasburg is the "better" pitcher. Even if you want to talk about "injury concerns," the past 3 seasons Strasburg has thrown 557.1 innings compared to Zimmermans 608.2. So you're talking about the difference of 7-8 starts over 3 years.

People are welcome to their own opinion but I'll take the next 7-8 years of Strasburg(26-34) compared to the next 7-8 for Zimmerman(29-37)

Appreciate the stats but I'll take Zimm. When you listed career ERA, the difference is that Strasburg's first 2 years in the league were his best years whereas Zimm's first 2 years were his worst years. Zim has basically gotten better each year he's been in MLB and is coming off a career best 2.66 ERA where Strasburg has basically done the opposite and has been above a 3 ERA in each of his last 3 seasons.

Zimm is 28, not 29. Only a 2 year age gap.
 

beckdawg

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Appreciate the stats but I'll take Zimm. When you listed career ERA, the difference is that Strasburg's first 2 years in the league were his best years whereas Zimm's first 2 years were his worst years. Zim has basically gotten better each year he's been in MLB and is coming off a career best 2.66 ERA where Strasburg has basically done the opposite and has been above a 3 ERA in each of his last 3 seasons.

Zimm is 28, not 29. Only a 2 year age gap.

Zimmerman will be 29. Stras will be 26 to start next year. Also as for improvement you don't think Strasburg can improve in the same years Zimmerman did? You're power curve for players tends to peak in the 29 year range. In other words, I'd expect Strasburg to be better over the next 4-5 years and I'd expect Zimmerman to decline over those years from what they are today.
 

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You realize the irony here right?
Irony would mean that Edwards has already had TJ surgery. Unfortunately for you that trumps any bunk scout speech suggesting Edwards is too thin to be durable.
 

JimJohnson

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Zimmerman will be 29. Stras will be 26 to start next year. Also as for improvement you don't think Strasburg can improve in the same years Zimmerman did? You're power curve for players tends to peak in the 29 year range. In other words, I'd expect Strasburg to be better over the next 4-5 years and I'd expect Zimmerman to decline over those years from what they are today.

LOL dude, Zimm's birthday is May and Stras is July. Zimm is 2 years and 2 months older than Strasburg. Come on bro, stop trying to play it off like its 3 years, LMAO.

I completely disagree with your logic on improve/decline with regards to these players. Zimm may not improve much from the 2.66 ERA, hard to keep getting better than that. I'm not sure what leads you to believe that Strasburg will improve going forward when he hasn't shown signs of that. A power curve for players is just a generalization and may or may not apply to Strasburg. There is no specific evidence to suggest he will get better from here.

As someone already mentioned, Strasburg is represented by Boras so you're probably looking at a long-term deal in the $23-$25 mil per year which is crazy for a guy who's arm could blow up at anytime.
 

beckdawg

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Irony would mean that Edwards has already had TJ surgery. Unfortunately for you that trumps any bunk scout speech suggesting Edwards is too thin to be durable.

Irony being both have concerns. You're feelings of TJ might warrant more concern if Strasburg hadn't pitched over 500 innings the past 3 seasons at 3 ERA. Could he tear his UCL again? Sure. Could Edwards issue harm him likewise? Sure. I also feel you're drastically underselling the fact that Edwards at 23 has yet to throw a pitch above AA. Full disclosure, I actually like Edwards as a player. So this isn't a case of me throwing someone I dislike under the bus. However, you're talking about 3 years difference between the two and Strasburg has already performed at a major league level quite well.

Additionally, you're not talking about a case like Shark where you're trading for a 29 year old pitcher. You're talking about a 26 year old who while you will have to extend him likely for large money will still be pitching over his prime years for that contract. As a corollary compare him to signing David Price as a FA next year. Price will be 30 years 7 months to start 2016. If we use Lester's contract as a guide would you rather pay Price 6 years $155 mil for 31-ish through 37-ish or would you rather pay Strasburg the same for 28ish through 34-ish?

So, I really fail to see why Edwards is untouchable in your mind. Strasburg if healthy still accomplishes the same goal of being productive on a similar timeline to the cubs hitting prospects. The one difference here being that he's already proven to be a high caliber starter at the major league level. If the cubs could get away with swapping him and Johnson then fine I'd do that. But most of the scouting reports I've read on him think even if he does stick as a starter he's at best a 3 maybe a low end 2.
 

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