Derrick Rose is the Bulls problem

when ppl ripped rose for not being aggressive

it was his demeanor on the court he acted like he gave zero fucks...he would dribble up the court, pass off to Noah, then go stand in the corner

now it seems all criticism of him not caring about basketball got to him and hes like "ok fuck it, imma gonna shoot every time down now"

i get hes working his way back but like hue said he needs to realize when its not working and adjust....just because he missed 2 years doesn't give him a pass to revert to highschool level basketball IQ

also drive and kicks to Noah are not good plays

Pressure makes diamonds. Said the simple minded buffoon.

houheffna said:

Don't agree. Dude should have brought his ass back on the court when advised to. Then that excuse couldn't be used. But if he is going to go out on the court and play...he is a point guard. He should go out there and put his team in the best position to win offensively. When his shot isn't going...get others involved.

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There is absolutely no guaranteeing that if he came back "when advised to" 2 freaking years ago that it would have made a major difference. The "what ifs" in that scenario are too great to make that assumption. I think it's high time we put this whole "Rose should have played 2 years ago when cleared" to rest.

I watched plenty of nights when Jordan couldn't hit his shot...he went to the basket...relentlessly. Rose has to do that...but then again he doesn't have to do that. Butler was doing it.

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Once again this proves my point of "damned if you do damned if you don't" when it comes to Rose. His shot hasn't been falling and he's attacking all the time now. When he didn't do it early in the season & was deferring a lot trying to be that "point guard", it was "Rose doesn't give a fuck about the team". Now he's attacking more and its once again "Rose doesn't give a fuck about the team." It's this vicious cycle that turns with every performance he has. Yes he has Butler who can attack as well, but he can't take everyone off the dribble. Rose is a player who can do that & the team is at its BEST when he is. Like I've been saying all season & what you even said up there, he has to learn when to pick his spots.

When I read certain posters stating that Butler's role should be reduced offensively, or Pau shouldn't be allowed to post when certain players are on the floor...I just shake my head. Crazy bad analysis there.

Rose is playing bad basketball mentally out there, that includes the Golden State game. He is like 20 for 60 from the field over his last two games. Sometime amidst shooting 60 damn shots it should trigger that what he's doing ain't working right now and he has other players that can get it done until he gets his game back in top shape.

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I agree on the bad analysis part & that Rose isn't playing well right now. But let's look at that GS game. It is the oddest performance I've ever seen in my 30 years of watching the game. Yea he took a ton of shots. The team was also playing without it's leading scorer so he kind of had to. Yes he turned the ball over a lot. That was him getting in the air and making bad decisions but he was TYRING to get others involved while he was attacking. Then after all that, he hits the biggest shot of the game. Oh and plays great D on Curry to top that off in the second half, which is when he starting missing a good deal of shots. It's hard for me to call that a bad performance but it was definitely an odd one.

Myself personally, I am not going to get super high on Rose's performance or super low because I fully realize this year is going to filled with ups and downs in his play. It's a natural thing when you haven't played competitively for years. If the team & Rose get to a good place by April, we have a legitimate shot at the title. That is all I care about. All this bitching and complaining right now has gotten tiresome to me.

Rose had one dominant trait when he was drafted, freakish athleticism. He no longer has that. He's still, a good athlete, no longer a great one. His problem is that his skill level (shooting, passing, defense, etc.) can't compensate for his decreased athleticism. Unless he, magically, becomes more athletic or polishes his skills, this is the new Rose. An inefficient, streaky gunner who plays poor defense. He has two more years on his contract after this one and he's untradeable. I guess we better get used to it.

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we need to call it like it is, he doesn't want to be shown up by the younger guys. He was out for 2 years, in that time guys like Lillard, Wall, Irving, and Curry have really started to come up. People started talking about them more and moving them up the PG ladder.

Rose wants to go out there and try to prove that he's still better than those guys. It can't be denied because you can tell by his intensity. He played his heart out against Curry then didn't do much against Clarkson/Lin.

I'm not going to say that's the main problem for the Bulls. I just wish he would come out with the intensity that he does against great PGS against EVERYONE. Noah may be the true leader, but Rose is the best player. He needs to set the tone and get others going.

I kinda wonder if the bulls laziness vs the lottery teams is them Greg Popovich'ing their season. Obviously Thibs is not going to cut their minutes, so maybe they are just realizing that they should just save their best for the best.

Its kinda ironic, because if their minutes were cut and they lost we would all applaud it.

1ke said:

Why couldn't this thread be made after he made the GW shot against GS?.......

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There was a similar one.

RoseMVP1 said:

we need to call it like it is, he doesn't want to be shown up by the younger guys. He was out for 2 years, in that time guys like Lillard, Wall, Irving, and Curry have really started to come up. People started talking about them more and moving them up the PG ladder.

Rose wants to go out there and try to prove that he's still better than those guys. It can't be denied because you can tell by his intensity. He played his heart out against Curry then didn't do much against Clarkson/Lin.

I'm not going to say that's the main problem for the Bulls. I just wish he would come out with the intensity that he does against great PGS against EVERYONE. Noah may be the true leader, but Rose is the best player. He needs to set the tone and get others going.

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Rose isn't even the "best" player anymore. He's the biggest star though. But there's a massive difference.

AirGordon7 said:

when ppl ripped rose for not being aggressive

it was his demeanor on the court he acted like he gave zero fucks...he would dribble up the court, pass off to Noah, then go stand in the corner

now it seems all criticism of him not caring about basketball got to him and hes like "ok fuck it, imma gonna shoot every time down now"

i get hes working his way back but like hue said he needs to realize when its not working and adjust....just because he missed 2 years doesn't give him a pass to revert to highschool level basketball IQ

also drive and kicks to Noah are not good plays

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Rose needs to get others involved, so they stay involved and not out of the flow of the "offense" by the time Rose cools off. And then by getting others involved, things open up for him in addition to getting others going.

But one of the problems is, with this level of selfishness, by the time he realizes there's no shot for himself, the defense has collapsed on him and there are no longer any passing angles to set up teammates. He's not functioning at all with the idea that he's trying to set up others.

To be honest, I'm not sure if Rose has it in him to play the way he needs to. If they start running the offense through Gasol, I can also see Rose going into pout mode. It's like he's not enough of a professional to play hard unless the conditions are agreeable to him.

I have to wonder if Rose holds a grudge for the injury against Philly when Thibs left him in the game unnecessarily. He might be justified in being bitter but at the same time, he makes too much money to do his own thing if that's not what's necessary for the team to achieve long term success and he's useless if he's not helping the Bulls.

I've seen comments about his athleticism being diminished. Maybe it's hard to tell with so much time elapsing but I think he looks like he used to. It's just he's always had this AAU style of play and this made more sense with the 2011 team than it does for the current roster. Rose needs to be a pro in this respect but he's not doing it. He can't do it all by himself and he's not making others better. So where does that leave the Bulls.

I also have to think there's a rift between him and his teammates. They defend him publicly because that's what good teammates do but I don't see how they can unquestioningly can continue putting blind faith in him. The 2011 team had a lot of blue collar guys doing the dirty work (Bogans, Brewer, Deng) but now in order for guys to contribute they need to be involved in the offense. But, just so Rose can dominate the ball, they're being asked to forego how they can contribute so Rose can selfishly put up numbers.

The one good thing about this is Gasol is probably used to something like this from playing with Kobe s many years. But the ball needs to move around more for the other talent to be optimized. But Roses AAU style is the opposite of that.

2323 said:

Great post. You better ready yourself for the bucket brigade throwing excuses on your negative comments about Rose.

I agree with practically everything you said. Rose is still playing like its 2011 and he was almost exclusively the scoring option. But things have changed and his failure to recognize this stems from combination of him being selfish and stupid. He's not making others better. It's an odd mix seeing his AAU style of play trying to mesh with the infusion of offensive skill that's been added. And guys are deferring to Rose --they probably don't have a choice--but you can't legitimately argue that they're involved in the offense with Rose playing as you discussed. It's like Rose is playing for team Rose when everyone else is playing for each other. The other players have offensive skill. The ball needs to move around and there are guys who can facilitate this but it's wasted largely because of how Rose plays.

It's a frustrating thing. He heavily brands him self as a son of Chicago and a lot of people love this. But the sentiment for this narrative isn't allowing them to be honest about admitting what you're saying. A lot of people think Rose is the Bulls. Not the case. And sorry but I like the Bulls more than I like Rose. It's not even close really. People want a lot of his flaws to be taboo. There's not a lot of intellectual honesty taking place as a result. Either that or there isn't a lot of intellect involved with these people. Either way, it's a frustrating topic with Rose. They should probably let him raise his value then trade him. But it's doubtful they'll do that. We're probably stuck with enduring the frustrating play that you're discussing here.

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I appreciate your insightful response. I too love the Bulls and feel that Rose will be the impediment to their ultimate goal this year. I cannot see the Bulls winning much of anything with this version of Rose as their starting point guard.........big shame!! Maybe with more honesty from the fan base the info will trickle down to the organization and then him. But I doubt it..........................

I don't understand the fascination of over critiquing this team broke the fucking all star break hits.

Is pretty obvious they are trolling the fuck out of some of you. Bond of this shit matters.

Come late March, and April, they'll be different and they be ready for the playoffs. Which is all that really matters.

Diddy1122 said:

Yes and that takes TIME. This notion that he would come back to the court after 2 years away from it & miraculously be back to that level consistently was extremely naive thinking on most fans parts. Not saying that's specifically you but I've seen more than enough posters on here that had that mentality. Nothing I've seen from Rose this year has surprised me. He's trying to find his way back into the league & how he can be that MVP-type player but incorporate all the new weapons he's never had a chance to play with.

But every day it's "Rose fucking blows" or "Rose is getting back to MVP level" or "Rose is being a selfish fuck". The dude hasn't played for 2 years. Calm the F down people.

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And maybe if other players would step up, he wouldn't have to press so hard. The other players are NOT doing anything to where Rose doesn't feel he needs to carry the team. This includes Thib's, imo.

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AirGordon7 said:

thats how it is lol

this thread is fair....Rose is/has been playing real selfishly and needs to cool it

hes trying too hard to prove himself and its hurting the team

plus there is no excuse for the ill advised 3's he takes

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He did have a stretch not too long ago that he was shooting 58% from the 3 with a good amount of attempts. You can't blame him when things are down and not acknowledge when he's doing well.

I see it as Rose finding his way offensively. He has always kinda been a hog, this is nothing new. But I think he needs to get used to Jimmy and his new found scoring ability. He was probably braced for Pau doing his thing, but not Jimmy. The main problem is the team not really playing defense and that starts with effort. That effort comes and goes.

Bear Pride said:

And maybe if other players would step up, he wouldn't have to press so hard. The other players are NOT doing anything to where Rose doesn't feel he needs to carry the team. This includes Thib's, imo.

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Leadership is the ability to influence and motivate others to action.


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Is that why they were so great last year without him?

ChiSoxCity said:

Leadership is the ability to influence and motivate others to action.


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Cue Thib's ... "WE need to play with more effort". :smh:

Bear Pride said:

And maybe if other players would step up, he wouldn't have to press so hard. The other players are NOT doing anything to where Rose doesn't feel he needs to carry the team. This includes Thib's, imo.

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Thibs has a paradox. If he takes the ball out of Rose's hands, Rose goes into pout mode.

Edit--I knew it was only a matter of time before the apologists start chiming in.

I predicted all of this over two years ago. Sadly, things will have to play out over the next two years before Bulls nation is ready to embrace change.


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2323 said:

Thibs has a paradox. If he takes the ball out of Rose's hands, Rose goes into pout mode.

Edit--I knew it was only a matter of time before the apologists start chiming in.

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Who is Rose supposed to dish the ball to that is gonna shoot a whole lot better than him? Kirk? Teams are packing the paint cuz no one is hitting the shot. This falls on Thib's. He's got to put in some shooters for Rose to be able to dish to someone that can actually hit an outside shot. Who is Rose supposed to dish the ball to, I'd like you to explain this to me.